The big punch

[25yearsmlc]

mykarma,

This will be a very long one but I think it's my last for awhile. I hope this helps b/c I fear that you're letting it go in one ear and out the other, figuratively speaking. Just a gut instinct telling me that, (and you saying you are feeling depressed and hopeless, etc) It's sort of a "Man Up" pep talk but with some specifics. Your fear based approach to all of this, and life in general, has cost you so much. I hope that you change that dynamic.

Thanks for reading and answering what you answered. But I can sit here and write down what I think you need to do, and you may even agree, but if you don't somehow get yourself to change behaviors, then nothing will change.

"Fake it til you make it", sounds gimmicky but a lot of studies show that it helps. So ACT the way you want to feel, and eventually you'll get there. I like to say "where the head goes, the heart will follow." Whatever works, do it.

You say you are less needy, and I hope that's true, but then you say you are prone to giving up hope and feeling depressed again. You seem to think your emotions are beyond your control. They are not. Re-read that last sentence please.

And the idea that the real underlying problem was that your w wanted you to be like her dad, but you could not, is vastly over simplifying.

You admit you had no conflict resolution skills and you were SO afraid of conflict. FWIW I am convinced that what conflict avoidant people fear, they actually bring about b/c of their inability to address it! IOW, it leads to MORE Conflict, not less. That's b/c the person is so conflict avoidant that they avoid working out even the most minor of uncomfortable things. Naturally Real issues get avoided like the plague, and do not magically go away by ignoring them. On the contrary, They fester & worsen....and blow up or create deep resentment that erodes trust, security and love. THE THING THEY FEAR THE MOST, THEY MAKE COME TRUE....You have to man up, however you can and whatever that looks like. Maybe she thought her dad was a good role model for you and maybe he is. WHATEVER, take a class or see a counselor for Conflict resolution. START LEARNING HOW TO DEAL WITH CONFLICT B/C IT'S A BASIC LIFE SKILL.

Regarding Role models...
A good friend of ours is a great father. But he himself had a terrible role model for fathering b/c he came from a lousy family (his own father had taken his own life! & that's a heavy burden!) So I wondered how our friend had become such a healthy well balanced dad/husband w/such a lousy role model. He told me that while he "knew what to avoid being like -ie his own father- he didn't know what to actually become like" as in, who to model himself after. It means you have to know more than just what to avoid.

We all need a positive role model b/c in times of crisis we revert to what we know, even if it's unhealthy. You have done just that, hiding and freaking out, and it seems you still do b/c you surrender to negative thoughts and emotions as if they're "landing" on you and you are helpless. you are not helpless. In our friend's case, it was his FIL whom he chose to emulate.
You had no positive role model to emulate, and your w suggested her dad. It was up to you to find a man you wanted to emulate, and up to both of you to learn conflict resolution.

I'm sorry your family got hurt too. You can talk to your L about having your parents around your d when they visit. In fact maybe it'll be a good chance for them to bond with her without w around. First you'll have lots of one on one time with D so you don't have to submit to your parent's views if you disagree with them. You are the only father this girl will ever have, so own and embrace that. It sounds as if trying to please everyone, (which is a form of conflict avoidance actually) as usual, pleased no one.
Regardless, Adopt whatever is workable from your FIL and use it. Find other men to help you with the rest, but for God's sake, don't stop looking around and learning what works and putting it in your life.
Put that in your action plan. Maybe join a club, support group or church where you can meet good family men.

Here are some more specific starting suggestions: Pick what you want, ignore the rest, etc.

1) No matter how bad you feel, you cannot show that to your w. Period. Those needs and negative emotions are all you represent to her so she does not need to see or hear of it anymore. Do NOT whine if she doesn't ask how you feel physically b/c you were sneezing or coughing. That reeks of weakness and childish whining. Handle it. Don't complain at all. In fact minimize it b/c hey, you're a tough guy, and coughs don't matter. Seriously, that's an easy fix. No whining.

Emotionally, do NOT complain about how you feel to your w. IT'S NOT ATTRACTIVE=does not work....It doesn't matter that you think she caused it (she didn't "cause it' anyhow, b/c remember, you are in charge of how you feel). What matters for now is that you want your w to be able to contact you, and talk, without her feeling uncomfortable. That means you have to meet your own needs, or keep them to yourself. Find a support group for men and join it. These groups exist.

2) INSTEAD, Be pleasant on the phone, upbeat, interesting, successful, and project a warm loving fatherly interest in your d. If this means you have to write notes to yourself about things to ask her that won't create tension, do so. [b]And listen to her responses to see if follow up questions make sense. Retain information. That's a conversational skill a lot of people lack.

3)[/b]Do NOT initiate R talk. If a negative memory surfaces or she faults you for something, you can Say "if I had it to do over again, I'd definitely do some things differently." This is a major statement to make in the event of R talk. Why? B/C by owning your flaws/mistakes, you effectively remove them from the table of discussion and from her microscope b/c if a problem is being worked on, it's NOT a problem anymore and there's nothing to talk about. Make sense? By owning the problems, you Don't fuel her negatives. You undermine/counter the negatives b/c you are addressing them. Make sense?

Your big fear is that she'll vent or attack you emotionally, or simply disconnect totally and never see you again (which isn't realistic since you have a D). But If she vents or attacks you, it's a great diffuser to say that back to her. Now, If you think she's dead wrong in her recall or interpretation of an event, you can say (without anger) "W, wow, I sure don't recall it that way at all. But I'm sorry you felt hurt."

But if you do recall being at fault in some respect, it's even better b/c you are totally stealing her thunder. You say something like "W, I remember that event. That's another example of something I'm working on. I'd do that way differently if I could do it over." End of comment. You don't go on and on about your remarkable changes and improvements, b/c you are showing her that there's not a lot to say about your flaw b/c hey, you're working on it. What's to say? It's being handled, it's diminishing in your life...it's not going to be a problem much longer....etc.
Got it?

Here's an example from my story that still amazes me in its' simplicity. H had paid the bills for 20 years but when he left he stopped paying them, and did not tell me. So I was overwhelmed and missed paying the utilities. Our electricity almost got cut off. I was very upset. On top of dealing with my job, our huge house HE HAD PICKED, the financial strain he caused by leaving and taking a 90% pay cut in, and leaving me with kids at home without a father....But I had a DB session before he called, and I vented and I had learned...so when I told h that the electric bill got paid and was almost cut off, he assumed I was going to berate him (which would have been true, but for the DB session). I said something like "that was a close one" and he said "well now you know what it's like to pay the bills b/c I've been doing it for two decades without any help!" And instead of taking his bait & yelling at him about being irresponsible and not telling me, etc.... I did a 180. I said "I know you have, and I want to thank you for that b/c it IS stressful."...he paused for probably 30 seconds and then said, "you're welcome." That was a big lesson for me and a turning point for us in how to handle things that could go a good way, or a really bad way. That 180 of mine produced small but immediate results.

Sometimes keeping our cool isn't easy at all. Sometimes it's dang hard. My h was NOT responsible when he left and he was selfish. I told my DB coach that hiding my anger from him at all times was "Mother Teresa hard" and she laughingly agreed...but dang, it works!
It made it possible to converse and that's a big starting point b/c without that simple skill, nothing else is achievable.


4) Start with reachable goals of -for example- asking her, or answering, 3 questions that are NOT conflict laden. CONVERSE briefly & pleasantly, then get to your D and YOU get off the phone. If you set this as a goal it's measurable and your goals have to be measurable. Being able to talk to the mother of your child without falling apart or fighting is your first goal.

Spending time with your d, is your second but over arching goal. (The first goal helps you attain your 2nd). Another opportunity for this might be with the meetings where you hand off your d, When you have to be around your w. Make those times count and that doesn't mean they have to be lengthy. But you have to look good and[b] be a man only a fool would leave. Or at least act like one for the minutes you are around her .[/b]

What has your L told you about time with your D? So, do you have a reasonable agreement with your wife now? What's stopping you from having that? It's NOT "acrimonious" or "fighting dirty" to fight to see your child. It's what loving fathers do to be with their child. ALWAYS be calm when you discuss it and if that's not possible, refer your w to her L and say you'll have to let the L's work it out...then drop it.

Also, I asked you a few questions you ignored, probably b/c you don't have an answer or lacked the time. But they are the "big picture" questions ALL LBSers must answer or they will remain LBSers....



So, how would being married to you today be different than being married to you before? If the answer is, "it wouldn't be very different" then your situation will not change or improve. Period. The WAS is usually not insane to leave, so if the factors that caused them to leave are still there, the insane thing is for the LBSer to think that doing the same behavior over and over again, will yield different results. In your case, you did nothing different in 09...so now, are you going to repeat that approach?

What are you bringing to the table as a man, (to any woman)? I mean, outside interests....for instance, I do theater and stand up comedy as avocations. (Yeah, I'm actually SO darn funny!!) I have a good income and love our kids, am interested in a variety of things and am never depressed for long. I refuse to be. When my father died, I did get depressed, as in clinically depressed. 6 weeks into that, our then 4 y/o d asked if I was "always going to feel sad" and the NEXT DAY I made an appointment with a shrink. Got on meds, temporarily, and I got better in a few weeks.

You know, our kids will lose me and their father someday. I like to think I modelled for them how to handle that grief. If you need help, you get it. But our pain is not eternal (it does get better with time and effort) and our pain is not fatal (we WILL get through this). These are things you have to believe about your life now.

And I don't know if you do. You swing from sounding really desparate in one thread to "starting to get it", in another. Mostly you sound very depressed and afraid. Your fears are almost crippling you. How much have you changed since this all began? You skimmed over the part about her leaving in 09 and you not changing. See, in her mind, you have had plenty of chances but you did nothing with them.

Mykarma, Why not seek out professional help? (Don't be offended by the question, it's coming from someone who has done so herself.) It would need to be something you did for your health & happiness and not b/c you want to get strategies to win her back. That's tactical, not true growth. And by your own assessment, you are predisposed to depression and anxiety. That "condition" went untreated for a decade and that has cost you something very dear to you-your marriage. You can get help or you can keep hoping and praying that everyone else will change...what makes the most sense to you?

Get some help. I am not a doctor but you have "permission" to do whatever it takes to function at your best. You sometimes seem to be barely hanging on and don't feel judged by me b/c--- I GET THAT....okay, been there, done that. Sometimes for me, taking a pill meant getting a night's sleep or not yelling uncontrollably at someone who really does not need to be yelled at, like a child or boss...or losing a job, or just letting your immune system rest so you can think straight. Just curious, If you don't get help now, what it would take for you to say you need it?

You need an action plan with some small goals, which serve larger over arching goals.

Really take time to assess your life now. Some people never do. They get left and act as if a tree limb fell on them, "it happened" and nothing gets learned. Maybe you will react that way, or maybe you won't.
Maybe you will Not let FEAR be your primary motivation in life, and maybe now you will Not choose to remain stuck, filled with self loathing and writhing in discomfort at the terrifying thought of owning your life and taking charge of it and full responsibility for it..OR, maybe you will choose to believe that you cannot change, remaining the same IS easier in the short run, so therefore all is lost....or you can take charge of your life.

Mykarma, what if your life were a novel? Who is writing yours? How is this chapter going? How would you like the next chapter to go, and how would you like the end of your novel to read?

Be the author of your life. Stop letting your fear of your w's reactions or your parents disapproval, or the guy down the street who thinks your clothes are sloppy or your car is too loud...Stop letting anyone else write in your novel. It's yours to write.

When you get better, & choose to take charge of your life, others won't mistreat you nearly so much, and if they do it won't destroy you. And you will become a much more attractive man and model for your d. You'll be happier. Do whatever it takes to be the author of your life and do it asap.


good luck