Recovering after a same sex affair - Part 4

[~ kd ~]

AJM, I'd be VERY interested in hearing your side and perspective.

Sorry for hijacking this thread, sparks. I've done a lot of Mars/Venus work (with a great Venus friend) and also have reviewed a lot of Robbins/Maddanes work. As Robbins likes to say "when does she need your full attention? All the f'n time!" lol. It's so true! And Mars just doesn't get it... And Venus doesn't get why Mars doesn't get it... :-)

Have you posted any of those feelings in your topics or elsewhere?

[OnMyWay]

Guys - I could give you a lot of feedback on this from the other side, but it seems a bit misplaced. maybe when you are farther along and working on reconciling, then I can give you some tips on what is wife rewriting past/justifying her actions and what things really hurt that guys do all the time. For now, it's not about the crap your wife put you through or the crap you put her through. It's not about dwelling on all the things you could have done differently. It's about figuring out who you are and who she is. About being the best version of yourself that you can, inspiring her to do the same, getting her to miss what you had, have hope for what could be.

We're solution oriented here. Take the feedback from the past and use it constructively or get it out of your head. Don't let it drag you down. Take what she says with a grain of salt. I started to type and was so fired up I got just thinking about the things H "did to me", the affair didn't even make the list. It was things like not buying flowers I like, handing me the baby and getting pissy if I pushed back (like, to take my shoes off and wash my hands when i walked in the door), wanting a medal for doing the laundry (but not giving me any warning, so half my stuff never made it in the wash) or dishes (but not realizing that I was cleaning every other room in the house on a regular basis)...yeah, cheating on me PERIOD, but especially while I was pregnant is on there...but there's a lot of goofy stuff that just wears on a girl.

I can really identify with WAWs. Men and women get in a bad cycle sometimes and it's just each partner getting a script into their head about not being appreciated and not feeling loved and valued. Women have too many roles as a mother/wife/employee/etc - it seems like wife usually gets the short end of the stick and the relationship goes south.

Just do the best you can, remember you're building your future. Talk to someone - for now here and a counselor, but later you need to open up to your wife or whatever women is in your life. Let each other in. That's the greatest gift you can give her, make her feel valued and treasured and safe. Women need to feel safe.

Thanks AJ! Like in our Ms, we get wrapped up in the minutia of our daily DBing. I, for one, think it is awesome having you here to give the W's perspective and that you are so willing to share. It is so different than most of us Hs, because your have a WAH, which is a whole different animal than the usual WAW. Don't hold back because you don't think you are relevant. Just the fact that your sitch is similar makes your "other-sided" voice valuable to us all.

[AJM80]

Ok, let me think about some issue/solution type things...I truly think part of the reason H cheated was because he knew how stressed and unhappy I was and wanted to either beat me to the punch or avoid a lifelong "unhappy marriage" like he'd seen a fam member live through since I wasn't leaving. Some communication, understanding, appreciation and time to reconnect were much needed.

[OnMyWay]

How is it you are able to be so honest with yourself? LOL. Honestly?

My wife isn't like that at all.

[sparks14]

remember your WAW isn't in a good place and that makes her a liar. So, when she goes off and starts spewing garbage, just remember you can't believe ANYTHING she says, ever. Period.

Very true, OnMyWay. I have to remind myself this all of the time. I need to keep up with my validation of her feelings, but there is definitely a balance there.

[sparks14]

It's not about dwelling on all the things you could have done differently. It's about figuring out who you are and who she is. About being the best version of yourself that you can, inspiring her to do the same, getting her to miss what you had, have hope for what could be.

We're solution oriented here. Take the feedback from the past and use it constructively or get it out of your head. Don't let it drag you down. Take what she says with a grain of salt.

Thanks, AJ. I do think it is very important to keep a balance here. I would be naive to think that everything that she is saying is bs. I am not perfect. There are some problems that we have had that I truly did not believe they were so critical. I do find value in listening to her interpretation of my fault's in our M. I may not believe all of them, but at least it gives me perspective on what is important to her right now.

I will keep validating her and will actively listen. If her biggest pain points are feeling unequal/unheard/caged, one of the best things I can do is be a great listener right now.

[sparks14]

AJM, I'd be VERY interested in hearing your side and perspective.

Sorry for hijacking this thread, sparks. I've done a lot of Mars/Venus work (with a great Venus friend) and also have reviewed a lot of Robbins/Maddanes work. As Robbins likes to say "when does she need your full attention? All the f'n time!" lol. It's so true! And Mars just doesn't get it... And Venus doesn't get why Mars doesn't get it... :-)

Have you posted any of those feelings in your topics or elsewhere?

KD - Thanks for stopping by. Feel free to hijack! I am constantly learning.

I do like your quote from Robbins. It is very true!

It is the same when my W presented me with the idea that she has felt unheard. I had no idea that she felt this way, yet it was the biggest reason for her escape. There were probably hundreds of times where I did not fully listen to my W and give her my full attention. My W provided some examples last week that blew my mind. They were little examples where maybe I was watching a game and she mentioned a conversation she had with a friend. I might have been half checked in. I even responded to her but would shortly go right back to the game I was watching. I just was not giving her my undivided attention. In typical Mars thinking, I had no idea.

Now that my M is in dire circumstances, I can not help but think that all of this could have been avoided if I really knew what my W was feeling. I just didn't get her hints. Now that I know what is important to my W, I think I can provide for her what she needs. Maybe I am trying to "fix" things in a typical Mars fashion. I don't know. I just find instances where my behaviors have let my W down. Since these are not good behaviors, and I never intended to let the woman that I love so dearly down, it seems natural that I would want to change these behaviors.

[sparks14]

Sorry for not posting more. I just have not really been up to it and needed a little break.

Last couples therapy was a continued discussion from the previous two. I am not sure why I chose not to journal it. I started off by reading something that I had prepared. I pretty much told her what I had been feeling here. How it was tough to be presented with the faults in our M, not really understanding that they existed until now, and then being told that it may be too late. I did accept my responsibility in the matter for not picking up that our M was in trouble. I also accepted my faults in not doing everything I could to keep our M strong.

"What is in the past cannot be changed. I can, however, learn from these experiences. I am at fault for not nourishing my M with W. I thought that my love for W was unconditional and always present. I foolishly thought that was all that was needed to keep us going. I now understand that love is not a wispy feeling. Love is an action. Love is a movement. I failed in not understanding W better. Not taking the time to show her love on her terms, rather than what I thought showed love. That's my fault."

All together, I think the session was positive. She is not in a place where she is ready to reconcile, but I do think we are opening up more about our M.

The rest of the week went alright. Nothing too eventful.

Her parents came to town on Friday. W did not have work on Friday, since school was out. She got to spend most of her day with her Mom. She brought our S over after 5:00. Friday was very positive. Instead of being short and bitter to me, she actually came in and sat down. We had some great small talk and the general attitude was great. I mentioned a wedding of a friend that I had to RSVP for. I told her that I was planning on going but wanted to know if W would like to go as well. I told her no pressure either way. W actually asked me if she could get back to me the next day. She wanted to think about. This was a surprise to me. If the same question was presented last month, I think I would have gotten a quick no. She ended up sticking around for about 30 minutes. It felt really good.

She came by on Saturday afternoon to pick S up. Since her parents were in town, we worked out our schedule with S so that her parents would get to spend some good time with him. She stuck around for a little bit this time, too. Same positive feelings. Lots of smiling. Hard to explain but got a good feeling from her this weekend.

Her parents had gotten a room at a nice resort hotel in town for the weekend. W was taking S over there to go swimming for the first time and just hang out at the hotel.

This is where is really started feeling emotional this weekend. I really started to miss my W and how much I wanted her back in my life. I also felt really down that I would not be able to share the experience of my son's first swim. Just the thought that if this separation were to be permanent, there would be many more experiences that I would not be sharing concerning my S. There would also be many that my W would not get to experience.

It all goes back to MWD's feelings about divorce when children are involved. You should leave no stone unturned. I am not. I can only wish that my W would feel the same. Really ripping me up inside.

I went to church this morning with my brother's family and his in laws. They were also in town for the weekend. It was really nice to spend time with them, but I kept thinking about my W. It didn't help on the way home that one of our love songs came on the radio. Just what I needed to make the tears pour.

W brought S back to the house this afternoon. I was looking good in my Easter Sunday best. She pulled up wearing my favorite dress of hers (one that she is wearing in my favorite framed honeymoon photo on my desk). We each mentioned how nice the other looked. W spent a little time at the house again. We both played with our S together. It was really nice. I mention the wedding again. She apologized for not letting me know the day before, but she thought it over and decided that it would be best not to go. She said that a bunch of my friends would be there, so she would feel a little awkward. She said that if it were more her friends, she would not feel as weird. (I didn't really understand this, as none of my friends that will be there have any clue that W and I are having problems.) I told her that it was not a problem, and I would RSVP for myself. I stayed upbeat and expressed that there was no pressure, but I was disappointed.

So, this ended up being a longer entry than I intended. After this weekend, I am feeling pretty emotional concerning my W and S. I think I have done a pretty good job with the emotional detachment, but I find myself backsliding in that department. I need to get back on course. I started re-reading DR. I think it will be good to go over after a few months of practicing its principles.

[OnMyWay]

I know how you feel sparks. Having W around and in a good mood and real stir up the emotions after having been on the defensive for such a long time.

I feel like I've made such great progress at detaching, only to find myself wanting to escape when W is around for fear of loosing the grip on the progress I've made, as confusion/raw emotion stir when we spend "quality" time together. Good thing, I think, is that it feels like she's experiencing it also, even though I sense she doesn't want to let on about it. Plus, I've learned to expect her "next day" reaction, so I'm not disappointed when she comes at me guns a-blazin'.

All I can say is keep detaching. I think it is great you are going to counseling together. My W starts hers tomorrow and I have no idea whether or not I'll be invited in. Just have to wait and see.

All these sitchs are so similar, yet so different. If we could only figure out how to take the best of each one and build the ultimate DB program . . . It would be great to not have to guess at this so much and know the outcome was going to be positive, huh?

[AJM80]

Sparks (and any other interested guys whose wives pop in and out of their homes) - I propose a "pointless" experiment. Tomorrow on your way home from work, stop and buy some flowers. Don't go nuts $-wise- something simple from the grocery store will work. Don't get the busiest arrangement. Go for simple - all one or two colors or just roses. If you're in doubt, ask a random woman to help you pick. Go home, cut the bottom inch off the stems at an angle (let's them soak up water and live longer), put them in a clean vase or glass, make sure no leaves are in the water (strip them off) and put them on your kitchen counter. That's right, your counter...you just bought yourself flowers.

1) Was it hard to do? Probably not. But that little thing means a lot to the women in your lives - mothers/daughters/wives. File that away and think about it later...or maybe get your D or mother some flowers.
2) Flowers are nice. Hopefully they'll brighten your day for a week or so. You're probably missing some of those nice feminine touches lately. Much easier than washing all the sheets/towels (one of the things I know my H misses)
3) Let us know what W says when she sees them. She'll prob be a little mad...chances are she's not gotten any flowers lately (maybe in a long time). A 180 maybe - being in touch with a softer, romantic, and random side of yourself. Stopping to smell the roses?

And don't forget mother's day. Help your kid make a card or something. Especially a 1st M's day. Trace his little hand on the inside of a greeting card.

I think skipping the wedding is a good decision. Too much pressure right now. Weddings/happy marriage people who don't know you arent/potential that she may or may not be nice that day? Go have fun and let her wonder who you are dancing with!