"Done"... WAW? MLC? Just relationship trouble?

[hoswald]

Hmmm, I may have to try "His Needs, Her Needs" too. Have you read through 5LL?

Same topic, different approach slightly. 5LL is probably more "practical" in that it is about EXPRESSING support/love to your S; HN,HN is more "theoretical" and says "typically, men and women have these needs that, if not fulfilled, will result in them looking elsewhere". So they're really complementary (for example, 5LL will list "words of affirmation" as a manner in which someone understands appreciation; HN,HN will list "conversation and affection" as needs.

I always shared her goals, but I learned the hard way that I wasn't showing that to her in the way she needed to see it.

That's the problem--I can't communicate in a way she understands, and she can't tell me what she needs... ("if I have to tell you, it doesn't count").

I've already seen differences in just a few days. Detach, validate, no R talk...Detach, validate, no R talk...

Trying, man! Trying!

The most important thing I can tell you right here and now is that your M can be saved!

Like Mulder in the X-files, "I want to believe!"

You mentioned your W's great emails while she was gone to
the States. Was there any other time the two of you had written
each other Do you think she communicates better in person or
emails? How about you? I gathered you might not be a big talker.

Unfortunately, I tend to be a pretty bad listener, although I've gotten MUCH better. The thing is, we have a long history of text communication--we dated long-distance for three years in college, writing letters; she wrote me a letter every week (this was before email, for you young pups!). And in the past we have communicated almost better via email than in person.

That's why I was so frustrated by the communications working well and her returning and being so distant!

Had she even hinted in the emails that she felt "done"?

NO. Her emails during that last stretch contained things like "I know what I want: more sex with you..." and "I have not even begun to love you" and "THANK YOU for saying that! This gives me such hope! Big wet smooches!" We had been having troubles before, and then this seemed very hopeless, and then CLICK! she shut down. WEIRD. I keep wondering if there was an OM in that time frame, but haven't seen evidence and she has reassured me that "although she might have had an affair if she had the opportunity, she hasn't yet."

She had a hormone test after getting back to the states, but it turned out normal.

Oh, and in that sentence, insert "I want passionate sex!"
(Don't shake your head. She does want to experience passion!

I know--and I do too! I even found a box and receipt for an, ah, "personal gratification device" in her bathroom before she moved downstairs. It's SO frustrating for BOTH of us to want sex and yet be unable to do anything about it! She even seemed somewhat into the kiss we tried before backing off and saying "aaah, this is confusing!" So I know there's somehing there.

Listen to her carefully.

She wants "tempting". Not just in love/sex, but in EVERYTHING--"My partner should tempt me to adventure."

It's this "tempting" thing that confuses me. I never really learned to flirt. I can OFFER her adventure--but she's not interested. It's the flirtation/tempting thing that I'm having trouble getting.

She is saying, "Make me happy......in spite of how I feel!"

Yes she is.

Going back to college at 40 might have been a lot of fun at first, but let me give you a thought from what may be the mind of a woman in MLC. She is seeing all these twenty-year old girls preparing for their futures. Maybe she started to secretly compare herself to the younger women. Maybe she got a crush on a younger man and then felt guilty or even lacking. Maybe something triggered a MLC. She sees about half her life gone and she wants more than what she presently feels.

This is EXACTLY what happened; similar themes have come up in conversations; she wants "college friends" that go out and party together; she saw one of our good friends get picked up for a London law job and stay out until 5am partying with her coworkers, all these young people fired up with enthusiasm and drive.

But hey, I did too--getting my butt kicked by early-20s physicists who had forgotten more than I knew! It was a really exciting time. I miss it a lot.

Please be careful while GAL. There are a lot of women out there who would not think anything about hitting on you. Although it might help your ego, it would not be worth things in the end.

It's a mixed bag, because actually my ego, or lack of same, is one of the real problems. When I think about it rationally, I am a CATCH-- fit, attractive, funny, successful, educated to the doctoral level at a world-class university, and good at everything from flying helicopters to taking starring roles in plays. BUT I have NO confidence with women. W actually said in therapy that she wished I would flirt more (with other women!) and that if a mistress would give me more confidence, that I should get one. Needless to say, I have no interest in this (and I don't THINK it was "if he gets a mistress, I am clear to pursue OM", but it's academic since I'm not interested anyway).

So the dance classes and such have been almost for the express purpose of learning harmless flirting in a fairly consequence-free environment so that I can be better at flirting with/tempting W. If I am at risk for an affair, it is NOT from that--it's from my best friend here, my first-ever girlfriend (from age 14, lol) whom I am good friends with and has been supportive through this. However (happily) I love her husband and son to death, would never do anything to hurt them, and have monitored our interactions VERY CLOSELY to make sure it's healthy. It is.

Had an interesting observation today in terms of basic world outlooks for my W and I. I favor activities where I can know I'm doing it RIGHT (say, dance classes or rehearsed stage shows). She favors activities where she CAN'T know she's doing it WRONG (say, open dance-how-you-want in a club or improv). I think that's a fundamental thing, and it's colored some of our interactions. I'm not sure what to do about it yet, though.

Hm, more thought necessary. Today's going ... okay, if neutral.