Lily, I suggest doing the following - 1) do a free consultation with an atty. Do not tell your H or leave notes lying around where he might see them. 2) Copy/save what financial records you can. Begin stockpiling some cash and consider what you would do if suddenly his income was not accessible to you and you had to meet expenses. 3) Consider a DB coach package - when my H moved out, I called, completely freaked out. It was $$, but that call alone was probably worth it. It helped me hold it together for my kids the next few weeks. I hadn't started posting on here yet, it was too raw/I was going moment to moment - good for you for being so strong. 4) Focus on the result you want - when you say you are a good Christian woman who wants to not change who you are, I think you are thinking in a good vein. BUT, you will need to change who you are a little. Sit down and look at yourself honestly....good habits and bad. What have you gotten lazy or careless about? A lot of women lose track of their dreams and goals, as I did, so I did a bucket list and have been attacking it as part of my getting a life.
I also really looked at what I did to contribute to the situation. The drugs are a very possible trigger for your situation, but you should still look at yourself and think about what you can improve. You DID NOT deserve this - no question. Look at it this way...the pipes exploded in the upstairs bathroom, are you going to remodel it to how it was or make it the best, new version of your beloved home that it can be?
For better or worse, this is your life. You probably don't want to be bogged down in hatred and anger. You probably want to be able to say, I did everything I could to live up to my vows. Take care of yourself though. Find a few close friends you'd lost track of, set boundaries, if you need to - you can step back for a bit and take a time out.
5)Assume for now that there is another woman and protect yourself accordingly.
6) Your H will be ugly and hateful for awhile. Later, if you can keep things civil and calm, he'll start to come back to himself (assuming it's not all the meds). Try to have compassion for him (no need to tell him or anything like that). He probably hates himself now and has rewritten your history to justify the crap he pulled. Focus on the good things you can do. Watch for him to start being your friend again, mentioning music or article, etc. Listen really well. Don't force talks. Slowly start to share the new things you are doing, some of the time - keep some mystery. At some point he should stop being a jerk and you'll start to have fun interacting again.
Good luck. It's hell, but so is divorce.
Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible. --Stanislaw Lem
Lily, I suggest doing the following - 1) do a free consultation with an atty. Do not tell your H or leave notes lying around where he might see them. 2) Copy/save what financial records you can. Begin stockpiling some cash and consider what you would do if suddenly his income was not accessible to you and you had to meet expenses. 3) Consider a DB coach package - when my H moved out, I called, completely freaked out. It was $$, but that call alone was probably worth it. It helped me hold it together for my kids the next few weeks. I hadn't started posting on here yet, it was too raw/I was going moment to moment - good for you for being so strong. 4) Focus on the result you want - when you say you are a good Christian woman who wants to not change who you are, I think you are thinking in a good vein. BUT, you will need to change who you are a little. Sit down and look at yourself honestly....good habits and bad. What have you gotten lazy or careless about? A lot of women lose track of their dreams and goals, as I did, so I did a bucket list and have been attacking it as part of my getting a life.
I also really looked at what I did to contribute to the situation. The drugs are a very possible trigger for your situation, but you should still look at yourself and think about what you can improve. You DID NOT deserve this - no question. Look at it this way...the pipes exploded in the upstairs bathroom, are you going to remodel it to how it was or make it the best, new version of your beloved home that it can be?
For better or worse, this is your life. You probably don't want to be bogged down in hatred and anger. You probably want to be able to say, I did everything I could to live up to my vows. Take care of yourself though. Find a few close friends you'd lost track of, set boundaries, if you need to - you can step back for a bit and take a time out.
5)Assume for now that there is another woman and protect yourself accordingly.
6) Your H will be ugly and hateful for awhile. Later, if you can keep things civil and calm, he'll start to come back to himself (assuming it's not all the meds). Try to have compassion for him (no need to tell him or anything like that). He probably hates himself now and has rewritten your history to justify the crap he pulled. Focus on the good things you can do. Watch for him to start being your friend again, mentioning music or article, etc. Listen really well. Don't force talks. Slowly start to share the new things you are doing, some of the time - keep some mystery. At some point he should stop being a jerk and you'll start to have fun interacting again.
OK. Bad night.I need some advice as to how to proceed.
So, I get home last night and H, who is supposed to be a the gym is home in the bedroom on the phone. He does not get off the phone when I get home but I notice he is talking rather low in volume. I go into the bedroom and say to him, "Are you OK" acting as if I did not know he was on the phone. He shooed me away with his hand like he did not want the person on the other end to hear me. I left the bedroom and went back up about 15 minutes later to give him a sandwhich and he shooed me away again but he took the sandwhich. After I left he closed the door behind him. Suspicious??? Anyway, the phone conversation was at least an hour. He seemed rather upbeat when he got off and was even borderline, and I use the word borderline loosely, civil to me.
The remainder of the evening was decent and he even initiated a few comments to me. Well, while he was on the phone I hopped on the downstairs computer and his FaceBook page was up. He normally has it locked so he must have forgotten. There was a post from a girl that asked if he was too tired to chat on the phone. So, I determined this was the girl he was talking to. I have other proof (too long to talk about here) that says that he has been corresponding with this girl for some time now but not sure in what regards.
So, today I checked his Facebook page from work and saw that after he got off of the phone with her last night he posted something on Facebook that said that he was on Cloud 9 but wouldn't tell any of his friends why but that something good had happened. Now, this chick lives across the United States.
I had a very quick R talk with H last night a few hours after he got off of the phone as I was rather upset to know who he was talking to and felt I needed to have an update on things. I know, 2x4. I asked him if he knew any more of what he was going to do about our situation. Again, for the 100th time he told me "I don't know". He will never give me a straight answer.
So, H talks for over an hour to a woman and then gets off of the phone and says he is on Cloud 9 but won't tell anyone why. I know this woman has a young D and lives in another state. There are a few other suspicious posts between the two of them on FB with most of which appears to be them sending each other private messages and such that I can't read.
The million dollar question, is do I confront him in any way either directly or indirectly about her or anyone else that he may be involved with? Why does he keep telling me "I don't know" when he has told me he doesn't love me, want me, and divorce seems the only option for him? Do you all think he is buying time until he can afford the divorce or does he really not know? I don't want to push him into giving me a decision if he really isn't ready to cause I know he will pick divorce.
I am realistic to believe that I cannot and will not compete with an OW. It just never works in my opinion. The R he has right now with her is infatuation and that is not combatible. Infatuation will always win out. I just want to say F*&^ him and leave but I don't want to do anything drastic either.
Is it ok at this point to simply ask him if he is seeing someone or wanting to see someone else and tell him that that is what my intuition is telling me. Maybe something like, "With the way you are treating me, it seems like I am standing in the way of you wanting to be with someone else. I will readily move out of your way and stop trying if that is what you want." And then of course, wait for a response.
After spending some time on his FB page, he certainly has GAL for himself. I think he is now realizing all of his possibilities out there and it is doing further damage to any possible hopes of reconciling. He has been there done that with me but there is a world of new possibilities for him if he doesn't choose me. It just makes me feel that it is hopeless and I am not worthy.
Once they have announced they are through (or not in love, or want a divorce) they consider themselves "free" to pursue others, even though they haven't done anything practical to get divorced yet.
And you are right, the novelty of infatuation temporarily trumps the familiarity of a steady relationship.
He may or may not turn around - but the path you follow remains the same: WORK ON YOURSELF.
Confidence is attractive. Clinging is not. The more you focus on getting a life for yourself, being all that YOU can be, the more likely he'll notice and be interested in you. And if he doesn't come back, the better off you will be for your future adventures.
What have you always wanted to learn to do? What challenges have you ever dreamed of tackling? Now's the time! Climb a mountain? Learn to play drums in a rock band? (I've done both!!! )
Whatever it is, now is the time to pursue your dreams. Get busy with your own life. Take stock of yourself - do you need to lose weight, firm up, change your hairstyle, try new clothes? Let loose a little.
And if you find it unacceptable that he is flirting with other women while living with you, feel free to boot him out. It's okay to stand up for yourself and set limits - odds are he'll respect you more for having a spine. Just don't shoot yourself in the foot financially - make plans. If you can't afford for him to move out yet, bear in mind that while he's still living there, you have more opportunities for him to see your changes. Go out in the evening and come back late - let him wonder where YOU have been for a change.
And I second the previous advice, gather all financial records, check your credit cards, make sure he's not running up debt or raiding savings accounts. If you decide to boot him, consider taking half of all checking and savings and transferring it to your own account before you tell him.
lily2011, You said that you have been "acting AS If" for 8 weeks. How long prior to your change in relating to him of 8 weeks ago have you noticed a change in the way that he treats you as his wife?
Fortunately, my wife and I have not dealt with any affairs in our marriage. I am pretty sure of this. Any changes in the way that my wife treats me are related to how she is feeling about or living situation and how difficult our life is right now. The past 5 months have been especially difficult for us, for 7 months I have been unemployed and we are now living with her parents and we just had our fourth child. She is able to turn her feelings around and as a result our strained marriage is re-strengthened.
I bring this up because if her feelings for me and the way she treats me started to become unending or if she was unwilling to work things out with me, I would then take that as a possible sign of an affair.
So my advice is to ask yourself, "When did he start treating me like he did not love me anymore?" Then ask yourself, "How long ago did he give up trying to work things out for the marriage together with me?"
This advice and the answers to those questions may give you an indication of an actual affair, and how long it may have been going on. At least you may know when he started to struggle with the temptation of possibly having an affair.
It seems that right now you have pretty solid evidence of an affair but no smoking gun or confession yet. Perhaps having a starting point of his unusual behavior towards you may act as a starting point for any possible investigation into proving and further validating your suspicions.
At the least you can have a starting point for your recollection of his unusual behavior towards you. If you have a starting point as a frame of reference you may better be able to recall any signs of an affair that you may have overlooked at that time to further prove your suspicions and or build a case against him.
It seems to me like you really want to try to make the marriage restored and you do not a divorce (forgive me if I am wrong) but reconciliation has to be made in the light of his truly owning up to his mistake for a beginning. He may confeess (cannot stand the guilt he feels anymore) or he may not be able to deny your proof. Either way that would be a beginning.
I believe in marriage restoration after an affair because I have witnessed it in the lives and marriages of dear friends, but there was always confession, repentance, focus on the needs of the cheated on spouse and then the marriage and then forgiveness.
Thanks! We have separate checking accounts and we just emerged from Chap 13 so there are no assests to split. No kids either although we would probably fight over the dogs. Yea, I agree that right now making myself as attractive as possible is the best thing to do. If it is truly just emotional affair at this point in time then I have the advantage because I am around and the other person is not.
It is also a good point that he has, in his mind, freed himself to pursue other people. To me, one has to be legally divorced prior to beginning a R with OP but not everyone shares my beliefs, including my H so he may feel that he is already free. I never thought of it that way.
Thanks guys for talking me off a ledge. It is hard to do but putting space between finding terrible things out and then acting out is so important. If my H was around when I found most of this out I probably would have done/said something I would have regretted.
It truly is about where your focus is. If it is not on something important and worthwhile then it is bound to be on snooping, worrying, and anger towards your spouse and situation. I would much rather it be on God and good. Now, lets see if I can put it into practice.
I do think you are clinging, and giving away all of your power here and basically just waiting for him to "choose" you, even though you say that's unacceptable to you (your actions say otherwise, and he knows this).
There used to be a poster here named Robx who posted something once that I liked so much, I made it a point to save it. You have to change the gender, obviously, and some of it doesn't apply, but the overall approach, attitude, and substance of it certainly does:
RobX’s approach:
Sit her down and have a discussion with her. No need to be mad, angry, a$$hole, prick on anything, keep it calm, light but straight forward, direct to the point, etc. Don't make it last more than a few minutes.
You tell her trust is based on actions that are consistent.
You don't trust her because she hasn't been consistent.
You don't trust her because she's been lying to you, in fact you tell her that is what you trust her to continue doing, because she has been lying to your consistently - that's what you can trust.
For you to be able to trust her, she has to build trust. Sure you can trust her blindly and have faith and all that good stuff but honestly how well has that worked up to this point?
Don't ask for for full disclosure.
Do the opposite.
Tell her this:
"... I don't want your cell phone records, I don't want to look at your cell phone text msg's and call history, I don't want your email or fb password, I don't want your voicemail pw. If I have to monitor you 24/7 to force you to be consistent, that won't work for me because that's not what I want or need.
I wanted you to be trustworthy but I don't need you to be anything, truth be told, I'll be just fine without you, I see that now.
From now on I'm moving in this direction, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore and you already know that if you're with the OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that.
If you really want to be with the OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to me and that's all that matters - I see that now.
If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had alot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with the OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for too long.
I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me."
No being mean, spiteful, vindictive, you let her go. No more discussions, arguments, no more talks about lies, no more sneaking around behind your back, she can do what she wants but you are letting her go to do what she wants to do but at the same time, you are now allowing yourself to be free of this crappy limbo place you've been living in for so long.
Bro, if she wants to be with you, she'll be with you, no amount of a$$ kissing, sneaking, snooping, being mean, angry, standing tall, etc. is going to change that.
You be the best gosh darn example of a MAN for you and for you only. If she wants this great MAN that you are in her life, she'll pursue you and do what it takes to be a part of that.
You need to respect yourself first, that's the first step and letting go of your wife her untrustworthy ways to establish that your self-respect, dignity and integrity are the most important things in your life is what you NEED and WANT to do. You know what you're worth, go out and get what you're worth and let go of the things that are worthy of you - starting feeling your personal value, know it, resonate with it, live it. You are worth better than what she is giving you right now, if you don't set that boundary, you'll allow her to do this to you forever and who could respect that?
Otherwise continue playing this game and you'll be playing this chase & pursue game, pushing & pulling for the rest of your life.
Time to get off the merry go round, this ride isn't that fun anymore.
Starsky, yea I am assuming that his frustration has something to do with me "standing in his way". I have been waiting until we emerge from Chap 13 (we get our discharge papers any day). I have found an apartment I like and have been trying to fix up the house for sale. I have not contacted an ATTy but have found one I am planning on contacting. There is just some mental block I am having by going to see someone. I guess it has something to do with me not being able to put my head in the sand any longer.
He was rather nice to me last night but I know he grabbed some divorce paperwork that he had hidden and a copy of our mortgage before he left for work last night. I also know that he was talking on the phone to someone about having to make some decisions today and he had the money but had some decisions to make. I am assuming he is meeting with that attorney again today to file??? I am also assuming that his niceties had something to do with possible guilt from what he is about to do. Don't know. Just want all of this over with.
Starsky, yea I am assuming that his frustration has something to do with me "standing in his way". I have been waiting until we emerge from Chap 13 (we get our discharge papers any day). I have found an apartment I like and have been trying to fix up the house for sale. I have not contacted an ATTy but have found one I am planning on contacting. There is just some mental block I am having by going to see someone. I guess it has something to do with me not being able to put my head in the sand any longer.
He was rather nice to me last night but I know he grabbed some divorce paperwork that he had hidden and a copy of our mortgage before he left for work last night. I also know that he was talking on the phone to someone about having to make some decisions today and he had the money but had some decisions to make. I am assuming he is meeting with that attorney again today to file??? I am also assuming that his niceties had something to do with possible guilt from what he is about to do. Don't know. Just want all of this over with.
YOU NEED TO SEE AN ATTORNEY RIGHT AWAY. It doesn't mean you have to DO anything, but you do need to protect yourself, as your marriage is under attack here.
As the Good Book says, "There is wisdom in many counselors."
Hi Lily, been following your posts. I agree with Starsky and RobX. You'll sleep a little better knowing you are prepared, even for things we hope don't come along.
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