Am I on the right track?

[NEmoose43]

Well, I've been poking around on the boards for a while now, and I've read a lot about everyone's situations. I can't tell you all how much inspiration I've drawn from all of your stories...but after last night, I think it's finally time for me to get mine out there. Sorry it's going to be a novel, but there's a lot to tell, and any insight you guys could give me would be so appreciated.

W and I will have been married for 6 years this May. We met when my first marriage was crumbling (during the 90-day waiting period we have in our state for divorces), and fell head over heels for each other. I was 27 and she was 20, and though the age difference was a concern for both of us, we were talking about marriage within the first few months of dating each other. We were deliriously happy, and the complications and little problems in our lives seemed very small and insignificant. But of course, I'm here, so they obviously didn't stay that way.

Fast forward a bit to my first monstrous mistake, which was an EA with a coworker that started almost exactly 3 years ago. It never got physical beyond OW trying to kiss me at a work party, but I know W does not believe that. W found out when she saw pictures that OW had sent me with her phone posing in underwear, at which point I confessed to W, ended the EA, and tried to get on with our lives. And we were pretty successful at rebuilding. But the major problem was that I made the mistake of letting OW back into my life about 6 months later. She came back and apologized for trying to take our friendship to another level and asked if we could be friends again since she really valued my advice, etc, etc. I said we could try without thinking about what this would do to my W. I know, major mistake, but I can't change the past.

Fast forward again to this past September, when W started grad school for combined MS/PhD program approximately 50 miles from our home. Very stressful for her since she also needed to continue working part-time for us to afford it. OW drops a bomb on me by telling me that she is moving cross country to live in CA, and that she wants me to go with her. I lost it at her, said our friendship was over and that I did not want to hear from her anymore. Probably shouldn't have done it, but I told W about this as I was wanting to not have any secrets from her. Unfortunately, not only did it upset W, but thinking about W going back to school and OW going after her dreams got me thinking about where I was in my life and what I had accomplished...bringing on my very own MLC at 35! Yay! Was feeling very down, not happy at work, and that started to invade my home life. Now with W going to school and being super excited about it, she took my depression as me being upset that she was fulfilling a dream of hers, and i have learned in the last few weeks that that caused a lot of resentment on her part. She thought that I did not support her going for her dreams, and this could not be further from the truth. I sent her a long email trying to talk about why I was upset and how I was trying to figure out what to do with my goals etc...and made the mistake of not saying anything about how happy I was to have the solidity of our marriage to keep me sane and grounded. She took this email to mean that I was contemplating leaving her and going out on my own to find myself. Again, I only found out about this recently though the email was sent months ago.

Another major issue in our marriage is the fact that my elderly father lives with us, and has actually lived with me since before W and I met. She moved into my house, and unfortunately, I realize now that having a "roommate" really never allowed us to start our lives together. Despite having separate living areas, we've never had any real privacy, and that was a strike against us from the beginning. This past January, my father had a serious health scare where a cracked bone in his spine caused a swelling around his spinal cord. He spent over a month in various hospitals to try and fix the problem and it absolutely destroyed me mentally. I see now that during his illness, I was very cold to W, almost to the point of being mean. To be honest, I did not tell her a lot about what was going on because she is deathly afraid of hospitals, and I didn't want to burden her with what was going on due to the heavy workload she had at school.

Fast forward a bit more to last month, when I checked a phone bill and discovered 3000 text messages in a month between W and a colleague at her school. Checked her phone to figure out who the number was and also discovered some very flirtatious FB messages and posts. Confronted W that night and found out about EA with this guy that started during the first week my father was in the hospital. She said that he kissed her one night when she was crying about how upset I was and how she was thinking about leaving me. She also says that she confided in him because he had been through an incredibly painful divorce and it helped to talk to someone who had to deal with some of the things that she was feeling. She swears up and down that there is nothing else going on, and I believe her, although I have seen other emails and messages from him that tell me that at least he is still pursuing her. I have told W that despite any good advice he may have provided, OM wants her for himself and is trying to poison our relationship. She grudgingly agreed with me.

Which brings us to where we are now. The discovery of the EA brought out a lot of emotions in me: anger, pain, betrayal...but mostly guilt because I realized that the way I had behaved and my lack of communication with W is what drove her to confide in OM. I made the decision to forgive her immediately, but W said that there were more problems than just the obvious ones, and she wasn't sure if she wanted to work on us because of all the mistakes I had made with OW and the way she perceived my feelings about her going back to school. The last month has been full of a lot of soul searching on both our parts, and I am 150% committed to making things work between us. I have forgiven W, but she says she is not sure how to forgive, or if she even wants to forgive me. I have read DR and DB many times over, and am trying to do major 180s, especially in the way I interact with W and talk to her about school and in helping around the house to take as much pressure and stress off of her as I can. She has noticed the changes, but she does not know whether to believe in them. And my unfortunate tendency to want to talk things out at every opportunity has pushed her away.

As of today, W is staying at her parents house, about 15 minutes away from me. She has spent several days there for each of the last few weeks, and has come home on weekends to hang out and stay with me. We have had several date nights and had a good time at each. Nothing physical, even kissing, has happened since I discovered the EA, nor has she said that she loves me and we have talked about this a few times. W says that kissing me or telling me she loves me would make it seem like everything's ok when it's not, which I understand. And after a long long talk last night, it comes down to the fact that she wants space to figure out "who she is and what makes her happy". And also needs time to process all the things we've talked about and where it all fits. I told her I love her more than anything, and I want to make it through this together and that I will give her whatever support she needs...even if it means spending time apart. She says she has given me chances for three years now and I've blown all of them, so she is scared that if she gives me another chance and lets me back in, that I'll only end up hurting her again. She has said that she wants to figure out what makes her happy before trying anything with us, and she has said a couple of times that she "wants to let me back in", but doesn't know exactly how to or if she can trust me.

Wow, sorry this ended up being so long, but it's been a long month and a half since the sh-t hit the fan. Any insight you guys can give me would be so much appreciated. I feel like I've been receiving so many mixed messages from her that I don't know how to proceed. Do I go dark? Do I continue to communicate as we always have? I know I really need to avoid any R talk at all until she is ready, but do I act as I normally would toward her other than that???

What do you guys think?

[NEmoose43]

Backslid bigtime last night...

W was looking through her email for something she wanted to show me and I noticed an email from OM. I asked her to open it...BIG mistake. I honestly wanted to see how he signed his emails to her, and as I said in my first post I do trust what she's told me, but I don't trust him any further than I could throw him. She let me look, but it really upset her that I even asked. She was already planning to stay at her mother's house tonight, but she told me this morning that she almost left right after I asked about it. She also said she was mad at herself "for letting me boss her around." Not sure how to feel about that one.

Ugh...I know I need to detach and let things go, but of all the 180s I'm trying, this one is the hardest. I'm a talker, I'm a note and email writer...and I know I need to stop that and give her space. But it's so damn hard. Have made it a goal not to contact W unless I need to while she's at the in-laws house, but had a text conversation today that I wanted to share. Here goes:

Me: Hey there, how was this morning at work?

W: Good, glad it's over though...way too early to get up today.

M: I overslept a bit so I didn't have a chance to get the last load of laundry out of the dryer...sorry

W: No worries, I have time to grab it.

M: What are you up to this afternoon?

W: Running, shower, packing up, studying...the usual grind.

M: Cool...how are you today anyway?

W: I'm ok, still pissed about last night...above all, I'm mad at myself for letting you boss me around.

[At this point she decided to call me to fill me in on the stuff I mentioned above...no raised voice or anything, just being matter of fact. Said she didn't want to be with me if I was going to be suspicious about stuff like that all the time. I apologized, but I got a little mad and asked how I was supposed to feel about OM. I asked her if she could understand why I needed to know about what was going on with him, and she said she thought it was because I needed to know if I could trust her...which it was. Anyway, hung up in decent mood and texted me again about 45 mins later]

W: I'm sorry, didn't mean to sound so angry, but I am still upset.

M: It's ok, I have no more questions now. You know where I was coming from and I understand where you're at with what you're dealing with regarding your own stuff and us. Am I right about that?

W: Yes

M: Ok, then I think this next three weeks is a time for both of us to cool off and work on ourselves.

W: That sounds good to me.

M: I think the emotions are still too raw for both of us...and I know my stupid need to talk and dissect everything has not allowed either of us to process anything. It probably even dragged up more bad stuff to be honest.

W: You got that right

M: Ha Ha...ok so let's take 3 weeks, you finish your semester strong, and we'll both relax and look at ourselves, and then we can try to come back with a lot less stress and hopefully a new outlook for both of us and try to rebuild...Is that what you were hoping for as well?

W: Yes it is.

M: Cool. W, I'm really sorry it took so much pain to finally get us on the same page with this, but I feel like we've gotten there today.

W: I agree, and I'm sorry too.

M: I know you still need me to prove myself, and that's ok...but as I said before, if there's anything you DO need to talk to me about I'm always willing to listen, so just let me know.

W: OK sweetie, I will.

M: Cool, have a good run.

W: I will, talk to you soon.

And that was that. So after a big blowup last night, and a sleepless night for me, we have a really decent conversation...or at least that's the way it seemed to me. I just can't get a read on her. I've had a few DB phone coaching sessions, and my coach mentioned that she keeps hearing "little gems" from my conversations with W. Am I just getting my hopes up when we have talks like this? There's a part of me that thinks she's just blowing smoke and is biding her time until it gets to an easier point for her to Bomb me back to the Stone Age. But I suppose that's an attitude I need to have to be able to GAL and get right with myself.

Like the title of the thread says...am I on the right track???

[~¤DG¤~]

I do think you are on the right track, and I see positives in your story.

Now that you have made the decision to take time for yourself, use that time for yourself and leave her be. I know how hard that can be, I'm like you, I'm a talker/texter and it goes against everything about me to not do it. I'll be the first to admit I haven't been doing the best at it either. I need to get serious about detaching. It's hard, because we love our spouses so much, and just want them to know how much we love them and how sorry we are.
We have to show them, not tell. Actions speak louder than words.

I really wish you the best of luck.

[NEmoose43]

DG, thanks for your post. I've read a bit of your sitch and I feel like you and I are on the same kind of track right now. My W has said she has considered the D, but then she'll come right back and say things about what "we" are going to do during the summer. Mixed messages make it so hard to detach and not try to push when you get those positives.

And I've thought a lot about the actions, not words idea...something that I realized the other day is that sometimes doing nothing at all is still taking action. That was a tough lesson, but just backing off and letting things be seems to be the only choice we have sometimes.

Wishing you the best of luck as well.

[NEmoose43]

Journaling again:

My goal for the day was not to text/call W first. And I was able to hold to it for once! Got a text from her at school around noon, letting me know about some end of the school year stuff and that her advisor is leaning towards making her his full-time grad assistant next year. I congratulated her, told her it was awesome and left it at that. And what do you know, 2 hours later I get another text letting me know about an MRI she has scheduled for a neck problem she's dealing with. They scheduled at 8:30 at night, which is a little strange and she was a bit worried that they're trying to get her in for the test as quickly as they are. So we went back and forth about that and what she has to do to get ready for finals in two weeks. I ended the convo again by telling her to get back to work and I'd talk to her later.

Strangely enough, a couple hours later, I get another text asking how work was going. I actually had a rough day, slipped on a cardboard box on the floor and messed up my back a little, so I told her about that and she gave me a bunch of things to do to try and calm it down. Again, I ended the convo by saying I had to get back to work and said I'd let her know how I was feeling when I got home.

Texted her to say I was finally home about an hour ago, and she called back almost immediately. Ended up talking for about 45 mins about our days and what we had planned tomorrow. Really great normal conversation, lots of laughing and joking, and not even a moment of R talk! [allow me a moment to pat myself on my incredibly sore back....thank you]

I've been trying meditation lately...trying to calm myself down I suppose. We talked about that a bit and W invited me to try a yoga class with her. Told her I'd love to as soon as my back stops seizing up. She talked a bit about how when she's in class it helps her to let go of the negativity of the last 6 months and focus on what to do to make things better [which made me want to jump around my living room of course]. So I said that as much as I'd love to be a part of something she enjoys so much, I wouldn't want to intrude on what's become a sanctuary for her. To which she replied: "Thank you for saying that, but I'd really like you to come."

Said goodnight soon after that, and I managed to hang up without saying "I miss you" or "I love you"...again, little goals accomplished.

Lot of positivity today. Maybe she really did need to just get away from me and clear her head? Man I hope so. I feel so empty without her here, and sleeping without her is still straight up torture...guess I have to take it day by day and minute by minute. Hope everyone can send some patient vibes my way...

[Hurt-but-Hopeful]

NEmoose - I feel like I relate a lot to the mixed messages & roller coaster as well. My sitch doesn't involve OW but H says he feels emotionally disconnected & done, but doesn't want this to "just be it", there's still a little hope, but he doesn't know if he has enough left in him. He seems honestly torn & doesn't know what to do. I think he's definitely in MLC.

I, too, am trying my best to detach (which I read someone on one of the threads say detach from the R not the person - I read too many to remember who) and not pursue, give him space and work on things FOR ME that make ME feel good about myself. It does sound like there are a lot of positives in your sitch. Patience is hard but that's what we have to have! Good luck!

[NEmoose43]

Well, another rough day today.

Had a brutal day at work. My back is still all screwed up, and of course I spent most of my shift on my feet so that didn't help. W had a busy day as well, but got several texts from her checking up on me to see how I was feeling. Was so busy and stressed out by the end of the day that I was absolutely dreading coming home to an empty house.

Got a late text from W saying she was sorry but she was exhausted and was going to go to bed. I asked her to call anyway for a minute...what can I say, I just really wanted to hear her voice. We talked for about 5 minutes, and I told her about all the stress of the day. She was really very sweet about it, and I told her that driving home knowing she wasn't going to be there was just hard. She said "H, I know, I'm so sorry", but very quietly.

Man I wish she was here. Feelin really down tonight. No idea how I'm going to make it another 3 weeks like this. And I feel like I shouldn't even get my hopes up for then either in case she decides she isn't ready to come back and try to work on us.

Probably backslid a bit tonight, but it's hard to hide my feelings from her when I'm hurting this bad.

[NEmoose43]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, been a very busy week at work, and a very busy week between W and me. The roller coaster continues to roll. Here's the update as concisely as I can write it, sorry it's gonna be a long one.

Last Thursday, had dinner with W after work. Great time, talked and joked like everything was fine. No real R talk to speak of, though W was talking about plans after the school year ends. Stuff about coming home, what she wanted to do for work, vacations, etc. I didn't pry or push on anything to do with us, just offered suggestions when she asked and tried like hell not to presume that she was including me in any of these plans. I even said I didn't want to be too presumptuous at one point, which she said she appreciated. Left on a good note, and she told me she wanted to spend the day with me on Saturday and then stay with me at our house that night. I felt like I was walking on air the whole next day.

Friday, did a bunch of stuff for myself. Good long workout, hung out with friends, took the dogs for a walk, read a bunch...and received texts from W all day. Things still looking up.

Saturday, W spent the afternoon with a mutual friend who is also having some M difficulties, but we met up at the mall for some shopping and dinner that night. Lots of flirting while we were shopping. At one point we literally ran into each other at one store with really narrow aisles, and she laughed and put her arms around my waist, so I leaned in and gave her a quick kiss on the cheek. She smiled and winked at me...again, things looking up no?
Had a great dinner, some more talk about stuff we were planning for the summer, and some more touching and flirting. If it had been a regular date, I'd have thought I was going to get lucky! On the way out to our cars, she actually took my hand!!! That hadn't happened in over a month and I practically melted, but obviously I didn't let that show, just looked over and smiled at her.
Watched TV together for a bit at home, went to bed, and all I said was thanks for a fun evening. I also said I wanted to apologize if I sounded too presumptuous when we talked about the summer, but I really hoped that there was room for me in the plans that she had. Wasn't entirely sure if I should have said it, but she smiled and said thank you for saying that.

Easter, had to work for a few hours in the morning, W went to a yoga class, then we both showered and got ready to head to her parents for dinner. I made a point of saying that if she didn't want me to be over there it was totally okay and that I understood. Told her I didn't want her to feel awkward at all, and she said that she really wanted me to come, as did her parents.
Had a great time. I made a point of leaving my phone in my car and making every effort to reconnect with her parents and aunt. It was the first time I had seen them in a couple months, and I was hoping that my 180s would be obvious to them as well. Anyway, it was awesome. MIL had been cleaning out the basement, and found a huge box full of baby photos of W and her sisters. After dinner we spent about a half hour sitting together on the couch with her going through them and telling me stories. We were practically cuddling and it felt like old times. And then that damn light switch got flipped in her head.
As I was talking to her father about baseball, noticed that W had been gone for a bit. Her father actually said "Where'd she go?", and I said I thought she was in her bedroom. He just looked at me and gave me a little head nod down the hallway and said "go talk to her." Love the guy, he gets it.

So I go down the hall and she's laying on her bed playing a game on her phone. Ask her what's up...and it leads to a 2 hour conversation about the R and a lot of bad stuff comes out. ILYBINILY, no attraction, I've been thinking about leaving since your EA (3 years ago) and I feel like if I stay I'm giving something up...the usual. Gotta love that rapid backlash action! But I suppose that all the positive stuff was too much for her.
We both cried a little, I validated as much as I could, and when I felt us starting to talk in circles told her she needed to get some sleep and I'd take off. She walked me to my car and I said it felt like we got a lot of stuff out in the open again and that we were back to the point where she wanted to try for us, but that she was afraid to let me back in because she was afraid I'd just hurt her again. She agreed. So all I said was this: "W, I have never been more sure of anything in my life than the fact that I will never hurt you again. I have made some terrible mistakes in the past 3 years, but I have learned from them and I am a changed person because of them and because of you. I know you've already seen this, and these changes are for life. And all I can say is one more chance is all I would ever need." She nodded, gave me a hug, and told me she'd call me before she fell asleep. I found that weird, but I wasn't going to argue.

Got home about 15 minutes later, and by the time she called, I was steaming mad. We talked a little bit, but then I told her I had some things I needed to say and I let a little of the anger out, which is something I haven't done so far throughout this crisis. Here's what I said more or less:
"W, what I think happened today is that, after the last few fun days together and having a great time as a family today, you freaked out because you caught yourself believing in us again. I totally understand why that would scare you, especially because you feel like allowing yourself to try for us again feels to you like you're giving something up. I know that I screwed up, and I know I'm not perfect, but no one is, and I know that you deserved better than the husband I've been for the last few years. But I am NOT going to make those mistakes again, and I need you to give me the opportunity to prove that to you [raising my voice a little at this point]. I will do whatever it takes to save us, and I will do whatever it takes to prove to that to you. I miss you W, and I want you home."
She got a little quiet, honestly I think that I shocked her a little. She said she understood and that she'd talk to me the next day.

So that brings us to yesterday. She had to be in to work at 6:15, and she had mentioned that she forgot to grab a check to register for a triathlon she's entering in June (part of her GAL), also noticed she had forgotten some insurance papers she needed for a Dr. appointment in the afternoon. I decided to take them to her at work. Actually arrived when she had about 15 minutes of down time and she got a HUGE smile on her face when she saw me walk through the door. I actually wanted to look behind me to see if she was smiling at someone else. Gave her the check and the papers and she was so surprised and happy: "Thank you so much, I wasn't even sure you heard me mention the check. And I wouldn't have been able to go to my Dr. without the paperwork." I said it was no problem at all, but I had to get to work and she offered to walk me to my car.
On the way out, I apologized for being a little angry on the phone the night before. She said I didn't have to and she totally understood where it came from. But she was smiling at me??? I asked if her parents had said anything about me being over at the house, and she said her mom just looked at her and said "W, he is really trying. This is the first time he hasn't been on his phone once at our house since I've known him, and he spent the entire afternoon talking with all of us." [Thanks MIL!!!] So W gets in the car with me, which I didn't expect, and says:
W - I agree with you that we need to be together for you to prove yourself to me, and I'm not sure if we should get a place closer to school or not. I'm afraid if we rent something and you go back to the old you, then I'm going to be trapped.
M - I understand, but like I said, this is the new me W, and these changes are permanent. And I know that it scares you, but I also know that there's a part of you, the part that loves me, that wants to believe that they're for real.
W - You're right.
M - So we're back to where we were. Finish the semester and take these two weeks to concentrate on school. [her nieces are staying at her parents house for 4 nights this week] If things are nuts at your parents, you can always come stay with me Tuesday since I'm at work late and you'll have the house to yourself to study. Then get through finals next week and we'll take it from there. OK?
W - That sounds good [with a huge smile]

As I'm driving out of the parking lot, I slow down to wave to her. Then impulsively, I made the "I love you" sign with my hand and winked at her. It's something we used to do when we worked in the same location so we could always say it without making our coworkers nauseous. She laughed and made the sign back to me.

Then that afternoon, she got out of work early, and we had talked and texted several times during the day. So I dropped a line from the movie Anchorman on her in a text. "Gonna throw this out there, if you like it you can keep it, if not, just throw it right back...you can always swing by and say hi after work if you want." Followed it up with "Bet you thought I was going to say I wanted to be on you...well, I was thinking it ;-)"
Total flirting, which I've avoided for a while now. [And sorry if I got a little risque here, but if you've seen the movie, I'm sure you remember the line.]
She showed up at my job right after she got out. We talked for a bit, and it was so natural. One of my employees even said afterwards "Wait, I thought you guys were having problems...she was full-on flirting with you." We walked to the door together to say goodbye, and she moved in really close to me.

M - Umm, is it me or are you in a much better frame of mind than you were last night?
W - I am, and are you?
M - Well that's good, and I absolutely am.
W - OK sweetie, I'll call you before I go to sleep tonight and I'll let you know about staying with you Tuesday.
And then she moved in and gave me a long hug, really holding me too, not just a perfunctory "arm" hug kinda thing.

So that's where we are. Again sorry it's a long post, but a lot happened in a short time. Any insights you guys might have on this would be appreciated. I think I'm still in a good place right now, I guess I just need to stay patient???

[dbmod]

^

[NEmoose43]

Well, things seem to have gotten worse again. Why is it that every positive that we seem to have comes back with another negative? I know the whole thing about a WAW is that they're conflicted and unsure of what they really want. I think the way I'm responding is making it worse though.

W ended up coming to stay at the house this past Thursday and it was actually a very good night. I made dinner, and W had a difficult night at night at work, so I let her vent for a while. Watched a little TV together and went to bed. Very peaceful and calm evening over all.

Friday, things went downhill fast, and it was my fault. W had to work at the gym early, and I met her when she was done with clients to work out. Ended up going to lunch and W was in a bad mood. I asked if there was anything that she needed to talk about and she said that she wasn't feeling comfortable at the house. I validated as much as possible, told her I understood where that came from and I wanted her to be happy to come home so I asked her if there was anything I could do. She didn't say anything. We went home after lunch, and W got a little upset because she wouldn't have time to go visit her sister and her nieces since they had decided to go away for the weekend. I tried to empathize with her, and then all he!! broke loose.

W started to talk about the relationship again and said that she thought she was happier when she was away from me. Again, I bit my tongue and tried to do nothing but validate. Said that I understood that her coming home was awkward for her, and I apologized for my part in that. As she pressed on about things that were upsetting her about what I had done in the past, it led to another circular discussion about what we had talked about before. I know now that I should have ended the conversation and just walked away, but part of me saw an opening to try and make a difference. BIG MISTAKE Moose.

Found myself asking for another chance again, promising that I would never need another one, etc etc. I realize now (after a DB coaching session this morning) that this is where I need to back way off. I need to go dark about everything about the relationship talk. While it's good that we've been able to clear out all the things that we've been holding inside, now that they're in the open, I need to shut up and allow my 180s and GAL to do what they're designed to do. I need to just be myself and if she comes around, then awesome, but if not then I'll still be a better person for the changes I have made. My need to talk and articulate everything that's going on in my head is just pushing her away when she does want to be home with me. The more I do it, the less she's going to want to come back.

So now I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. Guys I could really use some reassurance, and I know I can't get that from W as much as I want it. An inspiration you guys can give me would be so much appreciated.