Standing for my live-in MLC'er/WAS

[Grace_O]

Angel,

Sadly it has become more common for girls to cut. I think it’s a mistake to minimize it because little so-and-so is doing it “just because” or to get attention. Having said that, I get why he might need to (minimize it), if that’s really what he’s doing. He may not be, just exploring the possibilities verbally and hoping it isn’t really serious for her.

The thing about cutters is we never really know their intentions. My D had told both me and her counselor that it was an externalization of the pain she felt inside (my paraphrase). That she wasn’t suicidal. Until she was.

I don’t say this to scare you. I know you’re scared enough. Things can spin out and life gets messy really quick sometimes. We just have to be aware.

[q]H wanted to come but because D had told me she did not want H to know, I did not bring H. I don't want D to further not trust me. [/q]

I think she needs to understand that something this serious will not be kept a “secret” from her Dad. I get the trust thing and I think it could be worse later for her to find out than if you put it out there now. I would go with whatever the therapist says though. She’s the pro.

I know you don’t want to pressure him. It’s really up to him how he internalizes this. At one point I told my H that I knew this wasn’t his fault and it could be happening no matter what. Don’t walk on eggshells, but don’t be mean or vindictive. Easier said than done, I know.

To find me on the alt search Divorce Busting when you’ve logged into facebook, then search my name, Grace_O. I should pop up.

[q]I will just go ahead as though he is going to be flaky and not the strong parent. I have to replace D's preconceived notion of myself as the weak parent with a show of strength.[/q]

Absolutely be strong, for your daughter and yourself. I treated my H as if he wouldn’tflake. He doesn’t talk to me or the counselor about it, he does his best to have D talk with him. So, I don’t think he has flaked on her.

Take care.

HUGS

[angel61]

Update:

The rest of the day H did not call me, unlike the other day. He got home before i did, picked up D, and they both walked the dog. I made sure he understands that he cannot leave D to go to the gym.

I got home, and one look at H showed me that he is internalizing, processing. I kept my distance. WE did not talk about D, but in the eveing, he asked me to go check her.

D did not want company, I went back to our room, but was not comfortable so kept getting up to check on her. She later came in and told me she needed a rosary, as there was none in her room. I gave her one, and she looked up parying the rosary on the internet and prayed a decade. This is the first time she has done that. It is good she is praying, but otherwise, I cannot help but see it as a sign of her inner turmoil.

I ended up sleeping (not sleeping actually, up till 3AM) with D. I was so restles I kept pacing in our house. H woke up once when I was standing by his bed and got irritated at me. I just told him I could not sleep. I tried putting away some of the sharp stuff at home.

In the morning, we talked a little about D. H asked me what the therapist said, if she recommended treatment. I said that they only talked about coping strategies, and that she did not say what we should do except to keep away the sharps in our house and focus on our D. She told me to tell him that while it is true we are struggling too, we should understand that D is a child, and that we have to go beyond our struggles to make sure that she is safe. She is deeply affected by the home situation, and is unstable. She perceives herself as the "mature" one amongst all of us, and that is very inappropriate. This is the age where she is entering the turmoil of teenage years which normally would be mitigated by a stable home life and she does not have that.

I told H that we are grown up adults, educated, and that the therapist does not have to spell it out for us, we should be able to think of what we are to do to handle this.

Left it at that, make him think. I am not going to tell him what to do. I know what I will do.

[angel61]

By the way Grace, still could not find you on the alt.

I was reading your post to tad and cannot help but think of how serene you are. Your screen name suts you to a T - you are so full of grace in your everyday life, and in how you are able to go beyond your pain.

I just am not there yet - far from it. I walk around alternating anger and resentment, with pain and hurt and hopelessness, with times of numbness, and times where I do feel positive and happy and look forward to the future.

I hate it when anger and resentment takes hold, those are the most dangerous times.

But sometimes, especially at times like this when my D's wellbeing is at stake, I feel justified.

Then I feel like taking control. If it were just myself, I would be fine, but with D involved, it is a different story. My maternal, protective instinct rises full force, I am the mama tiger ready to kill anyone and anything that threatens my offspring.

[Grace_O]

I'm not as serene as I'd like. I just keep working on it. I've been here for awhile and dealing with D's stuff (specific to cutting etc) for a couple of years.

I've had to find new and improve old coping mechanisms for myself too. As well as learing to listen with more than my ears (communication thing).

I hate it when anger and resentment takes hold, those are the most dangerous times.

In more ways than one. When it grabs ahold of you, what do you do to contain and then release it?

I am the mama tiger ready to kill anyone and anything that threatens my offspring.

See how much strength you have? One should never get between mama and her cub. (And to those amazing Dad's here, this applies to you too).

It's hard to see just what you're capable of when the lens you're looking through is distorted by the pain, anger etc.

HUGS

[angel61]

Grace,

I have been reading your posts and see so much parallels in our life.

I see you had gone through all the pain and anger that comes with having a live in. I wonder if our H's stayed because they saw the weakness in our D's, or did our D's react in this way, this cutting, because of H's toxic presence?

Just wondering if I should hasten kicking out my H!!!! Is life easier for you now that H is gone? You have not posted for a long time about your sitch. I gather you are doing OK.

I am still trying to search for you on the alt, but can't find you. Perhaps you can search for me instead - look for Anjel.I also am on the "40 day Challenge" - a Lenten challenge hosted by the Extraordinary Mom's Network - I have some posts in that site. You can reply to my posts there.

Thank you for being around, for helping me understand.

Lorie, this goes for you too.

And all my friend out there.

[Grace_O]

Angel,

I wonder if our H's stayed because they saw the weakness in our D's, or did our D's react in this way, this cutting, because of H's toxic presence?

My D wasn't cutting when he lived here, so that was not an issue for him. When she started, I'm sure he talked to her and I'm sure he still does.

I remember once I called him to talk about it with him and when he answered I just totally flipped out. Only did that once though.

I know that he met with D's therapist once. He hasn't contacted her again. He doesn't talk to me directly about the girls anymore. If something serious (life threatening) were to happen, I'd let him know.

Otherwise, I've spent the last few years looking to find a way we could talk about D's without him feeling pressured (and yes, he has said and shown this).

Is life easier for you now that H is gone? You have not posted for a long time about your sitch. I gather you are doing OK.

It became easier after awhile. I didn't "kick him out" or anything. He was gone before he left.

Mach said something once that really struck me as profound (an very true in my case), he was talking about emotional vs legal divorce. My H divorced me emotionally before he ever left.

The last couple of years were really tough (nothing to do with H), but yes, I am doing well. Thanks for asking.

I'll look you up.

How is your D doing today?

[angel61]

Oh well, it was a relatively quiet 2 days. On Friday morning my D had a minor anxiety attack, did not go to school. I had H take care of her as I had too many things at work, and he brought her to work with him. She recovered pretty well, and was eating by lunchtime.

I notice that D is more clingy, wanting someone to sleep with her, and also is praying more. I keep a close eye on her.

D's cousins are visiting from our home country, so that provides her with distractions.

H on the other hand, has been really supportive of D, and also has been acting very nicely towards me. I notice things like the other night, he leaned against me the whole night in bed, and I also snuggled up to him. I think in our shared distress we both look for some warmth and closeness.

H and I went out wine tasting with some friends today while D stayed with her cousins. H was very good, even made some future plans. Our friends saw that there were some concerts planned on one of the wineries we went to and said we should go. H told me to look up the dates in my calendar and said I should reserve the days. This goes all the way to September! That is the longest we go into the future so far. We do have a couple of family trips planned , one this month and another in August. If we maintain the way we interact today we should be fine.

It does seem to me that we are more comfortable together now.

He also has gone back to being dependent on me around the house (for a while I noticed he was making an effort to be independent, as though he wanted to show me I wasn't needed). Like when he dresses up, he again asks me to help him fix his collar, or his shirt - small things. He asked me to pack up his suitcase last night, just like the old H did. H also seems to recover faster when we have little disagreements - in the immediate past, it would set us back and he would be hostile to me for a few days. On Friday AM I had a little setback, as I got irritated with him for looking in the mirror all the time - his MLC vanity, as he was never vain before - that I made a comment on it. He told me to leave him alone. I was worried he would be turned off totally, and true enough he did not call me till the end of the day- but that evening h was really nice to me.

I have refrained from bringing up D's cutting that much in conversation lately, as it seems to cause H a lot of distress. He closes his eyes and takes deep breaths when I do.

H left today for a meeting on the East coast so he will be gone for 3 days. I am worried because when he comes back from meetings he is usually distant, as though being away from me makes him feel his freedom (or lack of it) more acutely.

My sense though is that he is thinking things over, realizing what his actions are doing to his family. In my prayers, I always ask to hear God, and I feel He is telling me that I have to learn compassion and forgiveness, and as long as I could be consistent, our family will get through this intact.

I just keep on praying that I could keep my anger at bay. My biggest challenge at this time is not blaming him for D's actions.

[TAMF]

Angel - I am relieved for you that he is being good with you and your daughter right now when she needs you both so much. Your D and mine are the same age, and it is hard! My D has anxiety attacks all the time as well about our impending divorce. But thank God she is a talker and let's it all out instead of keeping it all inside. This situation has actually made us a lot closer.

I pray for your D - it sounds like you are being strong for her.

[angel61]

Thank you...

H was away for 3 days so that was a break...

He called me late on Sunday, asked for my help in doing his powerpoint as I am the more techie one....I did it for him. Next day, no thank you, although truthfully, that is how he is with me and the rest of his family. With OW and other people, he could be such a perfect gentleman though. It annoys me to think of it. Although as some people say, his true self will come out one day. He never had to put his best foot forward with me, even when we were not married, as we started out as friends.

I had a talk with D about cutting. She wanted to buy a book about it, and I said I first wanted to talk to her therapist about it. I asked her then if she still felt like doing it, and she said yes, but since we keep an eye on her she is not able to do so.


Apparently, she feels it was an awesome thing to do, as though it empowered her.

At least she talks to me about it.

I have such mixed feeling right now that I feel numb.

[Grace_O]

Angel,

There are a few really good books about cutting both non-fiction and fiction, if you would be interested for you. There is also a movie that you might find insightful, it is Thirteen. I would see it without your daughter so you can evaluate its merits.

Apparently, she feels it was an awesome thing to do, as though it empowered her.

Not uncommon. It's something she has control over.

I am so very sorry you and your daughter are having to go through this.

BEAR HUGS