I'm not going to lie and say I haven't fantasized about it she knows this too. The problem is she herself can't get over the idea of me with another woman. A threesome would force her to physically be there. She can't handle that. In fact the day she left she did out of anger over catching me looking at the same site she herself frequents. This arrangement is really toxic for the both of us. I know she knows this but is still adamant on it. Not sure what she needs to prove or find out for herself. As far as I know neither of us crossed the line into a PA or EA. I try to think of this as her having an OM/W who she has not had a PA with yet. I'm trying to apply good DB principles in the hope that the open option loses it's appeal much like an affair loses it's luster. Hopefully good DB will do the trick. As for your questions her idea of open is completely physical the more casual the better. Of course this worries me, but luckily so far that has given her some pause for concern. As for myself I can't do it even with permission, because I care for her, and I know that it would only enable her while creating a chasm between us. I think we would have these encounters more to spite each other. That is not healthy. So I will stay clean and model the M I want. I guess it's like guys whose W have OM getting OW for yourself would be counterproductive even though W keeps claiming it's Ok. We all know it's not :p