The Roller Coaster Keeps on Rolling

[Denver_2010]

Update...

I think that I should follow last night's update with this even though it is short...

W texted me this morning some feelings that she has been having towards SS's school and their treatment of him. I responded by telling her that we could talk about it later when she and I both had time.

SS is suspended from school today. I went over to the place that they are staying and picked him up for some lunch. We went and picked out birthday cards for W and then had some lunch. W's birthday is tomorrow.

W called a little while after I dropped SS off. We talked about her thoughts on the school situation. She asked me if I would call the vice principal and talk to him since I was not there for the meeting on Friday when SS got into trouble.

W and I have exchanged a few more text messages since.

No talk about our conversation last night. I don't expect that there will be for a while.

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement and advice after I posted last night. I'm not going to alter my strategy or behavior much going forward. I'm just going to refocus on the things that have gotten me to this point, ie, patience and being the better man...

BITS
Denver

[cat04]

Have I forgiven my W? I can... I think that I have...

I see you trying to excuse it...by continuing to place the blame on him and her vulnerable state.

Stop making excuses for her. Excuses, make it easier to not feel the anger that we all have when we are betrayed.

The bottom line, it happened.

Forgive that. Not the reason you think she did it.

This advice was given to me once about a situation I encountered and it has stuck with me...

"IF he is truely sorry it will show, and unless you are an ice queen, you'll forgive him..."

I didn't need to go through all of the bull, although I tried to, to find that forgivness, I just looked to see through actions, not words, if it was there.

It really can be that simple.

My problem is with my W's opinion of OM and her inability to see things my way!! This is making me insecure, and causing me to ask for reassurance and validation...

LOL... not funny, I know. But I am recognizing the error of my thinking here.

BAM! My own 2x4 ... thank you very much.

You know, you being a lawyer, makes this a difficult concept for you. However, the truth really is, that you guys are not always going to agree on anything. It isn't possible unless you share a brain.

[Denver_2010]

Have I forgiven my W? I can... I think that I have...

I see you trying to excuse it...by continuing to place the blame on him and her vulnerable state.

Stop making excuses for her. Excuses, make it easier to not feel the anger that we all have when we are betrayed.

The bottom line, it happened.

Forgive that. Not the reason you think she did it.

You just busted me. Thanks. You are right. I'm willing and able to forgive her IF I can justify it.

The fact that she doesn't agree with my opinion of OM, ie, that he is a vulture who preyed on her while she was in a vulnerable state of mind, is making it hard for me to complete the process of forgiveness... if that makes sense.

I need to forgive the fact that it happened... the 'why' does not matter.

LOL... on the lawyer snub!

Thanks Cat.

Denver

[islander]

Denver,

I know you are frustrated, and rightly so, but I still think your are in a very good place right now with your W. I think you should just keep doing what you are doing. It is working. The only thing that is not working is being impatient. You feel like you are so close and it should just happen right now.

One thing I noticed, and it is just my observation, is that once you and your W started talking about R and moving forward, I think you took that as an open door to talk about your R anytime you wanted to. I think sometimes it is ok, but like somebody else has said, listening is probably more important than talking right now. And I don't think I would hardly ever talk about or bring up the OM. you have nothing to gain by this and everything to lose.

You need to imagine, as hard as this is, that you have a new R with your W, and her OM is nothing more than a former boyfriend that you care nothing about. I know when you first met your W, you did not talk about all her former boyfriends and bow bad they were for her. So don't do it now. This is your chance at a new R and M with your W.

Be patient. You are doing great and have made HUGE gains. Just reread some of your older posts and you can't help but see how far you have come.

[Denver_2010]

Thanks Islander. This is why I love this board so much. It is so difficult for us to see so many things in our own situations that are so obvious to us in others' situations. When I post here, I get nuggets of gold from almost everyone who responds.

"The only thing that is not working is being impatient."

"listening is probably more important than talking right now."

"you have a new R with your W, and her OM is nothing more than a former boyfriend that you care nothing about"

ALL nuggets of gold Islander. Thanks.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

Hi Denver,

It's the toughest thing for a man to let a woman get all of her words out that have to do with feelings and every little thought. While you do have to LISTEN, and you have--you don't have to put so much weight on every word.

SO true! Classic Mars- and Venus-speak.


Starsky

What do you mean classic Mars- and Venus- speak???

I'm curious.

[Denver_2010]

Update...

I think that I should follow last night's update with this even though it is short...

W texted me this morning some feelings that she has been having towards SS's school and their treatment of him. I responded by telling her that we could talk about it later when she and I both had time.

SS is suspended from school today. I went over to the place that they are staying and picked him up for some lunch. We went and picked out birthday cards for W and then had some lunch. W's birthday is tomorrow.

W called a little while after I dropped SS off. We talked about her thoughts on the school situation. She asked me if I would call the vice principal and talk to him since I was not there for the meeting on Friday when SS got into trouble.

W and I have exchanged a few more text messages since.

No talk about our conversation last night. I don't expect that there will be for a while.

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement and advice after I posted last night. I'm not going to alter my strategy or behavior much going forward. I'm just going to refocus on the things that have gotten me to this point, ie, patience and being the better man...

BITS
Denver

W texted me tonight from her band rehearsal.... Just small talk.

I may disappear for the most part over the next 2 weeks. I have a trial that is out of town so I'm just not going to have much time to post. Just don't want anyone to worry.

BITS
Denver

[cat04]

Denver,

Men and women communicate differently. Men usually need few words, especially words that relate to emotions. Women need lots of words more often that not. To say the exact same thing.

The problem lies in the translations. LOL

Read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. You will understand then.

[Truegritter]

Denver

I have been sitting back so you will have a chance to let some of this great advice sink in.

A few observations and questions.

First I see your W still playing the victim.

Ok you did some things you're not proud of and you have looked at WHAT you did and more importantly WHY.

When we gain this awareness we start by feeling horrible and guilty about our choices and our behavior.

We set about changing those things in ourselves.

Now

Where is you W in this process?

You have said you are on eggshells yes?

Why are you on eggshells?

What are you afraid of?

That she will not choose to come back to the M?

Or

If she comes back that she will choose at some point that you are not acting the way she needs you to act.

Then

She will walk away?

She is still the victim in her mind here and you are the perpetrator.

I am sorry my friend that is the way I see it.

And you are reinforcing it by pleading with her and apologizing and doing everthing you can so she will consider reconciling.

Who committed the greater crimes in your M?

Well if your going to value the crimes and the punishments then do it.

What if I said someone walking away is the greatest crime in a M? More than emotional abuse that caused it?

One man's festering wound is another man's salvation.

It all very personal to the person so you will end up arguing who was the bigger a$$hole.

My point?

Your W has to stop being the victim here and seeing you as the perp.

Otherwise how can you trust her not to run to the next OM who makes her feel special.

You can either reinforce this idea of hers or not participate in it.

Which one will give you a NEW marriage and one that YOU can trust?

This will take some fortitude and courage on your part because it means letting her be free to make her choices.

And you

Understanding that is the only path back to a healthy M.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

What do you mean classic Mars- and Venus- speak???

I'm curious.

Example:

When women talk about their day and problems, they do it to vent and de-stress. My wife does.

When men talk about their day and problems, they are looking for insight, advice.

When my wife talked about problems, I was always trying to offer advice and ways to fix problems, when she didn't try any of my help, I got to the point of tuning her out. "Why is she asking me if she isn't going to listen to me?"

Problem was, she never was asking for advice, she just needed me to listen to her day. And with my wife...5 minutes of real time drama = 5 minutes of talking time drama : ) .

When I talked, I was looking for advice, but she just nodded along and listened and didn't offer any.

We both were doing what we wanted the other to do, without telling the other, Mars Venus.

Now? When my wife talks about her day, about 10 minutes in I ask if she wants advice or if she is just venting, normally it is just venting so I interject the appropriate nods and 'uh-huhs'.

And if I am looking for advice, I tell her before hand.

If I'm looking for a fight? I tell her that scientific studies have proven that men make better scrambled eggs than women and are better at spatial relations.