As far as not being angry and bitter. I don't know how else to let her go, and move on, other than to shut her out of my life emotionally.
You move forward, not on......
You live your life for now, and you give her time and space to figure this out.
You let her go to find herself, not out of anger, but because that is what you would want from her, if you flaked out.
You listen and understand that this is something she has to do for now.
You find that love that you feel for her and use it to set her free. To hope she finds happiness in her life because that is what you want for her, too....
Originally Posted By: Paper
I would bet if I had a love interest on the side, it would be easy to forget her (like she has me).
And I would make a counter-bet that you would be seen here again in a few years asking "what happened again? "
Originally Posted By: Paper
But I have more morals and character than that, so I will not and would not.
That's a pretty high horse to fall off of...
Originally Posted By: Paper
Suggestions how to move on without using my anger to emotionally separate from her?
They are all over this board. Read other threads , post to others.
So I'm supposed to just sit back and "love her" by letting her does who knows what with whoever? I don't know that I am strong enough to accept that. I know I am not. To let her find herself other than that for sure. I could totally do that.
I get all of that fully giving her space and time but never if it includes giving her space to try try other relationships to see how she feels about it and then allow her to come back to me
If she is in contact with OM and even sees him when we go home I am supposed to just sit back?
I do love her deeply and am willing to put up with alot of her finding herself but if it extends to her fooling around emotionally or otherwise that is my limit. NO WAY I could accept her pursuing him any further than she has and not feel pure betrayal and hatred for her more than I do.
Just to be clear. I would never ever go out in her unless we were totally done. Not in my character. I would never so what she has done. Ever.
So I'm supposed to just sit back and "love her" by letting her does who knows what with whoever? I don't know that I am strong enough to accept that. I know I am not. To let her find herself other than that for sure.
Paper,
First of all...
Let her?
Can you even control it? Do you dictate her actions?
If you do, I can see why she would not want to be married anymore...
Control is control no matter what color you try to paint it...
Her having an A, may not be fair to you...
You treating her like property, isn't really fair to her...
Originally Posted By: Paper
I get all of that fully giving her space and time but never if it includes giving her space to try try other relationships to see how she feels about it and then allow her to come back to me
So you can do this if she only gives you what YOU want and not what she wants?...
Originally Posted By: Paper
I do love her deeply and am willing to put up with alot of her finding herself but if it extends to her fooling around emotionally or otherwise that is my limit. NO WAY I could accept her pursuing him any further than she has and not feel pure betrayal and hatred for her more than I do.
If you already feel hatred for her then maybe you need to reexamine your love for her.
It is with conditions apparantly.
Not the kind of love I would want to have in my life again.
Originally Posted By: Paper
Just to be clear. I would never ever go out in her unless we were totally done. Not in my character. I would never so what she has done. Ever.
Hope the landing from the soapbox isn't too hard for you...
Paper,
We never know what life is going to throw at us.
We don't know until we are faced with an actual situation, how we will handle it, how we will react...
If you want to really make an effort to save your marriage, or not have a future relationship go sour...
You need to change your though patterns...
Dealing in nevers, always, and superior thinking, will only get you back here.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
For sure I am a control freak in most aspects of my life. However, I don't believe that I have been this way in my marriage. I always hated seeing men who told their wives what to do and how to do it. I am not a jealous husband, or limiting in what she would do with her free time, or her friends.
Now, for sure I have been needy, smothering, an always wanting more emotional and physical contact with her (especially as she pulled further and further away in hindsight over the last year or so).
I have never been one to dictate what she does, or such. However "let her" is maybe the wrong choice of my words. What I mean is boundaries. She can do whatever she wants, that is her choice, she is her own person. My "boundary" is another relationship. If she continues that relationship emotionally or physically, the result is that I will end the relationship. That is my boundary.
Maybe I do have "property" issues with my wife. Certainly THE MOST hard part of all of this is the thought of her pining away for someone else, and the thought of her in the arms happy with someone else. Her have sexual relations with even one man one time would taint my thoughts of the relationship that I could never be with her again, period. It seems silly though to look at it in any other light, that I should have reasonable expectations even in these dark days, that we are still married and exclusive in our intimate relationships.
I have read so many posts on this forum about people patiently waiting while their spouse is continuing an affair, or even living with the OP. I'm sorry, maybe I am weak, but that is not me. I do not have the strength to deal with that and stay sane.
Now, if she needs her space, her freedom, to figure out what she wants in life, I can be patient and handle that. She could move out, have a place on her own, we would share the kids, she would have her job, she would spend time with friends, have her own money, be on her own totally, and so on. I can and if it comes to that, will deal with all of that with (very difficult) patience while I also move forward. But if her finding herself includes any kind of other relationships, the answer is no, it is over. I can't do that.
I would also expect nothing less of her. If I cheated on her, I would expect her to want an immediate divorce and be so angry she would want to cut off my pecker. I would deserve it. Funny thing is I had asked some time back in a heated discussion, what if I went out and had sex with another woman tonight? She said she is so disconnected she wouldn't care, it wouldn't matter.
Thank you for giving me some things to think about. While maybe it seems I am arguing with you, in fact I appreciate the counter points and challenging of my thought process. This is probably alot of what I need.
I think I need to get a counselor to talk to. What you are challenging me with is good for me and I suspect what a good counselor would do for me. I went to one session with the MC my wife and I attended originally, but we both hated him (in the joint session and when I went on my own), so I need to find someone else I can do counseling by phone.
In the talk my wife and I had this week, I probably asked too many questions that allowed her/I to plan out our return home, her job, precipitating her separation. But it was necessary due to logistics. I don't want to ask so much she is forced to lay out a plan which she will then follow through on, but some things simply have to be planned for such a big change / early move back.
As we calmly had a discussion about how we were both feeling, she made clear to me that there was no choice we had to move back this year for the school needs of our S5. Because of this "stake in the ground" I have no choice but to start making some firm plans. That led me to ask some questions about what does she think plans for her/us are? That is when she laid out her plan to go home, enroll the kids in school, get her job lined up, and move into her own place. She said "that is what I was thinking" in a kind of uncertain manner. Almost like she wanted to see my reaction, but a bit unsure if this was still her plan also. I asked what kind of place and she said a rental place. I did not blow up, did not react, just listened, and we briefly discussed some logistics that she was going to contact the guy about her job, and I would wait for that timing before I told them anything at my work. Because of my early departure, they will have the help find me an appropriate role back home now, and also we have to arrange to cover the 2nd year of my job here.
I still hope that through her suggested MC for us, that she changes her mind about moving out. I also hope that if she does still insist to move out, that we can agree on a healthy separation with rules, such as neither of us seeing other people. I can do all of this. If she refuses that rule, that is the final answer then. We will see.
So for now, I am back on the wagon of living, doing what needs to be done for planning, but not to ask anything, or push anything until it is necessary such as her moving out.
One interesting thing. The MC we met with once we agreed was not good. During the one hour session he did not steer the conversation, rarely asked anything, and had asked us if we were in or out to proceed. Her individual counselor said this was wrong, and not productive to force couples in trouble if they are in or out, it forces the issue wrongly as opposed to just working on what needs to be worked on.
Should I find another MC for us when we get back, or is that too much pressure? She has one here where we live who speaks English - she is going to see this person first, and then see if they are appropriate for us together MC. I hope this person is, we really need some basic help.
She lied right to my face today. Minor but still it upset me. I took the kids to school and picked them up. That means she had a 100% free day.
She told me part of her day was a nice workout. I know she did not (won't go into details how I know but I am absolutely certain with no shadow of a doubt). This is not the first time I know she lied about that issue.
The issue is not the workout but that she tells me face to face how she had such a nice workout (at home with DVD's). But that she can so directly lie to me. Makes me more sure she can lie about just anything easily to me.
It's not that I believe everything she says these days but makes me wonder what else she is keeping from me or lying about.
Ugh. Hard days. I know I need to not care bit when she voluntarily tells me about her day and lies what am I supposed to think?
How I know: I did the laundary today and there were no workout clothes as normal after her workout. Plus no DVD in the computer or around the desk. Finally all workout stuff was still scattered as the day before under the guest bed and in the cabinet.
Why would she lie? Can't figure that out other than she told me in the morn when I took kids to school that she was going to work out.
Instead I worked my butt off at work with ridiculouseetong abd stress and she went shopping to buy some shoes and no doubt hung out at cafes all day and read all day. Now we are going out for dinner. Ok but weak.
Last night she was so nice and we had great connection before I went out with friends. Today she just shunned me and didn't want to talk at all. As I write this she is upstairs just sitting on the bed reading which us what she does to disconnect from the family.
I need to simply live life, and love her while she figures this out. Up to a limit (PA, EA).
Most of my hobbies, friends, and things I like to do are back home. Here I have work, gym, kids, and that is it. When I get free time to myself, I don't know what to do with it. I will watch a movie, or hang out on the computer, but nothing more. There simply isn't anymore more for me here where we live.
Since Feb between my wife and I: - We don't say good morning or good night (unless I initiate it) - No kisses - No hugs - No spooning in bed (a fave for both of us) - Zero time spent together just the two of us - no dinners out, no watching TV, nothing. - Family time all together is rare other than dinner. Used to go all on bike rides, go out to a local park, etc. It's like she is forcing the family to be a bit split up ahead of her plans. - When the family is all home, she mostly retreats either on the computer or reading upstairs. Things between us are starting to feel very stale. I don't even know what to say to her anymore. The lack of depth in our conversations is very obvious.
Her moods and our relations way up and down. Some days, she is nice (but still disconnected). The next day doesn't even look at me and one word answers.
This morning I gave her a kiss goodbye, I just really needed it, even though it was probably a bit unwelcome and odd. This morning in bed I was struggling with my thoughts, remembering all the real connection we used to have, and the intimacy we have shared both physically and otherwise. Not bad to think about those, but it makes things much harder.
I have 2 very specific questions I would appreciate input on from a DB/DR perspective:
1) Our 14 year anniversary is coming up in 3 weeks, and I am not sure what to do. I am not sure if I should ask her if she wants to go to dinner, or get the babysitter, or what? I originally had a weekend away to Paris planned before all this happened.
2) What is the DB/DR perspective on trying to set up rules for separation? My wife is planning to find her own place and move out. I would very much like to see us agree on rules, such as not seeing other people. Opinions?
Reminder, here is our current status: M14 yrs D8 S6 ILYB speech Nov 2010 I want a divorce speech March 1, 2010
MC one session. Nothing since
She has an EA (married, 2 kids) from former work. She said it developed over last year they worked together. They kissed "passionately" once when they recently had lunch. (divorce speech followed the next week).
She has said she still feels the same. Feels nothing for me at all, wants out, and wants a divorce to have her freedom, and find passion in her life again.
Wants to put the kids priorities first in divorce, and has no desire to fight over anything.
We live in the same house, sleep in the same bed. Strained discussions, zero physical contact. No arguing (nothing to argue about).
Been DB/LRT serious for about 5-6 weeks. Doing ok disconnecting and not doing anything like pressure. BUT not doing well finding myself and finding my life of me. I am not displaying well my attractive side. Not down exactly, just more like a zombie around the house, except I really enjoy my kids, I am happy and upbeat with them.
We live a very long way from home temporarily. Was supposed to be 2 years, but we will go home early this summer due to this.
I read this today in the success stories, and I am posting it here to remind myself every time I read this thread.
1 - Stop negative momentum 2 - create atmosphere where spouse feels comfortable contacting you and spending time with you. STOP THE PRESSURE AND GET A LIFE 3 - Learn to detatch from the rejection, not from your spouse. There is a difference. 4 - Create mystery not jealousy. 5 - Forgive when they return 6 - Make your changes real. Do it for yourself not to trick your spouse.
1) Our 14 year anniversary is coming up in 3 weeks, and I am not sure what to do. I am not sure if I should ask her if she wants to go to dinner, or get the babysitter, or what? I originally had a weekend away to Paris planned before all this happened.
I think if you were to initiate anything, it would be considered pursuing. Since you are working on the LRT, don't pursue. Let her initiate if you're going to do anything at all.
Originally Posted By: Paper
BUT not doing well finding myself and finding my life of me. I am not displaying well my attractive side. Not down exactly, just more like a zombie around the house, except I really enjoy my kids, I am happy and upbeat with them.
It is VERY important to GAL when doing the LRT. I have found that GAL has vastly improved my mental health and it has stirred curiousity with my WAW. Don't forget about your kids, though. Try to balance the GAL with spending time with your kids, OR incorporate your kids in at least some of the your GAL activities.
