W comes back from her business trip today. Oddly, I don't want to see her. I'm tried from six days of kid duty, and I haven't gotten a thing done at work. I want to hear about her trip - but only to find out how much time she spent out with boss and what they did....a recipe for disaster! I'll never be able to sit there and listen to her talk in her usual way about how "nice" and "smart" and "good to her" he is.
I'm just SO angry at how I ended up in this situation.
Realized last night one reason I am angry. I don't understand why my W dismisses my feelings about concerns I've had. Realized that if she ever expressed any concern about emails I was getting from a women I simply make it stop. I wouldn't be overly concerned about WHY it bothered her or try to convince her that she was being unreasonable. If something was bothering my W enough to affect her life and our M I would simply make it go away. The fact she won't tells me A LOT, doesn't it?
I can't believe I've put myself in this situation - by basically not standing up for what I feel is right and what I need, or even the important things W and I have agreed to. I do it to make her happy, but feel taken advantage of and resentful.
I should have simply gone ballastic when those emails arrived and not given in instead I sort kinda mentioned it after I steamed about it for days, and when she got mad I backed off, as usual. Now, to W bringing it up would be "dredging up the past".
My goal: be as upbeat as possible when W returns. Don't expect problems. Listen. If W goes on and on about boss as usual I will be direct and calm and say "Honey, I don't really want to hear about how great your boss is right now" and find somewhere else to be. Don't get pissy, or rude. Just switch the topic, or leave.
If for some reason I fail at this and we do have an argument - I will not feed it. I also am NOT going to give in or have my concerns dismissed, and I will not justify WHY I feel a certain way. Short, calm, direct statements - my truth, whether or not I think she's going to like it.
I can't believe I've put myself in this situation - by basically not standing up for what I feel is right and what I need, or even the important things W and I have agreed to. I do it to make her happy, but feel taken advantage of and resentful.
So having identified this how will you calmly, confidently 180 this behavior? In the past my knee jerk would have been to angrily confront, or drone on and on trying to get W to agree with me. I know now that neither would be constructive in my sitch.
Originally Posted By: Still learning
I should have simply gone ballastic when those emails arrived and not given in instead I sort kinda mentioned it after I steamed about it for days, and when she got mad I backed off, as usual. Now, to W bringing it up would be "dredging up the past".
IMO going ballistic is easily dismissed by someone who is detached as “there he goes on another rant, I am righteous in my decision to leave”. My WAS is pretty detached, so this is easy for her.
You are right it is in the past. IMO it should remain there. In the future calmly set the boundary.
Originally Posted By: Still learning
My goal: be as upbeat as possible when W returns. Don't expect problems. Listen. If W goes on and on about boss as usual I will be direct and calm and say "Honey, I don't really want to hear about how great your boss is right now" and find somewhere else to be. Don't get pissy, or rude. Just switch the topic, or leave.
Good goal, tough to achieve in your sitch, but you know it already and knowledge equips you make a plan, execute it. Be in control of yourself.
Originally Posted By: Still learning
If for some reason I fail at this and we do have an argument - I will not feed it. I also am NOT going to give in or have my concerns dismissed, and I will not justify WHY I feel a certain way. Short, calm, direct statements - my truth, whether or not I think she's going to like it.
Sounds confrontational IMO better to leave than to confront if you cannot defuse it.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
JS - your post made me realize what I was about to do was a mistake. I've been cycling through fear, depression, and anger. JTBs pointed out that his is common. I sort of LIKED the anger I've been feeling actually - made me feel motivated and less helpless.
But you're right. Digging up old discussions and "replaying" them in the hope of getting it right this time isn't going to help my situation. Especially when W returns from her trip. And having an angry confrontation can easily make me seem out of control. I know, I know.
**But I'm very confused about what to do next.** I can 180 and project confidence and cool and reap those rewards - but at some point don't I have to have this conversation with my W?
The individual events, which W explains away, paint a picture of a EA. And the stress that causes me is the BIG obstacle between the man I am and the man I want to be. If I don't respond I feel like I am just accepting this OM.
I feel like I need to have this conversation without having it.....know what I mean?
I need to get the plan set in my mind because I don't think quickly or clearly enough in front of W to wing it.
I think confrontation is what you need SL. You wife says she had no respect for you. Do you think silently tolerating the OM in your W's life, is going to make her magically respect you?
The question is what kind of confrontation - clearly you can't have an angry discussion. I believe there are ways of handling this. I think you have gently, but firm bring up your concerns about the emails, text and flirting with OM. Because he is her Boss, you will have to decide what you can live with before the discussion starts. I think you have to be clear in how this makes YOU feel. She has all the facts, so it's easy for her to dismiss it if nothing is going on.
Honestly, I think it's your wife's best professional interest to stop thing with her boss. Even if it totally harmless, it's playing with fire. I don't care if he was an HR lawyer (they can do stupid things too) Ask if her this, if there was a problem and all these texts and emails went before a jury(and they would), how would they look? Still harmless? I've read enough cases where what some people considered harmless got a lot of people in hot water.
First any discussion is going to automatically put her on the defensive. Know that going in. If she is truly doing nothing then she will feel like you don't trust her, etc. If she is doing something they she may try to downplay it or dismiss your concerns. But you have to get through that initial response and keep your cool. Keep hammering home your point. If you have to make a central theme in your mind and stick to it.
Lastly, if you are worried about not thinking clearly or reacting in front of your W. Practice what you are going to say OUTLOUD. In the mirror, in the car, in the shower. Start by writing it down if you have to. Try to imagine her responses and address them If you have practice it enough times, when you really have the talk you can be clear and focuses. I do this all the time.
Remember, this is my view there are lot of differing views. Some go further than I would by exposing the EA to the OM's W. some say do nothing and let it fizzle out on its won
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
**But I'm very confused about what to do next.** I can 180 and project confidence and cool and reap those rewards - but at some point don't I have to have this conversation with my W?
I do not disagree with Harrier, IMO you do need to have that conversation. The question is when, and I cannot know that. You might and one of the DB coaches probably can help you determine when.
Please forgive this folksy analogy; I grew up on a small family farm.
I can plant turnip seeds now and most of them will rot. The ground is too cold and wet.
I can plant turnip seeds in two months and most of them will produce, grub eaten wormy bulbs
If I wait until after mid summer the turnip seeds I plant will produce turnips I can sell.
Timing!
As important as timing is your demeanor. IMO, when you’re having a conversation like this listening and observing is more important than what you are saying.
Anger can motivate and confrontation might be constructive in the right circumstance, but you must be in control of yourself listening and observing to decide when to dial the conversation back.
Anger and confrontation got me where I am; into this sitch I was not in control of myself, be careful.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
Thanks gentlemen. About to walk over to get W and head home. I'm in a much better place. I will have this conversation with her, but not now.
Harrier, I read something this afternoon I wish I could paste here - but I don't want to violate any copyrights. Taoism appeals to my personality sometimes - I don't know why - and there is a story about potatoes and forgiveness in The Tao of Daily Life Derek Lin, Chapter 12 Forgiveness.
My summary of the old story he discusses: Teacher tells student to carve the name of people who have wronged him on potatoes, then carry them around on his back for a week in a sack. Easy at first, the sack seems to get heavier, then starts to reek. After a week, the teacher asks what the sstudent has learned and he points out, obviously: we carry around the weight of those we don't forgive until it stinks. So the teacher says empty the sack. Student says but there always people against us, putting potatoes into our sack. Teachers says - tehn get rid of the sack. The sack represents that about us that carries insults around. Supposely, it's the start on the path to true forgiveness, or not feeling insulted in the first place.....
There's also a nice section on seeing others points of view and the pointlessness of arguing later on.....
and darn it if there's not a section disucssing J3Bs train analogy. Man, these proverbs are 4600 years old.....
Gentlemen really, thank you for reading through all these texts. It's been a long week.
Met W and got a nice hug. Kept it very light and calm. Went very well. Did find out that group stayed up all night and at 2:40 am W went looking for bosses' hotel room (airport run was at 4:30). Trying to consider the positive: means that W didn't know where his room was during most of trip, no indication she ever found it that night. Went to play in my playoff game - found it very difficult to play, guys confronted me afterwards asking what was wrong. Kept it fairly general but they were reaaly great. Though I don't get out to see them very much these days and I am starting to relize how much I've withdrawn they were really great. Returned home and W went to bed, sleepng so far to the side of the bed she has one leg off and has built and sort of wall of pillows between us. I couldn't sleep.
Good news: I really did a good job being cool and calm. Bad news - somethings up.
Taking JS's advice about timing. Doing the calm / confident 180 thing and focusing on family this weekend. Took family and a few friends out for a free orienteering class - felt like we were on the amazing race. Even S5 kept up. Good family team building, I hope. Because this is sort of up my alley got to do some family "leading" and teaching kids. Highly recommend - besides, it's free. Avoided several conversations that were bound to go wrong, avoided complaining about ANYTHING (well, almost), tried to stay positive...actually, avoiding one of those situations right now.
