WAW tearing up our family part II

[Queen_of_Swords]

She can explain to D how that happened when it comes time. That's not my problem either. As a parent, you want to protect your kids from pain ... but I can't do it. If W is going to screw up this little girl's childhood, there is unfortunately not much I can do about it besides make sure that the time she spends with me is good. Already, daughter is gravitating towards me more than W.

Oh man I feel you here. I resist the urge frequently to tell our kids exactly where things stand. It's not my place. Actions have consequences and so does inaction. H made a choice and the explaining of the why is on him. I can only be the best Mommy I know how to be, and my kids miss me a lot when they're on visitation with their Dad. Ultimately, H. will be the loser, it's so sad he can't see that.

And, I am working on being more sympathetic to what she's experiencing. But, I am REALLY not sure that I can respect her anymore. Just because somebody is confused and going thru pain .... just make anything they do justifiable. While INSANITY may be a valid legal defense, it doesn't make it ok for the victims.

Even the crazy people deserve basic respect for their humanity Ironman. You don't have to respect or agree with what she does, you don't have to support her lousy decision making either. Compassion IronMan, she really isn't aware of what she's doing.
She's flying by the seat of her pants and her emotional state of the moment, there is no higher cognitive functioning going on, not in any real sense. Her emotions cause her to react, the reasoning is not there.
Just like a little kid. A child playing with a ball kicks or throws it into the street, and chases it. So focused on that ball are they that they don't see the truck barrelling down the street toward them. It's that level of awareness you're dealing with IMHO.



You sound like you're in a good emotional place Ironman. Keep it up. You sound strong and confident in what you write.

[OnMyWay]

ironman,

Perhaps it is time you begin "supporting" her decisions. Honestly, her moving out might just be the biggest "wake-up" call of her life. I've been having issues w/ my W and for some dumb reason have been letting her win. I know her new sitch has gotten worse. She now resents me and seems to want to D more than ever, yet she hasn't come to the full realization that she is responsible for her own actions. I'm not sure she can deal with it as the anger in her is building. She recognizes that this is all effed up, but has no knowledge (or desire) of how to fix it. I thinks she's just not there yet. Time to let her cook a little more, cool off, and then hopefully guide her back home, while letting her think it is her decision.

If you W tells you she needs to go, understand & encourage her to do so. You know you can't control what she thinks or how she feels, so just be supportive and understanding. It is kind of like calling her bluff. She'll probably decide not to go, but if she does, then it is on her to live with the consequences. It won't take her long to figure out her mistake, even though she'll probably never let on. Not your problem.

She is going through a very difficult time. No doubt about that. If you can recognize that, then you can put yourself in a position to "help." The ultimate love is to let her go. If you can put yourself in a place where you have an "understanding," you'll be less likely to be resentful. It can be a very hard thing to do, but in the end, it might just save your marriage. Don't do what I do and fall into the "fighting to be right" trap. Be a better man than me. You'll feel much better about yourself in the end, no matter what happens.

[ironMan]

Wow, thanks, onMyWay. I needed that.

I've had a bad few days as far as anger goes. W is dressing sexy to go to work ... baby is screaming for daddy all the time and wants pretty much nothing to do with W .... W is pouting about it ... and everything just makes me want to scrream "get the F out .... you want out .... you got it honey! Good f-ing luck"

But, I don't scream it. I do know my anger has shown though. And W pouts like a child about it.

A child .... is the best way to describe her lately.

But, yeah. I'm ready to let her go. I think she'll move soon anyway. I'm kind of looking forward to her leaving. I think it'll be easier for me to be her friend when she's not around all the time.

People have posted the stages of grieving here many times. Mine seems to consist of

bargaining
anger
anger
anger
more anger

lol ..... but ... I've always been a bit of an angry imp. I mean as long as I can remember. I've used agner and spite to propel me to great heights in every area of my life ... obviously except my R.

I just have to be understanding, as you say. And .. some days are better than others for me here. I go back and forth between "She must be hurting badly to think this is a better choice" ....... and then I go to "I can't even respect a woman who would do this to her family .... and I don't want somebody like that for the rest of my life. I deserve better"

So ..... spin the wheel ..... no idea where I'll end up.

[zengypsy]

ironman,

Perhaps it is time you begin "supporting" her decisions. Honestly, her moving out might just be the biggest "wake-up" call of her life. I've been having issues w/ my W and for some dumb reason have been letting her win. I know her new sitch has gotten worse. She now resents me and seems to want to D more than ever, yet she hasn't come to the full realization that she is responsible for her own actions. I'm not sure she can deal with it as the anger in her is building. She recognizes that this is all effed up, but has no knowledge (or desire) of how to fix it. I thinks she's just not there yet. Time to let her cook a little more, cool off, and then hopefully guide her back home, while letting her think it is her decision.

If you W tells you she needs to go, understand & encourage her to do so. You know you can't control what she thinks or how she feels, so just be supportive and understanding. It is kind of like calling her bluff. She'll probably decide not to go, but if she does, then it is on her to live with the consequences. It won't take her long to figure out her mistake, even though she'll probably never let on. Not your problem.

She is going through a very difficult time. No doubt about that. If you can recognize that, then you can put yourself in a position to "help." The ultimate love is to let her go. If you can put yourself in a place where you have an "understanding," you'll be less likely to be resentful. It can be a very hard thing to do, but in the end, it might just save your marriage. Don't do what I do and fall into the "fighting to be right" trap. Be a better man than me. You'll feel much better about yourself in the end, no matter what happens.

This is good stuff OnMyWay. Totally where my head is at. My STXH gave the if you love something set it free quote and he said that we have to learn how to live our lives w/o each other. OK....I can do that! I'm becoming a better person each and every day. And guess what? I really like who I am now!! Do you really like who you are??!!

Remember, people who initate D always act (key word) like they are happy. They want to present a strong front and that life is a bed of roses since they dumped us. The lies will eventually catch up!

Here's a great quote Truegritter..."I hope you find the happiness you are looking for. Go do what you need to do. You know where I will be."

[OnMyWay]

That's right Zen, we can't control other people. Something I should know as I have been a master manipulator in my life & relationships. However, once you realize that we can't control (nor should we want to) others, it is a BIG relief. I think, in the end, R are better, too, as being together becomes a mutual choice between equals, as apposed to one person trying to keep another around against their will.

ironMan, I hear and understand your frustration, bother. I'm sure your wife is dressing sexy for work because there is someone there complimenting her and she is DESPERATE to feel something good about herself right now. I'm glad you are noticing she's making a change. Have you complimented her on it? You should do so without being forward or manipulative. It's simple, if she looks good to you simply tell her how it makes you feel as a man. She will probably appreciate it. Wouldn't you say so Zen (the woman's perspective)?

Also, iM, remember, DBing is more about you getting yourself in the right place in life than it is about your WAW finding herself or making the "right" decision. You gotta get your head on straight, man. If you know anger is an issue for you, you'd better figure out how to get a handle on it. I know how tough it is. For every little "victory" we have in this process, there is at least a seemingly equal defeat to knock us back down. As I stated over on my thread, I've used the whole "No More Mr. Nice Guy" thing to help me push myself farther along in the "me" process, as it has highlighted issues in myself I never considered before. True self discovery is a huge part of this and I am beginning to embrace that fact. I will be better in the end.

Don't give up on your wife. Don't push her out. Try to see it from her side. Know she is in pain and this is not easy for her. It doesn't make sense to us what our WAW's are doing, but in their minds, they feel as if they have no other options left. Let go of it all and drop your anger. She is desperate and cannot help herself any longer. You must be the man and provide her with better options from which to choose (and it must be her choice, don't influence, or it won't work). Get outside the box - and do it now. My wife and I have been fighting a lot lately. My DB Coach asked me what we fight about, and my honest response was, "We fight about who's more right."

Be sure to be honest with yourself when you ask, "What do I want: to be right, to be angry, to be rid of her, or to have my marriage come back better than it ever was before?" Figure out your true goal, then do only what works in achieving that goal - which is not necessarily the same as doing what you want to do or saying what you want to say. Take it from me, that is a lesson I'm learning the hard way.

[OnMyWay]

ironMan, I've reread your post again, and I think it's time for some tough brotherly lover here:

I do know my anger has shown though. And W pouts like a child about it.

A child .... is the best way to describe her lately.

Stop letting your anger show through. You want her to act different, be different yourself. Be the change you want in your R. Time to stop blaming her for everything. Time to man up an look deep within yourself, brother. This is not all her fault, and you know it. Unfortunately, reality is a b!tch.

I go back and forth between "She must be hurting badly to think this is a better choice" ....... and then I go to "I can't even respect a woman who would do this to her family .... and I don't want somebody like that for the rest of my life. I deserve better"

Yes, you do deserve better, but like it or not you have to accept you've had a definitive hand in the way things are in your M. So, if you want better, be better. How you might ask? Start by going first and do it because it is the right thing to do, while expect nothing in return. If she thinks leaving is a better choice, then you need to step up and prove her wrong by your action, not by your judgement or your anger.

You are a man in a tight spot. You are a BITS. We are all in this together. I believe it is my responsibility to tell you to man up and do the right thing for your family regardless of what your W does. Put you ego aside and choose to be a man, a husband, and a father. I'm here to help keep you straight, because I believe you do deserve better. And you will get it. Stay focused.

[AJM80]

IronMan - remember not to make assumptions. I found that trying to break the cycle of thinking I knew why H was acting how he was acting really twisted my head and heart. Half the time, I don't think they even know why they do what they do. So, you see her dressy sexy for work and think she's being a tramp. How do you know she isn't desparate for compliments, as mentioned by someone else, or trying to keep a line on you/keep you interested....you don't know and really, as kooky as they are right now, the motivation could change every 5 seconds.

So, as far as the anger goes, it sounds like you are minimizing the impact on your daughter - that's good. I decided that I cannot change my H, but I was going to do my da--dest to keep him for "making me" a bitter, angry divorcee. Her leaving does give you a break to deal with the anger and be able to have some peace/space.

Good luck - thinking of you.

[FellOnBlackDays]

Iron,
Do what you can to keep your cool, brother. Let me give you a little advice from someone that is a bit further down the road that no one ever wants to travel. First, trying to figure out her actions will drive you insane, no doubt. I have had to work very hard to stop myself from doing the same thing. WAS's are screwed up individuals who have no back up plan. Right now, her plan could be falling apart and she has no idea what she is doing. Who knows? But there is one thing I do know... trying to figure it out will make you more angry and cause more issues.
Second, the anger will fade, I promise you. About six weeks ago, my anger started to fade and I think you have noticed that in my posts. I no longer think about revenge or how much I hate her for leaving. When the anger fades, you will get some clarity that you will need to continue. My clarity hit me like a ton of bricks. It was the day I realized that she had to leave because I was a real S.O.B. to be married to....

Don't worry, buddy. That anger will pass. It has to or you will end up one screwed up individual. Look, for right now, don't fight it. Write letters to yourself and hide them. Come here and vent. Let yourself experience the anger. It is OK. If you don't it will haunt you longer than it must. Just make sure that you don't let that anger get anywhere near your daughter or your wife. I know, it keeps you warm. For nights after my w left, my anger kept me company. Let it do it's job for now. But, be on the lookout for the day when that anger is not so appealing... it will come, I promise you, my friend.

Hang in there!

FOBD

[verysad2day]

[b]"Second, the anger will fade"

It does my friend, I was sooooooo angry 3 months ago, 3 weeks ago, 3 days ago. Today, not so much. I "almost" feel sorry for my H that he is walking away from so much (my tude changes daily, today I am on a roll) It is the WAS that has EVERYTHING to loose. Not us, all we have to loose is our spouse. We have a whole life ahead. They, the WAS, will always have some sense of "what if". Forever a WAS will feel some empty space in their heart. That is on them~

[ironMan]

FOBD, thank you very much. I had a good argument with other BITS today .. and got to work some of this out. Your words here mean a lot to me. I know you are right. I even feel better this afternoon and have been perfectly nice around W. The times I struggle are when D is noticeable distressed. She always wants daddy now ... and want mommy and daddy to hug. We're not fighting .. but she already wants her parents together and that kills me. But, I know this makes me angry .... so I need to see it coming, and pull some of that Muad Dhib (Dune) stuff on it.

verysad2day .... thanks for that ... I hope to follow in your footsteps.