How long should you try? Until........

[MichelleLT]

It's worse to be 30 miles away and have more emotional distance. Take my word on that.

My XH went weeks without contacting me and worked hard to avoid me around town. It was agony wondering every time I went out to eat if I was going to have to see him and OW.

That doesn't mean what you are going through isn't painful, but you need to put it in perspective. You have a lot of contact, and the physical distance is less than the emotional distance.

Plus, distance also works in your favor. Periods of NC also work in your favor. She has to have that to miss you.

Just because she hasn't contacted you doesn't mean she's not thinking about you. So don't assume, cuz you know what that does right? It makes an a$$ out of u and me both!

[Mach1]

Why is it? Why is it that I know this but I do it anyway? Why is that we know what we have to do but refuse? I know the fire is hot, but I touch it.

You know the answer to that 2....

It is inside of you, keep digging.

[MichelleLT]

A timely post from Michele. http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/how-to-make-your-spouse-want-to-change/

[cat04]

2step, I really don't understand her sudden change either. For so very long she seemed to be moving in the right direction, but there has been a change.

My question to this would be…

Have you really changed your controlling thought patterns?

Have you really been paying attention to things in the books and what you hear here on the website?

They come closer and pull back. It is normal and natural to expect this sort of behavior. You should prepare for it…

One step towards you, in NOT reconciliation.

It is also not necessarily the “right” direction in their minds.

Hence, the pull back…

They have to think and consider and decide which way to go next…

It may be the desired outcome of the LBS, but it isn’t up to you or I or anyone but them, to decide if the way they are going it right or wrong…

This sort of thinking…is only going to hurt YOU in the end.

The car thing is a little annoying to me but I have no control over that.

This is exactly why she thought she shouldn’t tell you. Because you wouldn’t approve.

It isn’t up to you to approve or disapprove of her choices.

Maybe it is still a part of the old me but everytime she says "i'll call you again H" or "maybe i will call you tonight" it sounds like she is doing me a favor. Maybe its silly but it gets under my skin. I feel like saying "don't do me any freaking favors babe" I am sure that would get me a great reaction.

There is no maybe…

This is a part of the old you, who is apparently still hanging around.

A part that doesn’t like the way things are going and WANTS to react with anger and selfrighteousness.

But…is an excuse. To act in whatever way you want to act.

Instead of examining why you still feel that way.

Instead of finding the underlying reasons for it…

This is why we look within…

To find out WHY WE react in the ways that we do, to things that they do or don’t do.

This isn’t a game to win them back. It isn’t a chess match, to be one or two steps ahead, or a day in court as the defense attorney, to out argue the prosecutor and win over the jury. It is a way, to change your life for the better. To be the better option. If that leads to reconciliation, that is a wonderful thing.

[Starsky309]

2step

You have been here long enough so no 2X4's

You are still being too available.

You feel this

it sounds like she is doing me a favor. Maybe its silly but it gets under my skin.

Because it is so.

You are spending way too much time thinking and watching her.

Back off for a bit. Give her some room to miss you.

See how long she will go without talking to you. Let her make contact next.

And if she contacts don't be so eager to respond.

Don't tell her you were lying in bed missing the crap out of her.

It is pressure and it makes her feel guilty which is why she says she "might" call you later.

You know what to do BUT you're not doing it.

No more BUTS.

Do better.

Sorry maybe that was a thinly veiled 2x4.

You got this man. Just do it.

Here, TG said it far better than I could (or did -- my posts are still "fully moderated," so I don't think my reply to you has shown up yet).

Starsky

[2stepboogie]

It's worse to be 30 miles away and have more emotional distance. Take my word on that.

I agree Michelle. I see your point. To have my W down the street and still have no contact would be very demoralizing to me. To have so much contact on not be able to see her is almost like eating food that is bad for you. It taste good but you suffer after.

You have a lot of contact, and the physical distance is less than the emotional distance.

This part is the part I continue to miss. You keep me focused on this almost on a daily basis.

Originally Posted By: 2stepboogie

Why is it? Why is it that I know this but I do it anyway? Why is that we know what we have to do but refuse? I know the fire is hot, but I touch it.

You know the answer to that 2....

It is inside of you, keep digging.

Enter Mach with a shovel and a flashlight. I am digging my friend you know that I am. Soon i will reach China with my shovel and canteen. What will I find on the other side?

Have you really changed your controlling thought patterns?

Ahh Cat. Nice to see you again.

Yes. I have. Am I 100%. I don't know that i will ever be.

Have you really been paying attention to things in the books and what you hear here on the website?

The more I do the more I realize I know nothing.
I listen, I learn, I self evaluate constantly.

This is exactly why she thought she shouldn’t tell you. Because you wouldn’t approve.

It isn’t up to you to approve or disapprove of her choices.

Possibly true, allow me to explain my annoyance. IF we reconcile any financial decision she makes we will have to deal with together. I have been steady eliminating debt while she has not. I am not attempting to put the cart before the horse BUT I have to maintain a certain level of hope that I am working on getting back together with my W. Does this have to do with the changes I am making? No. As I have stated. She brought the necessary changes to my attention, but they are being made because of me. To change for her is false, to change for me is crucial.

Does not change the fact that my ultimate goal is to save my M.

There is no maybe…

This is a part of the old you, who is apparently still hanging around.

A part that doesn’t like the way things are going and WANTS to react with anger and selfrighteousness.

But…is an excuse. To act in whatever way you want to act.

Instead of examining why you still feel that way.

Instead of finding the underlying reasons for it…

This is why we look within…

To find out WHY WE react in the ways that we do, to things that they do or don’t do.

self-righteousness carries such a negative connotation Cat. I agree it is a part of my old self. If she decided to get a car that is great! Great for her. Part of is fear though. Fear that every new purchase ties her down to OK just a little bit more. Fear that every move solidifies her stay.

It is no secret I don't like this scenario one bit. I don't like it not because i feel belittled by it but because I fear it. I fear I am losing my M little by little.

Every day I grow a little. Everyday I learn a little more.

My down fall is not in the major mistakes but in all the little ones. It reminds me of something I read awhile back.

Nobody trips over mountains. It is the small pebble that causes you to stumble. Pass all the pebbles in your path and you will find you have crossed the mountain

This isn’t a game to win them back. It isn’t a chess match, to be one or two steps ahead, or a day in court as the defense attorney, to out argue the prosecutor and win over the jury. It is a way, to change your life for the better. To be the better option. If that leads to reconciliation, that is a wonderful thing.

Nothing I can say about that except WOW. WOW Cat. You are right.

I am truly a lucky man. To have so many of the vets come out with swing their 2x4's at me all in the same day.

I feel like Rodney King, only I am happy to get my head re-adjusted.

Gratitude for all the pearls of wisdom.

[MichelleLT]

This is exactly why she thought she shouldn't tell you. Because you wouldn't approve.

It isn't up to you to approve or disapprove of her choices.

Possibly true, allow me to explain my annoyance. IF we reconcile any financial decision she makes we will have to deal with together. I have been steady eliminating debt while she has not. I am not attempting to put the cart before the horse BUT I have to maintain a certain level of hope that I am working on getting back together with my W.

Actually, you are making a big assumption there. You don't actually have to deal with it together. You could keep separate accounts and that would be her financial issue to deal with.

My parents have been married over 35 years and have always had separate accounts. They have always divied up the bills between them and spent any extra money at their own discretion (not that there was much if any with three kids lol). There are other options and models out there. When you R, it will be up to you to carve your own path.

Trust her to figure it out for herself. Even if you think she is making a mistake, trust her to learn from it.

Legally, since she's considering taking on this debt while you are separated, you will not be responsible for it. So don't let it stress you out. Her decisions, her consequences. She's not a child to shield from the world.

She brought the necessary changes to my attention, but they are being made because of me. To change for her is false, to change for me is crucial.

Hear hear!!!!

[♪CS♪]

These have been some great posts here. Perfect for anyone who is on this crazy journey. One thing I think we all need is some reassurance from time to time. We need a slap in the face when we begin to slip. I know for me, I'll go a day, 2 or 3 feeling really strong. Then I feel myself starting to slip back. Posts like these pull me back up. I remember what I am doing and why I am doing it.

[angel61]

Don't worry, we all cycle.Both WAS and LBS cycle, we all have our own roller coasters. I used to think that our reactions to the WAS triggered the cycle, but as my sitch goes along, I notice that I have my own cycles, brought about by my own thought processes and learning.

The most important thing is to be careful during those down cycles because it is when we are most vulnerable and also when we do things that we regret later.

[cat04]

Enter Mach with a shovel and a flashlight. I am digging my friend you know that I am. Soon i will reach China with my shovel and canteen. What will I find on the other side?

That is to be seen...

No one knows for sure...

Ahh Cat. Nice to see you again.

Yea...I am sure you are really saying that to yourself

Does not change the fact that my ultimate goal is to save my M.

Nor should it change that goal.

Honestly, that should be a secondary goal right now.

You are not going to save the old marriage. That is already gone.

The goal, should be to become the best that you can, so that you have something to offer to a new M. Hopefully, with your W.

Part of is fear though. Fear that every new purchase ties her down to OK just a little bit more. Fear that every move solidifies her stay.

It is no secret I don't like this scenario one bit. I don't like it not because i feel belittled by it but because I fear it. I fear I am losing my M little by little.

This fear is holding you hostage.

I will repeat it, the old marriage is already GONE.

Be extremly honest with yourself, do you want it back the way that it was?

The way that you were?

The way that she was?

I doubt it. So mourn that M, learn what you need to, not just the things she told you she needed to see be different, but also anything else that you want to change about yourself, become the better option, and let her get to know you.

Listen, I reconciled my M once. The first time. And NEITHER of us did the work necessary to maintain it. To improve it. We fell back into old patterns.

I could not control his MLC, but I should have controlled my own behaviors and changes. I should have made them in earnest the first time around and continued them throughout the years in between crisis periods.

One of my mistakes, was thinking that all I needed to do, was reconcile the marriage. With little thought was to happen after the reconciliation happened.

I did things much different this time around. Although I have made choice that there will be no reconciliation, it hasn't stopped me from DBing, from digging, and from living. My current R, definately gets a different me than the me that was in my M. And I am much happier for it.

Don't make the same mistakes that I did.