Welcome back Sage!! It's good to know your Holidays went well. Sounds like you and the H are doing ok to. We're all glad you are back. You have such a great way of giving advice and we all appreciate it.
You took a leap of faith by opening up to your H and it sounds as though your breaking through a barrier that needs broken once and for all. Good for you! Rachael
What made him turn around? Well i think that it was because i stopped pursueing him and went dark. Any time he did contact me i acted like a friend and i also got a life!! He is also totally broke now and i think that this may have something to do with it. He has spent an incredible amount of money since he left. We have been seperated for 3 months and i have only seen him once, at a family furneral until 26th dec, when i went to see him at his parents for a week after he asked me to and also to check out his change of heart.
I'm not sure how to proceed, other than with caution!!
Any advice would be welcome. And sorry sage for hijacking your thread.
I am the master of creating positive energy and love in my own environment. I am the source of love in my life. It starts with me! This energy radiates from me! It gives me strength, courage, wisdom and grace!
Sage, Opt found this on Hud's thread... a quote from you. Any more thoughts on this issue? Did you call a DB counselor about it? Any insight would be appreciated.
Quote: So...I wanted to comment on this...during my h's a, I read a lot of books that depressed the heck out of me re. "Nothing can be fixed until the a is over and the S is recommitted to the m" but I honestly DO NOT remember DB/DR espousing this...in fact...I had a phone consult with one of the DB couselors early on because the website said something like "How to DB in the presence of an OP".
I have NO idea (obviously) if w is involved in any way, shape or form with someone else...but I'm living proof that one CAN DB effectively in the presence of an OP. Ellie (kml) is another person that falls into that category. IOW...please don't let that possible uncertainty keep you from DB'ing.
More later, friend... Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: Sage, Opt found this on Hud's thread... a quote from you. Any more thoughts on this issue? Did you call a DB counselor about it? Any insight would be appreciated.
Holding...I have to admit I'm behind in everyone's sitch...so I'm not sure if there's something specific behind your question or if it's more general ("OW is still in the picture...how do I handle that?")....
I have a post WAY BACK that recounts my phone consult...a lot of it was centered around my trying to deal with thoughts of OW, etc...I'll try to dig it up today...
In general, though, my post to Hud was to just articulate that DB'ing while an OP is around is DIFFICULT but not impossible. Focusing on what you can control...setting goals for YOU...etc...all the fundamentals still apply.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Guys...hope you don't mind the height of laziness...I'm going to post part of an email I sent in an effort to update you all:
Quote: I've had a whirlwind 2.5 weeks...the funeral, etc, for h's grandmother went well...it was nice to reconnect with his family (extended) a bit. He has lots of aunts and uncles and they are all so interesting!
XMAS went well...I feel as though I am ready to reconnect with MY family as well...after more than a year of being somewhat distant. My mom made a christmas brunch and she put SO MUCH effort into it. This is dramatic...the woman who has only wondered what others can do for her for SO LONG really put herself out there. I started crying and we hugged for a long time. Since then, we've emailed a few times and we have plans for lunch (with one of my sisters) on 1/31/04. I AM very hopeful.
I also had the chance to see my dad and his family. that went well, too, but since we went away right after xmas I haven't talked to them. I need to be more motivated and proactive about getting in touch with them...for a few days there I felt like the QUEEN! My dad and stepmom and brother all seemed SO excited to have me back in their lives....I am very lucky.
h and I spent 4 days in NYC after xmas. it was a lot of fun. We saw "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" on Broadway which was excellent. We walked miles and miles each day...had a few lowkey dinners (in the past I would have pressed for a fancy dinner which would have cost too much $ and been unrelaxing for h but I've really embraced the simpler approach!). I worried a bit that we were TOO lowkey...I wondered if he might wish we had done something funkier (even if he wasn't motivated to initiate it himself!) but in the end it was simply a relaxing time.
NYE we stayed in Boston and did "First Night". It was also a lot of fun and we enjoyed each other's company...we both ate too much and we ended up going to sleep at like 12:04!
Throughout the early part of the break I was feeling VERY sad and scared...mainly when we got back from NYC. I just had so much anxiety feeling that h and ow were in contact. I can't explain it well...it was just this total conviction that they were back in touch...that something was going on...I was feeling SO exposed...SO sad...SO bummed. Finally, I broke down in front of h and we had an R talk...first one in a long time.
I told him that I had had this sense that he was still in touch with ow. He said that wasn't true....handled it beautifully actually...we talked a bit about how it ended for him and ow...we also talked a bit about how scared and sad I get. He said something like "I wonder if you will ever not feel sad or scared about this". I said I would feel whole again someday and he said "I know you HOPE that. I hope that too but sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't just be better to split up...to endure the unbelievable pain up front so that things can get better." I asked him who he thought would benefit from that and he said "both of us".
That was hard and scary to hear. It wasn't "I want a D" by any stretch of the imagination...I think it was more "You are still in pain...one way to feel better eventually might be if we're not together".
I told him that I thought our love was special...that I would have left a long time ago if I didn't. He agreed on both counts.
I told him how hard it is for me to open up my heart to him...not just because of ow but because of how afraid I am of love. I asked him about some of the things that he had said during the bomb...in particular about how he wasn't cut out for m. He said that in some ways he still feels as though he'll end up alone...and that he might prefer that but that he knows that it could be just "the grass is greener" over there syndrome. He said that he feels as though he needs less affection than other people and that sometimes he feels too burdened being responsible for another's happiness. We talked about how I am responsible for my own happiness...not him...and that I thought that he was wonderfully affectionate and loving with me. We also talked a bit about M&V and how Gray says that some men feel as though there is something wrong with them or their R because they want alone time...
I also asked him about if he thought about WHY he had the a and how to prevent it in the future. He says he just doesn't know why it happened. And that he doesn't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. I told him that that worried me a great deal...
After the conversation he asked for a big hug. We had some food and watched TV and he said "I think that was a really good conversation". He also asked me if it was OK that we had just switched gears (to TV) so quickly. I said "absolutely".
The days following the talk have been pretty amazing. He's been incredibly loving and has been very physical with me (kissing me all the time, etc).
So...I cannot lie...some of the things that were said (split up now to offset future pain, antipates ultimately being alone, doesn't know why he had the affair, etc) scare the bejeepers out of me if I take them too literally. I cried in bed last night feeling as though I am in a m. with someone who doesn't want to be m. to me...BUT when I really look at it...I think I can see a GIANT positive here...one of my MAIN goals was enhancing intimacy in conversation with h...isn't that what happened? YES...some of the things said were TRULY scary...but he shared them with me....do you think that is a good thing?????
I think that my non-personalization of what he said was KEY to the aftermath...he really seemed so comfortable with me afterwards...like it was GREAT that he had shared himself and I hadn't recoiled in fear...I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into that, though. I have to KEEP myself thinking positively and not take his disclosures as a death sentence for US. this IS the way to greater intimacy, isn't it?
I really value your opinion!!!
So...now I'm back at work. I looked at the BB a bit this AM and I have to say that I'm not entirely sure how it fits into my life right now....I just feel SO demoralized and down when I read the sadness and pain there...and I start thinking "even though things look good NOW in my R are we doomed to this kind of pain...". Obviously...that kind of thinking is NOT HELPFUL. BUT, the flip side is that I WANT to give HELP to the BB...it helped me SO MUCH...I'm just not sure how to do that without losing my optimism for my R.
My overall goal right now is to figure out HOW to keep in a positive, gentle, open, loving state of mind without lapsing into pessimism and ASSumptions about my R and my h. Not just in reference to the BB but in general...HELP!
So that's my snapshot update! A bunch of wonderful times...a big scary but intimate R talk...more wonderful times ahead!
I have to admit that I debated taking out the paragraph about the BB...to expand on the thought, though, instead...I'm not sure how to fit the BB into perspective and my life right now...on the one hand, I've missed you all SO MUCH over the last few weeks...and I'm feeling totally overwhelmed but eager to catch up with all my old friends...on the other hand, though, as I was reading this morning I could feel SO MUCH sadness and pain over in Newcomers that I started feeling "doomed" myself...I'd read something on a thread and think "Maybe THAT'S what h REALLY meant" instead of the positive, optimistic, intimate picture I want to have. Finally (yes, the "third" hand)...I strongly feel the need to GIVE BACK to the board and to DB'ing in general...it was a lifeline and a lifesaver when I was in despair. I need to give that back.
So....I think I just need to figure out some boundaries/guidelines for myself....ways to keep myself from absorbing too much pain and applying it to my sitch while still being involved and giving back...
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
So....I think I just need to figure out some boundaries/guidelines for myself....ways to keep myself from absorbing too much pain and applying it to my sitch while still being involved and giving back...
Shiny mentioned a new thread for those of us who have Divorce Busted our marriage, and have reconciled with our spouses, but still going through growing pains.
I'd love to see a thread like this open on the BB. I think it'd help Newcomers cause they could easily stop in on our threads and see all the people who have made it...and the challenges we face.
Give them hope and also, realistic idea of what happens after.
I think that the R talk that you and H had was a good thing. Scary yes, but from what you describe of his actions afterward it sounds like it was something HE needed to do too. Awesome that you were able to de-personalize it too and digest it without it becoming overwhelming
About the BB... I ran into the same things you have described virtually EVERYTIME I tried going into Newcomers to read posts there I finally had to stop reading on that forum altogether just to keep from second-guessing myself constantly. A few of the steps I tumbled backwards were due in part to getting too caught up in those posts. I have limited myself to staying in Piecing and only replying to a certain # of threads. I read more then I reply to but I find that I don't get caught up so easily as long as I just stick to reading...I guess because I don't have to think as hard as I do when I reply
Yes, it makes me a little sad that I can't get as involved as I would like to...I owe a great deal to this forum...butit was the only compromise I could come up with that worked, otherwise I might have left the BB altogether It might be a solution you could try as well?
Hugz, Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
i guess it's a natural sequence of events to eventually grow out of the need of the bb
and please this is no attempt at guilt here - but there is priceless comfort in knowing that even tho certain divorces may be "busted" that there is still struggling, not just with the r but with inner turmoil
just coming here to chronical your feelings shows that there is still work ahead for all of us, that it never is EASY to be in a marriage - and that it is quite normal to still have insecurities
but one thing sage, realize your limits. you cannot help EVERYONE with your sage advice, and i for one would be perfectly ok if you never posted on my thread again, but posted to yours so that i can watch your growth if this meant you stayed around
We're all glad you are back. You have such a great way of giving advice and we all appreciate it. 
I finally had to stop reading on that forum altogether just to keep from second-guessing myself constantly. A few of the steps I tumbled backwards were due in part to getting too caught up in those posts. 
