IMO, as his Mother's death nears you will see a variety of emotions in XH. This happened here 6.5 years ago when we found out my H's Mother had 3 months to live.
Frankly it took a huge toll on us all and was a huge factor in the demise of our marriage so when I say he will experience many emotions I am very serious. I wish I had been more supportive, you can learn from me in this way. It's a case of "If I only knew then what I know now"...well things would be very different.
You have an advantage with XH already, he stated to you that you have always supported and stood by him. Give him the GAG he needs and fill the void he apparently has.
It is wonderful that he accepted your invite to dinner after TT tonight!!!!!!
I wish you a splendid evening with Mr. GAG, will be looking for the update.
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Mr. GAG and I played TT last evening. …….If you want to find out what made XH take his pants off, you’ll have to read at least the first few paragraphs.
XH seemed very calm and receptive with me all evening. I was surprised. His e-mails had sounded so short and curt I thought he was in an irritable mood. I have noticed that since I pulled back on the many friendly e-mails and texts we exchanged (April to November of last year) and changed gears from working toward friendship to flirting in our personal interactions (I changed my approach beginning in December last year), that overall Mr. GAG has been warmer and less standoffish when we are together but his communications have been much less frequent and shorter. Don’t know whether this was prompted by the change?????????
After spending 3 ½ hours with Mr. GAG I think he is currently struggling with depression about his mother’s physical and mental decline. Last night I sensed an openess from him that I don’t remember sensing before. It was even different than when we were a couple. It wasn’t romantic, but XH wasn’t defensive at all. That’s a BIG change from last 5 months ago.
This week I was friendly but more reserved. I didn’t run up to hug XH when he arrived at TT and when we hugged goodnight, I didn’t kiss XH on the cheek like I have for the past several weeks. I thought that XH looked kind of surprised when I DIDN’T kiss him on the cheek. Go figure………
No flirting during the game. I was pretty serious and on task, trying to improve my topspin and underspin volleys. XH was very patient with me even though I kept hitting the balls long. Toward the end of the evening we had some very good volleys. During those volleys I felt like we were working as a team. It felt challenging and interesting. I guess this was a glimpse of what our TT could be like in the future……
We played right up to closing time. The community center was empty except for Mr. GAG, me, and one male staff person. The changing rooms were already locked, so Mr. GAG decided to change from his TT shorts into his blue jeans in the TT room in front of me. He said “I guess I can change in here” (funny……..there are big windows on two sides of the room) and seemed more nervous about the young man who works at the community center walking in while he was changing than he was about changing in front of me. I got to see XH’s tighty-whities and manly bare legs again. Caught just a glimpse of bare chest and belly too………. and I have to say that I found it a bit titillating (he's in good shape for a guy in his late 50s). That surprised the heck out of me since I have been feeling “spent” and irritated with what an emotional idiot XH has been for the past 3 years.
We went to the Cuban restaurant. XH immediately started chatting away. He told me that his return flight from the national conference was delayed 3 hours and he didn’t get home until 3 AM Sunday morning. XH showed me lots of photos of his business partner and employees and caught me up on what’s going on with his business and the lives of these people. He showed me some photos of a former business partner (FBP) and said that FBP and his W of 20 years have been having marital difficulties. FBP’s W is unhappy because her children are growing and she gave up her career to support FBP’s career and take care of their family. They are in therapy. I said to XH “R’s go through cycles just like everything in life. People say that when they work through these kinds of problems their M’s are much stronger and better than before”. XH said “Hmmm” in a receptive kind of way. This response was notable because I sensed no defensiveness at all from him on this topic. He did not disagree in word or attitude. He seemed very receptive. This is a HUGE change in XH’s attitude when compared to the months following the bomb and before the D (D was 12/2009). ……….In fact, last July, when XH told me that one of his other friends had recently D’ed his W and when he has referred to his sister’s M difficuties over the past year, he spoke of these things in a defiant tone of voice, as if to justify his actions. Not so last evening. His tone was softer and receptive.
XH raised the topic of the TV star who has been having a meltdown on US TV this week (CS) and we talked a bit about how addiction changes people. XH thinks CS is not in full command of his faculties.
Last summer I borrowed XH’s stepladder to paint my kitchen and hadn’t returned it (my bad…….I was trying to find time to paint the back hallway). Earlier in the day XH had texted me to ask if I had the ladder. He’d been looking for it. I told him I would bring it for him yesterday evening. At the restaurant I told XH that I felt badly that I’d kept his ladder for so long and apologized for not returning it earlier. He said “That’s OK”. He wasn’t irritated at all. I said that to thank him for letting me borrow the ladder for so long I would like to treat him to the King Tut exhibit. He said “When does it come to town” and “You don’t have to do that”. I told him how badly I felt for keeping the ladder so long and thought the exhibit might be really interesting. We ended up changing the topic after that, but I at least planted the idea. I will follow up on that in the future. This is the same approach I used to get XH to play TT with me the first time. I couched my invitation as a “barter” of goods/services……and look at us now.
I pulled a book of “adult” Mad Libs out of my purse and told XH we were doing them earlier at work because one of the gals at work is getting M’ed in 2 weeks. Then I showed XH a sexy Mad Lib in the book that he and I did together 3 months before our D one evening when I served him dinner on my patio. I said “Do you remember that?” and he responded “Yes, I do”………so THAT was INTERESTING. XH DID remember that evening. We really had a nice time that evening. We giggled and laughed ourselves silly that evening and I flirted relentlessly (let's just say the nouns, verbs, and adjectives used in those Mad Libs would probably be edited by J3B ) ………..I am finding over the past few months that XH HAS actually remembered and noticed a LOT more detail than I ever thought he did, just like DB 101 says! Go figure.
After we finished eating, XH just kept chatting away. It was obvious he didn’t want to leave. He told me that while he was driving to the community center this evening he had been crying because he was thinking about his mother’s declining health. She's lost ~20 pounds in the last 1-2 months and has no appetite now. He had been spoon-feeding her dinner before TT. His eyes started watering a bit while he talked and he said that this experience with his mother is bringing back memories of his twin sister’s death 30 years ago. I let him talk and he continued for about 10 minutes. I put my hand gently on his and validated his feelings. He didn’t pull his hand away, but he didn’t take my hand either. ……This exchange was VERY significant because I have only seen H/XH cry two other times in the last 7 ½ years that I’ve known him. The first was when he gave me the news that my mother had passed away, and the second was as he was leaving “our” house one afternoon after we worked on the terms of our D settlement. That day I had lost my composure and screamed at him “You didn’t even try! You didn’t even try (to work on our M)!”……………So XH allowing himself to cry in front of me was an intimate moment……………A few minutes later XH looked at his watch (it was almost 10pm), looked surprised at what time it was, and said “I’ve got to go”.
I drove behind XH’s car to his house to drop off the step ladder. We stood inside his garage and chatted a bit (it was cold). He told me that he doesn’t really want his sister to come visit him (she comes from another state) because it just makes more work for him. He thinks she just comes to take a mini-vacation and said that X-SIL visits so that she can have lunches and dinners with their family friends, including XH’s first W (that was news to me -------- didn’t know X-SIL was visiting the 1st XW (last I heard she was M’ed) so frequently). XH said that he had told his sister what time he was expecting her to return from our lunch (referring to XH's tantrum 1 1/2 weeks ago) and that was why he was so irritated with her (so you were right Mila! Sibling rivalry at work.). XH said that his sister said she’d forgotten what time she was supposed to be back at his house. I’m guessing she “accidentally on purpose” forgot because she wasn’t looking forward to going to their mother’s place and maybe because I was sharing info about what happened between her brother and me that I had never shared before. I told XH very gently, “This is the second time something like this has happened. Why don’t you just tell me what time I should have her back next time? I’ll get her there on time.”……….It was interesting that XH felt the need to bring up his tantrum. Maybe he felt the need to offer an explanation for his bad behavior?
It was cold, so we hugged and said good night. I'm thinking that I should visit X-MIL sometime this weekend to try to get her to eat something.
Thanks for hanging in if you've made it this far. As always, I appreciate being able to journal these things. It helps me put the pieces together.
Hi GAG, Like MHL I've been reading along but I have an enormous workload atm and my posts have been minimal.
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
XH seemed very calm and receptive with me all evening. I was surprised. His e-mails had sounded so short and curt I thought he was in an irritable mood.
Here's another example of why we shouldn't be too analytical about their actions; we don't really know what's going on and sometimes we can autpmatically assume they have an issue with us and that's just not right.
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
since I pulled back on the many friendly e-mails and texts we exchanged and changed gears from working toward friendship to flirting Mr. GAG has been warmer and less standoffish when we are together but his communications have been much less frequent and shorter.
Perhaps originally Mr GAG was responding warmly because in his mind it was a way to keep the door open just in case. Now, perhaps, with the regular TT and other meetings along the way Mr GAG has placed you in the initiator role which has enabled him to relax a little more, knowing that the opened door is not reliant on his written communication but can be supported by personal interactions.
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
Last night I sensed an openess from him that I don’t remember sensing before. It was even different than when we were a couple. It wasn’t romantic, but XH wasn’t defensive at all. That’s a BIG change from last 5 months ago.
It was very cool that during the game you let XH play. He played as to release all his anxieties. He played hard which was a wonderful outlet for him emotionally.
You are giving XH a place to be open and honest and the friendship that has been recreated is comfortable enough that he can show his true self and feelings. XH needs this right now, he has a lot of emotions to process and it feels really good when someone who cares listens (really listens) to him. This is meaningful to him whether he wants to talk about his mother or ball bearings.
For your XH to change his clothes IN FRONT OF YOU is absolutely a gigantic event. This proves he is relaxed and comfortable with you.
I can remember when my H left at first there were a couple of instances where he had to change in front of me at the office and he very modestly turned his back to me. I can remember the first time, it made a huge statement to me....it was crushing. After time has passed he has grown more comfortable and now will change facing me while I sit and watch.
The fact that XH is sharing the details about his day to day is another BIG sign that he is warming to you. He trusts that you are concerned and caring enough to want to listen and sharing is an opening of himself. AS IN MY WORLD HERE, if you remember back a while ago, he guarded every event in his world no matter how big or small. When the wall was high and solid between you, he barely recognized your existence let alone shared anything with you regarding himself. Look where your XH is today...things are reconciling between you.
((((GAG)))) you have so many good signs. Keep a steady approach with XH. You can do this as I think he is receptive and sees that a genuine, warm, valuable relationship with you is emerging.
The time may be right for you both. It will require a slow and consistent behavior on your part.
Next time you see Mr. GAG....KISS HIM.
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Hello GAG, thanks for asking after me on Cas thread.
I am hanging in there. Not feeling really pumped and positive right at the moment myself. It appears H has once again gone "cool" on me. He didn't contact me all week. I saw him yesterday in town, I asked how his week has gone, he made a comment to me "I got lots of problems". I didn't dig for what. I have heard through the grapevine that OW has gone psycho on him and they are not spending very much time together. I guess she is PO'd at him for not taking a vacation with her. I can't really be too bothered to think about this. I am thinking that H is having trouble with OW and reluctantly is still going along with her escapades. It isn't the H I know for sure. I WILL BE MAJOR PO'D TO HEAR HE TAKES ONE WITH HER!!!
In Maine we get the majority of the storms that sweep across the country. They all seem to flow towards the northeast. We currently are buried in snow. Our average depth is about 28" and our snowbanks are about 55" right now. It will be awhile before I see my perennial gardens. My only sighting of spring has been robins...I think they came back too soon this year for sure. Yesterday it was very cold here at about -2 degrees, today it's 39 degrees. In Maine there is an old saying...."If you don't like the weather just wait a minute".
I really have cabin fever this year. I think some warm sun and green grass will be just the remedy for everyone.
Thank you GAG, I hope your weekend and work week go fine for you. I will stay in touch
(((((hugs))))),
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Thank you Mila, CW, Seeking, Missher, Sanderika, and Cas for your feedback on my thread.
Wednesday evening at dinner XH told me his mother had lost 23 pounds since her hospitalization 6 weeks ago and she is not eating these days, so I decided to go to X-MIL's on the way home from work yesterday to see if I could coax her to eat something. She hardly ate anything even though I brought some of her favorites and tried to spoon feed her for 1 1/2 hours. She has a weak, wet-sounding cough (a congestive heart failure cough). I recognize the signs and I am expecting X-MIL to pass in the next 2-3 weeks if nothing significant changes. I am going shopping for a new black dress this weekend. I don't think XH would agree to a feeding tube because she has so many other health problems. This decision-making process will remind him of when his family had to make the terrible decision to discontinue his twin sister's life support.
Originally Posted By: Sanderika
IMO, as his Mother's death nears you will see a variety of emotions in XH. .......it took a huge toll on us all and was a huge factor in the demise of our marriage so when I say he will experience many emotions I am very serious. I wish I had been more supportive, you can learn from me in this way. It's a case of "If I only knew then what I know now"...well things would be very different.
I understand what you're saying Sanderika. My previous 8 year R took a big nosedive after our dog died. Losing a mother with this much baggage is much more significant. I would really value your feedback on how to interact in this situation. I have begun initiating contact with XH about his mother, offering my services, not telling him what to do. I've stepped things up a bit because I'm pretty sure the end is near and this is what I would do for a good friend, so this constitutes a change from my waiting for XH to initiate over the past couple months. I don't think XH knows how close his mother is to death. He seems appreciative and yesterday replied to ask me to pick up her favorite frozen yogurt. Also told me he was spending friday evening with a male childhood friend (interesting he added that).
Now, my responses to your earlier posts:
Mila and Cas, yes! We can't know why our WAS's are moody when they're bumping around inside their tunnels. These days XH seems to be projecting his anger at others, especially his sister.
Seeking, yes I think my XH is still depressed and has been since before I met him. His depression is flaring now because of his mother's declining health, but I think he's had chronic depression because he's always used serial dating (before and after me) and a busy, busy social schedule as a way to elevate his mood.
Originally Posted By: missherlove
You really are becoming a stable fixture in his life, someone he can count on, someone that supports him,........... someone that he is safe with,......someone that does not pressure him,............someone that still loves him.
Missher, thanks for checking in and for your encouragement. I think that XH is beginning to notice these things.
CW, you made me laugh!!!!!!! Get your mind out of the gutter girl. Seriously, having XH change clothes in front of me and seeing how it affected me to see those body parts was an important lesson for me. I had been feeling no genuine physical attraction to XH since last summer, but it was amazing how that little "strip show" keeps replaying in my mind. It tells me that we never know when a show of skin, or a certain look or movement might catch our WAS's eyes and could reignite a spark inside THEM.
Originally Posted By: Sanderika
For your XH to change his clothes IN FRONT OF YOU is absolutely a gigantic event. This proves he is relaxed and comfortable with you.
Sanderika, I agree with you on this. It shows me that XH feels less need to be "faithful" to GF#2, which is another clue that she may not be around anymore. I looked at her FB page about 5 weeks ago (around the time of X-MIL's birthday) and it was totally different. Before there were lots of photos of her (I think some were from their vacay together) and one of her and XH. These were all gone. Nothing was there.........since XH seems not to be "chaste" for GF#2 any more, it very well could be time to try a kiss again. I presume that you meant a kiss on the cheek, right? I don't think it's time for a lip kiss given X-MIL's poor health.
Originally Posted By: dolphin_05
Perhaps originally Mr GAG was responding warmly because in his mind it was a way to keep the door open just in case. Now, perhaps, with the regular TT and other meetings along the way Mr GAG has placed you in the initiator role which has enabled him to relax a little more, knowing that the opened door is not reliant on his written communication but can be supported by personal interactions.
Cas, that's very insightful and a good possibility.
I have given your request a lot of thought. This is very hard for me to put into words, my emotions are so raw. I was such a rotten person back then.
A little background first.....
In the situation with my H 6.5 years ago when he lost his mother to cancer we were still together and things between us were not that great due to my bout with depression which at that point in time was already about a year old and even though he tried to help me in his own way I refused and grew very defensive with him.
The key here is we were still together and he still was "here". During the loss of his Mother he became very depressed himself. I was so self absorbed that I did not recognize this. I was also involved with an Aunt I loved like a mother who was dying at the same time of cancer. I lost her 7 months after MIL. My world existed in a very small place. I was a zombie when awake and then I was asleep, I slept a lot.
Had I been willing to see what I was involved with I would have put my selfishness aside and nurtured him through this event that to this day he has trouble dealing with.
Another thing to note, two weeks before her death my H was burned in a propane explosion and was unable to see her until three days before she died. This added to his emotions. By the time he was able to see her she was not able to really communicate because she was in another place inside her head. Then within 24 hours she was just there....hanging on until the end, the slow death of a loved one is not a very good sight to watch.
I am crying as I write this.....
I would have hugged him like there was no tomorrow, I would have loved him like he deserved. I have such regrets. In the place I was in I was unable to love. I didn't like anyone in my world including myself.
My H was a fragile soul and I just watched. I should have taken the time to talk with him about the good times and the sad ones. I should have held his hand. I should have held him as he fell asleep. I would have made sure he knew I was there for him in mind and body. He would have had the love he needed to get through it.
I did try my best to see MIL frequently, at the request of my FIL I baked for MIL. He would call me almost every day and ask me to make her something she talked about. She was always saying how much she loved..... "molasses cookies" for example, so he would call me and ask me to make them. He was always trying to give her one more simple pleasure before she died. I made all her favorites and even though she would only take one or two bites she would always close her eyes and just savor the flavor.
I wrote her obituary for the family. It was something they could not bring themselves to do. I wrote it with love and admiration for a woman I loved deeply and still mourn. They were very pleased with my words.
After her death and the formalities were over with, I still did not touch H. I still kept on my own path sort of speak. He needed me so much and I was not there.
He left me 9 months after her death stating to me that he was too depressed to stay any longer and that he felt unloved by me. He had already found the OW, the same one he is with today.
I don't really know if I have helped you or not, GAG. This is all different in your situation as you are not still married to H and do not have the opportunity every moment of every day to make a difference to him as he goes through this very difficult time.
I am still crying.....I will close for now. Should you come up with any specific requests for my opinion, I will help you as best I can.
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
THANK YOU for your very generous gift of posting your thoughts about how the approaching death of a parent affects our WAS's. I know that was very difficult for you to relive. If I could reach out through the ether and give you a hug I would........but for now I am sending you a big virtual hug. ((((((((((Sanderika))))))))
We all do things that in retrospect we wish we could do differently. We are human. We need to forgive ourselves along with our WAS's.
I'm at work right now but will write more when I have time.
