LBS needing advice...

[irishblessings]

I would like to ask for some guidance on working through what I believe is a wall I keep hitting through this journey.

I know everyone’s journey is different – however I am just trying to figure out my next step.

I am finally getting to the point where I have initiated “business” conversations with H. His responses have been cold and stand-offish

My journey truly began I’ll say – 5 years ago. 7 years ago my H turned 40 and he experienced many life and career changes. I didn’t see some of those issues between age 40 and 42 as anything different than what you read about “normal” couples go through. Second-guessing decisions / disagreements – but nothing earth-shattering.

5 years ago more alarming revelations. Engaging in the phone chat lines. Went into counseling – committed to make things better. Things seemed to go better – day to day of raising 3 active teenagers. Many laughs – great moments. 3 years ago found H had a second phone. Admitted to “coming close” to hooking up. Went into INTENSIVE counseling – IC and MC. At this time I felt like my world was devastated (little did I know!). Something happened to me at this point. I completely turned all of my efforts to becoming a better wife – whatever it took. I read everything – studied – questioned every move I made. I prayed – was hypersensitive to any decision that was made / tried to make sure he felt that I was respecting his opinion etc. My kids, family, friends - everyone saw changes. We took a step back and slowed down our life. Concentrated on togetherness. I felt proud of this.

Then last February I found out the unbelievable. He had been lying over the past 3 years and had moved further into deception and had been involved with countless physical affairs with any and all possible partners. Crossed all boundaries – and all the while playing the role of the devoted husband, father and employee.

Still I didn’t leave. And as all on this site know he recommitted – only to announce that he was “done”.

So this history lesson brings me to my question. As an LBS I know that we are all accountable to admit and atone for our own contributions to the demise of the marriage. I am struggling to determine if my own atonement came 3 years ago or is there more I need to be looking for in terms of my contribution? If someone were to ask me today what I felt my contributions were to the demise of my marriage – I would go back to the come to Jesus I faced 3 years ago. Now I find myself here. What are the lessons I still need to learn? Are there more lessons I need to learn about my contributions – or is there some point where I can say I did what I could do? This wasn’t my fault – my failings were not worthy of this deception and exposure to this sick, seedy world of sexual deviancy. Please know when I use the words “sexual deviancy” – I do so not from the seat of a prude. I use these words from a place of research and intense counseling in which I have been assured over and over again what I experienced is not the “norm”.

Do you my friends think I need to keep looking for my failings in this or can I release myself from this torture? I don’t want to be in denial – I want to move forward with a clear conscience.

Thanks for listening…I really needed to get this off my chest.

[Augtan]

Irish,

I think just the fact that you are still looking inside yourself answers your questions..you have done some hard work and will continue to do it. I don't know if we are ever done working on ourselves, but you should forgive yourself for what you did and your part in the breakdown of your marriage!! You can only control and change you and you have worked to do that and will continue to. Give yourself a break and let it all go..there is nothing you can do to change what went on, but you have been and will continue to learn from it.

Release yourself, quit beating yourself up...you did all you could do..it is on him for not doing the same, but you need to forgive him for not being able to do it. I have gotton to the point where "fault" is not even worth considering anymore...this is what happened and it is over and done, time to move forward either together or apart, still standing or not, the past is gone and that is the bottom line. You were mature, responsible, and loving enough to look within yourself and change what you could..that is more than he did or was willing to do!

Hang in there, we all struggle with this stuff. I know I do and will for a long time. My XH is coming up here in a few days, he is still totally messed up, but is a lot better than he was with the OW and I told him so tonight, I think he gets it, but not sure. It is hard everyday to love someone and see things logically while they still live in "la-la land".

A

[irishblessings]

Thanks A. I wonder in looking at your signature - through your time going thru this - did you always have a relationship with XH?

[Twink]

IB, I have gone through much of the same soul searching as you, having been around this block with H once before many years ago. I am coming to the conclusion that I did all I could then, at least as I understood it at the time. I now see the things I could have done better in later years, and how the earlier incidents influenced that. I am in the process of forgiving myself for not seeing more and doing better.

At the end of the day, though, regardless of what we did or didn't do, our Hs have made decisions by and for themselves, with little regard for us or their families. I CHOOSE to believe that this is because my H is in a crisis, because believing that helps me to be compassionate and forgiving, and not take things personally. It helps me to interact with him without anger or resentment. That is good for me and good for my children.

You've done the work you needed to do at the time. When more is needed, you'll know it, and you'll do it. You're doing so well, IB! Keep going...

[Augtan]

Yes, I have always had a relationship with XH...but there have been many, many, many ups and downs!! When OW was in the picture and revealed as being in it..we went for a long time with him denying it and hiding it..in the state we were divorced in is a "fault" state..we had horrible and awful things go on between us.

About 3 months before OW left the scene, we were together physically, but he was mad at me for that happening and it was a awful few months after that (I told OW)...then the OW realized that it was her or the kids and he was going to chose the kids and they broke up.

Things after that have been very up and down, back and forth too.. there was OW#2 and although we weren't still married when she came in the picture, we had been sleeping together and getting closer. She was worse than the 1st one in many ways, but is gone now too. We live 700 miles apart, so it is a very weird situation. When we are together it is awesome, but then he goes back down there and is back in the "tunnel" for a few weeks.

It is very long story and I don't want to bore you. I have no clue where we are headed, I tried to talk to him a little bit tonight, not any R talk, just support for all the decisions that need to be made the next few weeks. But, I feed things to him in very small doses now...nothing major all at once, then I give him time and space to digest. He has been out of a job for a few months and has gotton several job offers, one in another city. I told him I am here for him and will listen, that I just want him to know he can open up to me and trust me..he will do more of that when he is here in my bed with me and we are snuggled up together, on the phone it is hard..he knows my heart...he knows how much I love him...he has to want it too and that is what I am waiting for, but not holding my breath...I told him tonight that me and the kids are perfectly fine here and will be, but all he has to do is tell me what he wants and we can try together to make that happen. He comes close, then pulls away or I do something to push him away, but I am getting better at that fine line too.

You have done all you can, and so have I, forgive yourself...what Twink said is exactly right too. Look within and know you are who you are and be proud of it. You gave your whole self to someone and they stomped on your heart, it will take time to heal and I don't know if the wound is ever completely closed, but there can be a very good, thick scap on it!

A

[irishblessings]

Thank you Twink.

I need to take that very step - I need to CHOOSE to believe that my H is in crisis and possibly even mentally ill. I feel as though for the longest time I have been trying to be compassionate and forgiving. I would say that the strongest need I have had over the last few months was to detach which for me meant no contact. This did not endear me to him but I believe to this day that the closer I stood to the illness or the poison the less able I would have been to survive.

Today I feel maybe I am getting strong enough to have a conversation with him. Problem is I am also beginning to let myself feel more anger. I want to avoid this "perfect storm" - so I am not quite sure where I will go from here.

Thanks for your words of wisdom - I will take heed!

[AntoniaB]

What I'm hearing from your post above is that you're recognizing that you're still blaming yourself and you're wondering if it's ok to stop doing so. It's almost like you're rationalizing the self-blame as a way to say "I need to find out what I did to be a better person in the future/own my contribution, therefore it's ok for me to keep beating myself up, in fact, it's necessary." I do the same thing.

If you had never put much stock into your own contributions in the past, I'd say yeah, keep digging at this stuff. But you have. And you still are. If you need to keep digging at anything, it's that you need to dig at why you feel the need to find an "out" for him, an excuse for him. Again, I am doing the same thing. IMHO, the reason we try to find an excuse for their behavior is so we can avoid getting angry at them.

A friend of mine said to me she thought the reason I was hitting this same wall as you was because she said "I think you're afraid to really process what he did to you and your marriage, I mean REALLY acknowledge it, because you're afraid that if you do, you'll realize that you should NOT be with him, even if he came back begging once the affair ends, and your'e afraid that at that point, your window to be with him will have shut and you'll have shut it yourself." I think she is SO right.

Now why would this all scare me? Because I'm afraid that if I can't have him, I can't have anyone. I either "fix" him or I "fix" the broken marriage or I'm "doomed" to being single forever.

What does this come back to? Lack of confidence in myself, lack of self-esteem, the feeling that I must have him even if he's destroying me to be "happy." This is a load of crap!

So for me, this is why I hit that wall you're hitting. And some days I cycle back and hit it AGAIN.

I think you want to feel anger but that anger makes you scared that you'll REALLY detach from him, and so you cycle back to "what did I do wrong" to avoid hitting anger. You don't want to STAY angry, of course, but you need to go through it. It is essential.

Simplify it: when you start to think "what did I do wrong" and "do I still need to go back to what I might have contributed to the problems 3 years ago, or one year ago", say to yourself "this is madness. It's the past. It does no good to rehash it anymore. STOP."

If you want to be introspective and try to keep working on yourself, instead, ask yourself why in the PRESENT you are feeling what you're feeling. Ask yourself if you're angry, and why you won't let yourself feel that. Or whatever else you're feeling.

You know, I want very much to believe that my XH is in MLC and therefore not fully aware of his decisions, but I also need to stop giving him a "pass." You know, this isn't something like schizophrenia or a severe brain disorder. It's a type of depression in many ways. But you know I've gone through depression, and I don't hurt others when I am there. I don't betray people's trust when I'm there. I don't lie or cheat. I don't destroy a marriage. These people have choices, and they've chosen badly, and it's almost like they have done it out of defiance. We have to stop saying this is ok. We are better than that. And that's why we have to stop blaming ourselves.

[Queen_of_Swords]

What I'm hearing from your post above is that you're recognizing that you're still blaming yourself and you're wondering if it's ok to stop doing so. It's almost like you're rationalizing the self-blame as a way to say "I need to find out what I did to be a better person in the future/own my contribution, therefore it's ok for me to keep beating myself up, in fact, it's necessary." I do the same thing.

If you had never put much stock into your own contributions in the past, I'd say yeah, keep digging at this stuff. But you have. And you still are. If you need to keep digging at anything, it's that you need to dig at why you feel the need to find an "out" for him, an excuse for him. Again, I am doing the same thing. IMHO, the reason we try to find an excuse for their behavior is so we can avoid getting angry at them.

A friend of mine said to me she thought the reason I was hitting this same wall as you was because she said "I think you're afraid to really process what he did to you and your marriage, I mean REALLY acknowledge it, because you're afraid that if you do, you'll realize that you should NOT be with him, even if he came back begging once the affair ends, and your'e afraid that at that point, your window to be with him will have shut and you'll have shut it yourself." I think she is SO right.

Now why would this all scare me? Because I'm afraid that if I can't have him, I can't have anyone. I either "fix" him or I "fix" the broken marriage or I'm "doomed" to being single forever.

What does this come back to? Lack of confidence in myself, lack of self-esteem, the feeling that I must have him even if he's destroying me to be "happy." This is a load of crap!

So for me, this is why I hit that wall you're hitting. And some days I cycle back and hit it AGAIN.

I think you want to feel anger but that anger makes you scared that you'll REALLY detach from him, and so you cycle back to "what did I do wrong" to avoid hitting anger. You don't want to STAY angry, of course, but you need to go through it. It is essential.

Simplify it: when you start to think "what did I do wrong" and "do I still need to go back to what I might have contributed to the problems 3 years ago, or one year ago", say to yourself "this is madness. It's the past. It does no good to rehash it anymore. STOP."

If you want to be introspective and try to keep working on yourself, instead, ask yourself why in the PRESENT you are feeling what you're feeling. Ask yourself if you're angry, and why you won't let yourself feel that. Or whatever else you're feeling.

You know, I want very much to believe that my XH is in MLC and therefore not fully aware of his decisions, but I also need to stop giving him a "pass." You know, this isn't something like schizophrenia or a severe brain disorder. It's a type of depression in many ways. But you know I've gone through depression, and I don't hurt others when I am there. I don't betray people's trust when I'm there. I don't lie or cheat. I don't destroy a marriage. These people have choices, and they've chosen badly, and it's almost like they have done it out of defiance. We have to stop saying this is ok. We are better than that. And that's why we have to stop blaming ourselves.

I colored what really stood out for me Antonia. Thank you for this bit of clarity that applies to me and my situation.

[AntoniaB]

I'm glad to help, SC!! But I always need to read my own advice too, over and over and over ;-)

[irishblessings]

Reality check....

S comes home from school today. Classmate comes up to his locker and tells him that his dad was at the grille where he worked on Sunday with his gf. Said the gf almost got kicked out for being loud and obnoxious. Said her clothes were "painted on" and she smoked a ton.

S was humiliated - but handled it well. When he told me - I just said "honey, it is just another example of Dad looking elsewhere for things to make him happy. Let's just pray that at some point he finds healthy ways to be happy."

Wow...craziness!