Not full yet...

[dl443322]

True, really?? She's going to South America to think about things?

Well, she's gonna find it aint far enough to run because she is going along, too. LOL!

They still, even after all this time, never cease to amaze me.

You are doing great, my friend and I am glad.

[Denver_2010]

Well W broke the silence.

Almost 2 months since I drew the line. No contact.

The excuse?

Some mail she got for me that was important...not so important.

Anyway...

Yada Yada yada.

Stuff she has of mine. I said sell it and live off the $

W: How is dog?

TG: Fine.

W: Tell him Mommy says Hi

TG: Ok

W: Ok well I have to go to work sorry for the short convo. Call if you want to talk.

TG: W I already told you I won't be calling you. Did you undertand the last email I sent?

W: Yes

TG: Anything unlclear about where I stand? Ball is in your court. Do yo understand?

W: Yes. I am going on a sabbatical.

TG: A what?

W: I am going to South America for a few days to think about things. Out of the country.

TG: Well be careful down there.

TG over and out....

Gritter... it seems that you are detached from your sitch. I recognize that this is good. I'm wondering if you still feel that it is a 'loving' detachment?

It is hard to discern tone of voice from posts here... you seemed very 'matter of fact' with your W in the convo.

I'm curious if you have thought about this... and what it means to you.

BITS
Denver

[Truegritter]

you seemed very 'matter of fact' with your W in the convo.

Yes it is hard to convey tone of voice in a post.

It actually was a pleasant convo.

Not "matter of fact" The facts I put here. That's why it seems that way I think.

I am in a place that I know she has to do this on her own.

She knows where I stand.

Until she decides she wants our M there is really nothing more to be said.

Nor to be done unless I want my old M back.

It is allowing someone to complete their own journey and self discovery.

We can't speed that up.

We can slow it down by our own actions and words.

I am at a place where I know the difference I think.

Not perfect by any means.

I still let the emotion of my passion and concern for her get me.

It just doesn't rule my life and it won't because I control it.

[Truegritter]

Talked to W today.

She just got back from S. America. She went with her girlfriend.

I told her that I was ready to move out of limbo.

W: I don't blame you I am too.

M: What does that mean to you?

W: I just am ready to move on with my life. I have to move out of the house by the end of April.

M: What does that mean for us?

W: I don't blame you I am sorry I made your life so difficult. I can't be married to someone who left me. I can't promise I won't hit a rough spot again and I'll wonder if you're going to leave.

M: You're right. I can't live with the person who was making the choices you were. I can't be part of that again. I am also not ready to have someone in my life that doesn't recognize that the choices they made had consequences. Someone who chooses to run away and into another relationship instead of taking responsibility for their choices. I can't be in a relationship like that.

So we can do this the hard way or the easy way where we agree to everything.

W: I will agree to whatever. I am not mad at you anymore.

I am so ashamed of what I did. I started running away as fast as I could from everything. I started dating someone. I thought when I married you that you were the man I should have married the first time. And I can't see you forgiving me. I wouldn't forgive it.

M: What does all this mean?

W: You deserve someone better than me. I am just not worthy of it. I can't see myself around your family or friends. I am not sure you even know the person you married. I am not sure who I was when I married you.

M: So you don't want me to get to know who you really are?

W: I just can't. I can't promise I will be the wife you want.

M: So you are quitting because you are afraid? I don't want to sound mean I am just stating what I see.

I have been completely faithful to our M since I left and I believe that our M is worth that and that you are worth that.

W: I believe that you have and that is a very courageous thing to choose for yourself. To not run away. It was a very good thing for you. I don't want to hurt you I just can't see us together. I am sorry for what I have done to you.

<<<crying>>> This is just a really bad day for me. I got back late last night and have to go to a work thing tonight.

M: I am sorry to upset you we can to talk at another time.

All I know is we make choices and we make mistakes and they are only mistakes if we don't learn from them and choose better. You have to forgive yourself for your mistakes. You have to forgive yourself first or you won't ever be able to believe someone else forgiving you.

I am not sure I am ready to accept someone back in my life that can't imagine themselves there and worthy of being there.

It is up to you W.

W:I can't talk about this anymore I'm at work. Can you call me later? I will be out tonight but later this week?

M: Yes I will.

W: Give dog a kiss on the nose for me.

M: I will.

End of convo.

She is in full remorse I think. Now what?

[MrBond]

That's not remorse. Remorse is when a person regrets what they did and does everything they can to fix it. She's in selfish regret. Read through the thread again. It's filled with HER pain, HER anguish, SHE couldn't see herself being strong like you, etc.

She hasn't learned a single thing. She made mistakes and rather than doing the thing that is right (working on the M), she's taking the easy way out (giving up).

Here's what you need to do. Don't call her. Even though she asked you to. She is seeking validation from you that what she's doing is okay. She's looking at you to give her a hall pass that absolves her of any wrongdoing on her part. DONT DO IT!

Don't call her even if she calls you. Respond back after the 3rd or 5th call. And even then, act as if you're in the middle of something and can't talk to her in detail. If you want your W back, this is what you need to do. You need to show her that you don't need her and that you've moved on.

[punkin]

True,

I do not personally know either you or your wife. I only know you through these Boards. I hope you do not think ill of me, but my first instinctive response is she's setting you up for cake-eating. It sounds like female manipulation to assure herself you are still there, hanging on.

I may be completely wrong. As I said, I don't know her and you do, plus a conversation without benefit of intonation is flat and one sided.

Forgive me for being blunt. I am too cynical by far, but that's just my first instictive response.

[MsRae]

I haven't been on in awhile, True.

But I have been working.

This sounds too much like my H.

It IS about how he feels. Poor H and how bad he feels for himself. He still isn't taking responsibility for his part. He just wants everyone to know that HE feels bad.

I agree that TRUE remorse is wanting to take full ownership of every action...NOT trying to make you feel sorry for her because this is a mess she didn't anticipate. The people, places and things she is using aren't fixing it. So, now she just feels bad for herself and would like your empathy as well.

Like punkin said, you know her best and I too, am becoming far too cynical.

rae

[Queen_of_Swords]

(((TrueGritter)))
Oh wow True, she's having her own little pity party and invited you to commiserate.

She's done no work on herself during this time. She's run looking for a quick fix and hasn't found it. She needs help but won't reach for it for herself.

I am with Mr. Bond on this one.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

And I can't see you forgiving me. I wouldn't forgive it.

Similar words echo through time.

"I am not you, and don't use what you think I would or wouldn't do as the excuse justify your choice. What I will or will not do is up to me to determine."


I am not saying this is the opening dialogue to reconcilliation.

I am saying it is hard to see opportunities if you choose to blind yourself to them.

The idea in our head, of how a perfect reconcilliation should go, or what it would take for us to even think about it happening on our end...

Its a fantasy.

You still work for it, tooth and nail, inch by bloody inch, through the minefield.

Where you are Grit, and more importantly who you are and what you have become and done?

What does that phone call hurt?

If not you?

Then why not?

The door is cracked for a reason right? She asked. I'd see if she calls first, but...

Boundaries?

You can always modify your boundaries by your choice, even if it is temporarily.

...and I'll wonder if you're going to leave.

she said that.

The difficult part is when being dark or dim...its hard to show that this fear of theirs is now unfounded.

This choice is yours Grit, and it's a hard thin line.

[Mila]

I relate to what Jack said TG...some of the statements that your wife made could be interpreted as reaching out...clumsy as it may be....is it an opening?

As Jack said

This choice is yours Grit, and it's a hard thin line

(((hugs)))