OMG. H just called, and started asking about D12. I was able to talk to him about everything I wrote above, and he listened without arguing, very openly. The only thing he was a little unsure about was about what I have been talking to D12 about. Like many WAS, he is probably insecure about what I say to D12. He thinks I am poisoning D12's mind. No wonder he asked if D12 hates him! I told him that of course not, I know that they share a very special bond, why would I want to break that.
I don't know what that means....
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
ooops, sorry, i inadvertently clicked the send button. I mean to type that I don't know what our convo will bring to this sitch...
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
When I first started posting here - what seems a lifetime ago - there was a poster who used to write to me called NYSurvivor. He hit me with so many truths, so hard that over a period of 3 or 4 weeks I re-registered with different names twice to see if I could avoid him. He found me every time. I'm not sure if he knew I was the same person, but he certainly didn't let up on the DBing advice.
I hated him. I thought he was a cruel, heartless, emotionally sterile man. He wasn't kind. He wasn't diplomatic. He was straight up and down and he taught me, through painful 2x4s more than I can ever repay him for. In fact, reflecting on it now, I would never have made it through without the tough love he showed for me during those early months of my separation.
I know that my posts to you seem harsh. I don’t want to hurt you, and I know my posts are hitting your buttons that are painful. The thing about life is that we grow through pain. This time in your life sets you up for the rest of it, and I can guarantee you that you will be a different, stronger, even more amazing woman when you come out the other end of this.
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I know this is not DBing but I feel like I cannot leave a stone unturned in protecting my daughter from further hurt. I love her so much, more than anything.
I wonder if you reflect on it, you might see that you’re at a stage where you understand you can’t make excuses anymore for not DBing when it comes to your relationship – but you think you might have a get-out-of-jail-free-card if it’s about your daughter?
You don’t you know.
See the thing is, he won’t hear that it’s about your daughter. He’ll hear that it’s about you guilt tripping him… it’s telling that
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The only thing he was a little unsure about was what I have been talking to D12 about. … He thinks I am poisoning D12’s mind.
Angel – he may have listened openly, but that doesn’t mean he agrees with you or that he believes you. And to be fair to him, why would he believe that you haven’t been influencing D12, when he knows that you are very anxious and distressed and are very, very unhappy about his recent decisions.
In an earlier post, you talked about you having a panic attack and then your daughter becoming distressed and
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She then started crying, then blurted that she was so worried for mommy and daddy. She was afraid that “mommy is going to lose it, go crazy” because of problems”
You then admitted that D12 has a history of anxiety and has since she was 7. Presumably you guys were happily married then. It’s not really fair to blame your daughters reaction entirely on her father. Her pre-existing condition, your state-of-mind and reactions to your Hs crisis combined with the marriage problems are all contributing to that.
Right now, you can’t change what’s going on with your H – that’s his gig and he has every right to engage in it, but you could change how you behave in front of her and protect her from the emotional fallout from you?
I’ll make 2 points.
1. The longer you try to bargain, guilt, persuade etc, regardless of if it’s about the marriage or your daughter, the more he will go the opposite direction. Who wants to be with someone, or think about the long term with someone who tells them they’ve got it all wrong? They are hurting their child who they love and they are selfish and cruel for doing so?
Your husband is obviously going through something that means he hasn’t been happy in your relationship. DBing is a way to show him that things can be different and life with you will be happy and comfortable – it won’t be about throwing arrows and placing blame.
Men are simple creatures, they want to be with someone who makes them feel good about themselves.
2. Children learn how to behave and how to respond to challenges in their lives by what we teach them. They learn and they imitate. I’ve watched quite a few families go through difficult separations, divorces and some reunions. I can tell you categorically, that the children who come out the best are those who’s parents dealt with the separation calmly, were kind and gentle with themselves and their spouses and who rarely showed their children how distressed they were. I think Cyrena said it best when she said
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Moreover, the better role model your daughter sees you becoming, the more she will follow.
You want to show your husband that you are an emotionally stable, capable, loving, kind, happy woman. Be the better option Angel.
Are you able to take advantage of any counseling or therapy to deal with the panic attacks that you are having? When I was going through my separation, I had panic attacks, and some years later my H told me that it was the most scary and unattractive thing he’d ever experienced. He said when I had those episodes he felt obliged to look after me, but he really resented me and having to look after me.
Men love women who are strong, who can look after themselves and who are resilient. Think about the woman you were when you and your H first got together – who was she Angel? Did you like her? Is there anything in her that you’d like to recapture in your life now?
Keep at it Angel and be kind to yourself. This is tough stuff and there are no quick fixes.
((Angel))
Take care, V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
I cried reading this and I am still crying. I could write the same letter to my H. I will have to take some time to digest and reread to let you know if you should change anything. I think the DBing part would keep the focus on D16. But I will be back later to read again and comment.
Blessings,
Lorie W47 H48 D16 M20 H gone 11/9/10 lives w/OW
When you forgive,you heal. When you let go,you grow. When you cry to God, you surrender. When you love unconditionally, you show others Christ's love.
My H said last week that he wants us to move forward with filing. My DB coach suggested I approach him with asking for ideas on how we can get along in our R for D's sake - she is planning a wedding for this fall, and this should a happy time for her. I'm hoping we'll both contribute ideas for the R. Will he contribute? Will this postpone the filing/D? Who knows, but hopefully it will be less painful for our D, and as a result, our S.
Please read and reread Virginia’s post. She’s said it much more eloquently and tactfully than I probably will.
I can tell you that the people that challenged me the most, the one’s I thought didn’t understand me or my situation, the one’s I thought were being harsh and critical, are the people who’s perspective and advice helped me the most.
By your own admission, you are modelling anxiety and fear and panic for your daughter Angel. Her feelings are coming from a combination of your H’s behaviour and your reaction to it ... not to mention any pre-existing anxiety issues she may have.
Leaving no stone unturned sounds good in theory, but it’s also an excuse to engage in behaviour that you know, or have the ability to know, is not going to move you towards your goal. DB is counter intuitive, and as such requires a conscious effort to engage in. It will feel unnatural and will not align with traditional and ingrained ways of handling situations.
Angel, Lorie and anyone else reading this thread ... PLEASE read Virginia’s words carefully ... put your pride aside for a moment if it tries to surface, and it likely will ... it’s not fun to come to a realization that we are also still contributing when we want to focus our blame and pain on our WAS.
DB is not just a set of techniques to manipulate someone back into our lives ... it is a set of skills and tools we should integrate into our lives and our interactions with everyone ... our S, our children, our friends and family. To be the people we need to be in order to truly incorporate the DB mindset and philosophy takes a major shift. It’s work. Hard work. But it can be done. Even by recovering insecure control freaks like me
(((Angel))) Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I don't find your posts harsh, on the contrary, they are like a loving mothers' admonition. You are right, I am at that point that I have no excuse for not DB'ing. I wil read and reread your post.
The forces that drive us though vary. The instinct for survival actually had me DBing even before I learned about DB. I remember during bomb time, instead of getting angry and begging, I actually listened to my H and agreed with a lot of what he said, asking why he did not tell me sooner, and he was so surprised that I did not get angry. Somehow, my H is still home, and I believe using the DB made me stronger, has kept me even keeled most of the time, able to work, at home I am always pleasant, we actually function like a normal couple in many ways, except that we both know that there are a couple of elephants in the room: OW/MLC and the threat of S or D. Most of the time I ignore those elephants (DBing mode) but once in a while I get claustrophobic and start kicking them and this is when I backslide.
The maternal instinct though seems to go over and above self preservation.
But my moment of weakness - my anxiety attack - was the direct cause of my D12's anxiety as well. I do admit that, and it has strengthened my resolve to not cave in and be more focused with DB'ing.
Well, I did get to say what I wanted and knowing H, it will take some time but he will digest it. He does come around, and he lets me know when I have said something that he accepts. Like the time I said that we should not sully our past with the present - that we should remember them as happy times because then how will D12 remember her childhood as happy. He embraced that wholeheartedly and I notice that once in a while now he is able to talk about past events openly, in front of me. He still has logic in him. We still do have a give and take dynamic somehow - he points out things to me, actually helps me DB by leting me know how he reacts to what I say and do. I tell him how I feel and what I think is logical and he considers them.
As I said at present he is in this eveything is my fault mode, he has stopped blaming me, I rarely hear that except with that bit about questioning what I say to D12.
Something hit me when you said that men want to be with someone who makes them feel comfortable. I know the OW has been verbal about her guilt, and this has made H point all the blame towards himself. I think the OW also has been having some mental health issues or medical issues cause I saw some doctors names (mental, endocrine specialists) scribbled on a piece of paper located in OW's city, as though H has been helping her search (she always depends on H to help her search for everything, as though she cannot go to Google herself, guess thats the helpless maiden act). H probably is now starting to feel the demands being made on him, both mentally and otherwise, and I sense him starting to be appear exhausted, running out of fight, for some reason.
I guess all the more I should be upbeat, healthy, stable and be the better option.
Lorie, I am glad you appreciate my putting down into words what I feel in my heart. Although H would probably not get to see it anytime soon(or maybe I will give him a copy if I see that he is willing to discuss, he told me last night that we should talk some more, I will take out anything that has to do with pressuring him to reconsider his choices, or finger pointing. I will see if I could approach this more as a team.
I just want him to know what I see will happen to D12 as a result of this situation we are in. He is a doctor, he understands mental health issues and actually was very instrumental in helping D12 overcome her first anxiety episode, as during that time I was a wreck.
Thanks again everyone.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
As they say around here, it's better to be right than happy. Your letter to H was "right" in all respects--but, Sweetie, an MLC man, no matter how hard he's trying to do the right thing, is not mentally able to process things as you meant him to. Even if he's receptive on one swing of the pendulum, he's going to be in 20 different emotional places on the following swings. So, if you can't make him do the right thing, or make him happy, try to work on making yourself happy. You're still totally focusing on his whims as though they were solid signposts of something. The only place you'll be able to find stability, in the end, will be in yourself.
Yes, all our children lost their innocence when one parent went into MLC. But if your D had lost it some other way--contracted childhood cancer, had a leg amputated, etc etc--what would you do? Probably, try to make life as normal as possible, and teach her to make the best of all the good left in her life, and to gain strength from accepting and growing through her pain. You would not want her to see herself as a weak victim, or treat her as one. Should you treat the current crisis any differently?
Just remember the motive in writing the letter or talking to him about D11. If your motive is to make him feel guilty or to win him back, then DON'T do it. I do like the team approach to helping D much better. Hold on to it a little longer and pray about it and let God guide you in approaching this situation. You are a strong person, and work on keeping that stance for you and D.
(((HUGS)))
Lorie W47 H48 D16 M20 H gone 11/9/10 lives w/OW
When you forgive,you heal. When you let go,you grow. When you cry to God, you surrender. When you love unconditionally, you show others Christ's love.
To be honest, if it were not for D12, there would be no agonizing decisions to make. I would have gotten to the point of gracefully letting go.
I have already told that to H. I said that there are two forces in me.... my love for him actually makes me feel that I want him to be happy and want to let him go. But I cannot bear that D12 will be hurt. True, she can get hurt in many other ways, but if it is something within our control, why risk it? What if this triggers something like anorexia nervosa in my daughter? I have a real fear as I have seen her before, not eating, only drinking yoghurt drinks for weeks on end. At 7 years of age! She lost so much weight, had gastritis. She underwent 6 mosnths of therapy. And the root cause was our move, where she had to transfer to a new school. She did not want to make friends as she was afraid we would move again and she would have to lose her friends.
In one of our R talks some weeks ago, H wanted to tell D12 about our situation but somehow, something made me stop him. I told him what if it would trigger her anxiety. He said she's older now and probably not going to have it again. Well, this episode showed that she still is as fragile as ever. Thank God I was able to prevent him from telling her at that time.
Cyrena, I understand that I have to find my own happiness, separate from H. I am already looking for it, and was actually planning already to quit my present job in a couple of years, review for the licensure exams so I could practice my profession here in the USA. This I proposed to H as a way to prepare for our eventual separation, and he was very happy to commit to helping me out financially when this happens. In the meantime, I plan to DB my a** off!
I don't think that any of my plans will change at this point, I think I am just caught up in the emotion of the moment. The letter is just meant to clarify, and maybe propose a longer waiting period to H (our original plan is 2 years) before he starts working on D papers, etc. If it makes him decide to stay because of D12, I will just make the best of it then.
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
