What should I do?

[Queen_of_Swords]

"You can have the same situation the same words, and four people are going to have four different reactions depending on the damage or programming they received as children."

So what you are saying is that "someone" needs to "see" the hurt.. and respond to it? I clearly could have just let my post stand.. and you may not have ever posted again. Where would that leave us?


No, what I am saying is that depending on who you are your PERCEPTION of events/words/actions is different. The PERCEPTION needs to be confronted with a reality/truth check.


"Well lead time is good Forest, you know we women are like electric stoves in our responses, not a gas flame...there is no instant on."

But.. I have to be "instant on". And I have to maintain that "heat" for a long time. How can you expect me to be "instant" while you warm up? This seems quite unfair. And I suspect it leads to my thought that I need to be twice as good.

Forest, now you want to argue what I suggested? All I'm saying is take sex differences into consideration it's the way we women are "built". It may be unfair, but it is what it is.

I personally expect nothing of you Forest.
If you let me as your beloved wife know early in the day by flirting with me, being suggestive, letting me know that you want to make love with me...it gets my mind going in the proper direction. That's all I'm saying dude. The brain is the primary sex organ.
Forest you do not have to be twice as good and exactly what do you mean by the word good? Competant, considerate, sensitive, performance...etc.?

Her LL is now Time. It was Gifts. Or maybe a combination of "Giving Time". Again.. this is confusing to a Physical LL person. I need to "see" action. I am still waiting.

So you have discussed it. Your primary and secondary languages, and dialects thereof? Good. I understand you want change and reasonably so, IMHO. I wonder...is there something else going on...hormonal, fear of pregnancy, discomfort etc?

I like your idea.. and I have done some things that would fall into that category. I think the reason that they failed was most likely my "mindset". I am having a really hard time this time. Simply because I told myself if I was ever here again.. I would walk. Right now.. I am questioning if "this" is worth it.

I understand. That's a decision only you can make.

"If it isn't working do something else until you find what does."

What would work for me is if she did something.. anything.. that even showed me she cared. It would have to be an action. This is my 4-5th time around with this. I am still waiting. I know that is not the smart thing to do. But.. the next "different" thing I am gonna do.. is call her bluff.

Can you recall any small actions she has done to show you she does care? Sometimes we miss or don't recognise the little things. I know I have missed many of those acts of caring with my H.

"What's the alcohol for Forest? Is it to let your walls down so you can feel or is it to numb out? If it's to numb out is it to numb the pain of disappointment or neglect? Think really hard on this."

Based on your question.. I have to say it is to feel. But to me that implies that I use it to "numb". Either way I still think that I understand where she is coming from. I still think she has no idea where I am coming from. If I made choices while drinking.. I would not be posting "here".

Ok, so you drink to lower your inhibitions , bring down the walls. She may not know where you're coming from, not many mind read with great accuracy. Perhaps that can be addressed in counselling in a neutral environment?

"Forest I have to say from the description of your wife by you, it sounds to me like there is some depression going on ...the way she's painted here, she barely seems to have an interest in life, she's lackluster, self contained, a shadow."

But you are reading what I am saying.

What I "see".

I don't know that she is a "shadow" or depressed.

She is just clearly not the person I married.

She has become someone I do not really even like.

The sad part about that is that most likely I am the one that had a hand in making her that.

Not necessarily Forest. More than likely a lot of old crap in her head is defining who she thinks she OUGHT to be, including the opinions you have of her, with those being the least of it.

I have not "seen" the person I married.. in I don't know how long. I feel I have given an honest shot at it. But.. I "see" nothing. I mean.. she told me to take the money and run. For the 4-5th time.

Forest, as someone that was once clinically depressed, it sure as heck sounds like your wife is.
She's got self esteem issues big time going on, in my non professional and humble opinion.

"Because it won't be easy."

None of this has been "easy". From my point of view it has been easy on her.. because she has had her way. I have left her alone. I have changed my ways. I have stood up.

When does it become her turn?

I would genuinely like to make a recommendation for you both, but I cannot. Although if you look at a past post I made to MsRae you will find search terms that will guide you to a valuable resource. You will have to poke around a fair bit. I suggest you take the time.

I will say, it will be her turn when SHE defines who she is, when she's emotionally healthy and has addressed all the wounds that are just wearing bandaids, and YOU with her.

When does she make a post on DB.com.. looking for answers?

"Do you know how I know? About four months ago, I was in so much emotional pain I had an R talk with my H. In it I said to him, " What was I to you anyway? Just a f*ck toy?" He said " You think so little of me!" I said, " No, I think that you think so little of ME!"

Let me be clear.. I don't think lightly about my f*ck toy. I don't want anyone else messing with it. It is the most important thing in my life. I went to the store.. I picked out the best one I could find. I researched it on the internet and it was the best one. The action of you being my "toy" is a true show of love. I know that sounds harsh.. but I just can't show you any other way. You think less of me for looking at you that way. You can't "see" the value.

Forest, you're making this about you and very personally when I stated that THIS ISN"T ABOUT YOU!
It's about how she views herself.
If she only sees her value as sexual, she feels DEVALUED as a person! Feeling that your only value is sexual means that you could be ANY woman with a functional reproductive system. It means she could wear a paper bag on her head and it wouldn't matter. It means she's a thing - an object.

Yes I understand that you value your "toy", but if that's all you value about a woman, is means the rest of what she is, is devalued.

The action of you being my "toy" is a true show of love.

Yes I understand that to men this is often true. You equate sex with love, however we also know you can split/box off the sex and it can be just sex ...a booty call.

I know that sounds harsh.. but I just can't show you any other way.

There are many ways to show us you love us. Making love,is the pinnacle when we are in harmony, and it is deep and soul nourishing.

You think less of me for looking at you that way. You can't "see" the value.

No, we like to know we are desired and desirable. We think less of you if that's the ONLY way you look at us.


How is it any different than you telling me that I need to "wait for the oven"?

Forest, if you want to bake bread that sucker needs preheating. That's all.

You defined your "value" on what you thought he wanted from you.

Forest I defined his evaluation on me as only being sexual, because the rest of what I had to bring to the table I felt/believed didn't matter one bit. Only my reproductive acts mattered and the children borne from them.

I would say.. you assumed to much.
Too much or not enough?

Based on your comment above I will assume that your comments were not well received.

As I wrote, he took it as an indictment of his character. When it was really about my pain and distress in being so easily dismissed and discounted.

I won't tell you how many times I have heard the same thing from her.

"Do you see a parallel?"

Yes.