I know my timing isn't great here, but your list made me think that doing this exercise might help you, it is the very first thing Cal worked with me on when she put all the time in with me back in June of this year, before our first court date.
I thought it might help you, it certainly helped me see my contribution to the breakdown of our marriage.
What are you doing differently? What things have you changed and why have you changed them? What 180's are you doing?
What goals have you set for the R? How are you measuring these goals and what baby steps have you set for yourself so that you know you're accomplishing them?
What goals have you set for yourself? What things are you doing for your own well being? Do you have friends that you go out with regularly, a hobby... something you do independently from your H? Have you started an exercise program or something like that, changed your hairstyle...?
What are the major contributors, according to your H, to the breakdown of the R? How does your H feel about these things? Take your clues from his words. What actions can you take to make him feel differently? (For example, if he says that you never listen to him, your action would be to listen more... and you can set more specific goals for this.)
Do you two have a common pattern of arguing? How can you stop this pattern? How do you know when an argument is over? Is there a way you can incorporate this "signal" into stopping the pattern of the argument? Do you push each other's buttons? How can you stop pushing those buttons and how can you stop reacting to the pushing of those buttons?
I want you to take some time to think about what your H would list as the main contributors to the breakdown of the marriage. What things would he list as complaints against you and your behavior. Be 100% honest with yourself here. Think about conversations you've had, words he's said, things you've observed, things that you know you do wrong... Try to see and think from his point of view and write your list here when you're done. (I ended up with about 10 things, Sage had about 33 in her list so size isn't a limit.)
(Some of you may be thinking - why do I have to change myself to suit their needs but unless you're perfect, I bet there are some things about yourself that need a little housekeeping. I know that when I started treating my H better, it seeped into other areas of my life and I started feeling better about myself. I love the person I am today because of the changes I made. I look back at the person I was and I'm happy that I'm no longer like that! I made them for him AND myself.)
-------------------- -Calystra
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Karen, there is something that I am not understanding here. If you KNOW you do all of these things and you KNOW that they are detrimental to your R then WHY don't you address them?? WHY come here and tell us that you already KNOW what you do wrong and WHY even (you reference psychobabble bs a lot) and then just sit there on your thumbs and do NOTHING?? You went for 6 weeks (again a constant reference) and was doing well...what happened that you decided to get lazy again and do NOTHING??
Until you address the problems that you repeatedly say you KNOW exhist your R/M hasn't a snowballs chance. Your H cannot fix them for your...your problems lie in yourself. Your C is correct in telling your H NOT to give you false affirmations. He shouldnt have to just to salve your ego or hurt feelings. Once YOU start fixing YOU then I bet the rest will fall into place.
My apologies if i seem overly harsh...this is just something I learned the hard way.
Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
thanks everyone for writing me! Pam, I'll do your hw soon, I promise!
I want to address Zoo's response since it is the freshest, different, pointed and true.
Zoo, you don't need to apologize for being harsh. I appreciate your honesty and determination.
Why don't I do this? I'M F'IN SCARED. I know that this is not an accuse and it's not even rational. I have these negative beliefs about myself and h/men that have been ingrained that I cling to for some reason. I just can't (don't/won't) give them up. I don't know why it is so hard to believe that I am lovable. I have lots of good qualities, and am a good person, etc.
I'm so enmeshed with my old way of doing things. I break away for awhile and then am reminded by myself of where I came from. I would love to be able to break free. What am I afraid of? That he won't find me attractive later in life, that he'll take me for granted (biggie), that he won't "give me what I want," that this r will never be how i want it to be, that he will reject me, that someone will pull the rug out from under me. I'm afraid that if I do trust, I will be taken advantage of or fooled. I'm afraid he may deceive me in some way. (Though he is extremely honest).
Yes, I'm lazy too. Stuck in the same ole same ole. I did this with other bf's. I sought help back then... I guess I think that it is too much work and I want someone to do it for me. I am, as my h calls me (lovingly/half kidding/half serious) a BRAT! I want it my way. I want it now. I want him to cater to me. (That is so ridiculously absurd!!!) I want this to be easy. I want him to help/do it for me. I want a scapegoat. I want to curl up and die. (no, not suicidal-figuratively) I'm jealous of him. I want to have a FIT! I want to bang my head against the wall and jump up and down and scream and cry and punch. Not to hurt him. As I have said before: I hate him b/c I love him.
He has taken my heart. He's promised to care for it, he's made the vows. I have no reason not to believe in him.
I just want to step back/take a retreat/have some time for me by myself journaling or praying or whatever. I want to quit trying so hard. I want for this to fall into place. It could have/would have been so nice naturally had I not had these fears. I have tried and tried and tried to sabotage the best thing that has ever happened to me. But, if he went away, I would hate myself and blame myself b/c I had pushed him away.
I wish I could stop myself from closing myself off once we reach a higher point in our r. When we become closer, when I trust, accept, love him openly and genuinely I love it. But then, I just don't believe that it will last or continue or that I deserve to be happy. I turn my anger at myself towards him. I accuse him of doing the very things that I do to him.
Thank you for not taking my post as too harsh. Learning to love one's self is a harsh business though and I believe can only best be done in the bluntest, toughest way you can.
I know where your coming from about being afraid, having a ton of old hang-ups, being lazy, low/no self esteem, hating one's self so much that you'd rather smash the mirror in then look at yourself for one more millisecond. This is regardless of the good qualities that you KNOW you possess.
You have made progress in that you do KNOW wherein your problems lie...it took me years to figure that out. Until I did it was "F-you, except me as I am or kiss my a$$ 'cause I ain't gonna change for nobody".
Now you just have to stop being lazy, because I think therein is your major problem. You use the little fears and past memeories to justify the laziness to yourself which in no way helps your sitch at all. Do you REALLY want to be a martyr so that if/when your H does leave you can say "see, I told you this would happen and really it IS what I deserve for being such a horrible person to him"? Will that make you feel batter in any way? And if that were to happen then what did you learn that would keep you from making the same mistakes all over again in the next R you might have? Have you already doomed yourself to a life of unhappiness...in a sense laying the groundwork for a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Too many people here have been the type of person you say you are right now...bemoaning and berating themselves and doing nothing about it until one day BLINK, BLINK, the lightbulb goes off and the wake up and start working on themselves and worry about the other crap later. Many of us find the other crap gets repaired right alongside us too
You have to choose your moment, there is no doubt about that. I think you are fast running out of time though to act. Our H's have only so much patience and then they start giving up...that is when affairs happen, the lies begin multiplying and trust takes a vacation. Do you want it to be too little too late??
Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Here's a chilling thought: It TOOK my H asking for a D for me to get off my lazy a$$ and CHANGE my outlook and behaviours.
I took CJ for granted, felt "entitled" to 'be myself'...regardless of how it made him feel.
When the bomb dropped, I begged him to stay, on my hands and knees, swearing I would change. He didn't believe it possible, nor that I WOULD.
But I DID...it was the requisite for our piecing, I would NOT be where I am had I not been so shaken that my old behaviours seemed pointless. Had I not really worked on myself.
Am I COMPLETELY different as a person? No! Just a lot more patient, more easy going, more appreciative, more independent, less demanding.
You CAN do it...don't let it take what it took for me!
AWESOME post to Cindy... I was rereading DR AGAIN today and thought that Cindy and you might benefit from getting a refresher from DR. I know that I do... Her thread is locked, but, read pages 137 to 140, does and don'ts of Divorce Busting. It really helps to reaffirm what I am doing. Hang in there!!
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Karen, you're posts are honest and insightful to the point of being raw. I'm thoroughly impressed by your courage and ability to speak so frankly.
Now, if you would only call up that same courage to break free of those old chains you've been carrying around all these years. Making room for positive changes can only help improve your marital situation, and even more importantly, help you to feel more comfortable inside yourself.
What I'm hearing is, "I know you'll eventually leave me, so I'm going to CONTROL the reason why". And "Since I fear that you will someday leave me, I'm leaving first - if not physically - then emotionally."
This is an issue launched from a 'fear of abandonment'. This is an issue that fuels the drive to self-sabotage. This is a CONTROL issue.
And, I'll bet anything, that you already realize all of this. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that as you sit there reading these posts, you already know what it is you need to do. Am I Right?
Your inner dialogue chatters on endlessly in a looped like trance, and it has you frozen in time and space.
Your greatest ally at this very moment is your inner 'will'. That little piece of you that has not been swallowed up by all those joy sucking voices in your head.
For each day that you do NOT take steps to move out of this "trance", you move closer to losing more and more of the very things that give meaning to your life.
Until you step away from your familiar yet debilitating cocoon, no amount of support or encouragement is going to bare fruit.
Quote: This is an issue launched from a 'fear of abandonment'. This is an issue that fuels the drive to self-sabotage. This is a CONTROL issue.
That was my worst enemy "fear of abandonment". And what happened? That's right! I sabotaged my own life, my M! Even though I cringe to say this, it is a control issue. I was stupid and listened to "friends" who encouraged me to control my H!
What the hay! Where did it get me? My worst fear: life without my H.
So, my #1 goal is to change me back into the girl I use to be about 6 yrs ago. I like that person. Sorry that in the process last year I had to push some friends OUT of my life. But, I had to do it! I can't be who I want to be hanging around those negative bottom feeders!
So Karen, take some advice. Loose that attitude!
Just telling you, I don't want you to end up like me.
This is so what I have wanted to share with Karen and just didn't know HOW to say it, that is beautifully put.
And I KNOW it is true, all the posts in the world didn't help me till I made the decision that no matter how freakin' hard it was I wanted it and I was going to do it!!!
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
