Quote: I wouldn't be surprised if he wrapped up a D and gave it to me for xmas.
I wanted to find an appropriate xmas card, but can't find one that says, "gee, i've been such an @sshole. Thanks for spending the holidays with me anyway." so i got a cute one and may just write that on the side.
karen
No, he isn't going to wrap up a D and give it to you for Christmas.
Are you sure you want to write that on the card? IF you feel you need to as a way of apologizing then do, but otherwise what everyone kept hitting me over the head with and I understand now, don't always manage, ACTIONS, NOT WORDS!!!
Show him you are glad he is spending the holidays with you, do little special things as well as giving him some space.
Be Fun, Centered and Calm!!!!!!!
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!!!
Have a great day today!
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
So, I didn't get a D for Christmas!!! Our holiday was very nice and we had a few days off together. I started to get sick on xmas eve, went to dr. on Friday and am now feeling better. Just tired...very tired and dehydrated. H has been nice-I think his vaca. helped him to relax.
Last night he went out with his friends and I was fine w/it (and almost suggested it before his friend called.) I went to eat with my mom and she came over and watched a movie. Today he is going for a bike ride. It's unseasonably warm again!
I have been frustrated with my MIL. Cheesecake is my specialty and I love making them, but she announced on Tuesday that she bought cheesecake from the wholesale club and not to complain!!! I was very upset and hurt. H told her 3 times I would make one, I didn't know that he had this convo. with her. Then H had a piece over there and said it really wasn't that good. I asked if he was just saying that (first I said, "well, DUH!?), but he said no that it wasn't that good. Then she was asking me what would happen if she froze it for the second time. (She had a TON left over.)
She and her h were joking about getting a big sub next year and I asked why she doesn't do a pot luck, and she made a face and said no, like this is sub-standard...I don't get it. Her sister is a v. good cook, and I think I am too. (Maybe she doesn't or just wants all of the limelight for the cooking.) H just says that she is stubborn and has to do everything herself. So, whatever, right? EVERYONE else asks me for cheesecake!!
karen P.S. I told h I was sorry for being such a jerk and he said, "well, we got through it." YAY...he bounced back nicely. I think freaking out over the holidays is a trend for me. Plus I was PMS'ing.
Hi, how is everyone doing? I feel pretty crappy right now. I was in a good mood and thought that h and i were recovering from my battering him over the holidays. Last night he said he's been really tired lately, so i said maybe you are fighting off a cold, he said no, then i said stressed out? He said kinda. I asked if it was about work and he said no. So I get sad and ask if it is me. He says he is tired and doesn't want to talk about it until another day.
I cry, he asks why I am doing this. I say because I don't want you to divorce me. (OK, I'm slightly paranoid). He told me not to jump to conclusions. I had a horrible night sleep, cried a lot, was having coughing fits, went out to the couch.
I just feel so angry that all of our probs are on me. There are a lot of things that he said he would do for our r, but now he refuses b/c he doesn't want to be controlled. He says I am impatient and don't give him enough time to improve on these things before I get upset and start crying again.
This marriage is obviously not how I had imagined. I know I have hurt him and continue to, so why do I want so bad for him to change and to help me? ie reassurances, putting effort into the romance of our r, planning stuff, telling me loves or cares about me. He says he will do that stuff when he is good and ready. I've stepped on his toes so many times that he is not putting them out there anymore.
Well, now I am anxious to hear what he has to say, but I think in order to not fight that I need to validate his feelings, and not point the finger back at him. He knows he is stubborn. But, I don't think bringing this up will help. Not sure??? I want to save my m, I'm just having a really hard time doing it and feel like he is not participating. Although, he has been making a lot of baby steps-calling more often to say hi or let me know where he is, asking if i care if he goes out (sat. when i was sick), doing housework, etc.
I need to not be so paranoid and have my life depend on him. I need to quit blaming him in my head somehow and having expectations. But, I am tired of trying to read his mind. Last night we went to bed and he was laying in a way not conducive to snuggling and one point i thought he was going to initiate sex, but i jokingly said, what are you doing b/c he kept looking at me then rolls over w/a h.o. I thought, if he wants me, why can't he say it? So he backed off and rolled over. I asked if i was to assume that he didn't want to snuggle. He said he never said that. Well, he never said or indicated that he did.
(((((Karen))))) Honey, have you picked up the DR book or just using it as a paperweight/collector? I only ask because of this statement that you made in your post
Quote: why do I want so bad for him to change and to help me
Repeat after me: I cannot make my H change, I can only change me. Okay? If you are waiting for him to change or trying to control his behavior, keep banging your head against that wall. Keep beating that dead horse.
Quote: He says he is tired and doesn't want to talk about it until another day.
So, you HAVE to give him space when he says stuff like this. This is a cheeseless tunnel to keep pushing him to talk when he just told you he didn't want to. This is controlling behavior.
Quote: I just feel so angry that all of our probs are on me. There are a lot of things that he said he would do for our r, but now he refuses b/c he doesn't want to be controlled. He says I am impatient and don't give him enough time to improve on these things before I get upset and start crying again
I don't know if your H is having a MLC or what... but I do know that if he is, or any sort of crisis, YES, all the problems (in his mind) are YOUR FAULT. Again, read DR, especially the MLC chapter. Of course, he does not want to be controlled, and you MUST be PATIENT. You must step back from the R. You must let him lead, drop the rope as they say.
Quote: feel like he is not participating
You cannot count on his participation, you have to go at this as if you are going at it alone. It is a huge burden, yes...
Quote: Well, now I am anxious to hear what he has to say, but I think in order to not fight that I need to validate his feelings, and not point the finger back at him
Let him come to you, stop running after him.
Quote: Although, he has been making a lot of baby steps-calling more often to say hi or let me know where he is, asking if i care if he goes out (sat. when i was sick), doing housework, etc.
Okay, start with these. You said yourself "lots of baby steps." Right these down. Journal. Just the positives, not all the negatives. Make yourself see. Give this time. Stop taking its temperature. Let it heal.
Quote: I need to not be so paranoid and have my life depend on him.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Quote: I need to quit blaming him in my head somehow and having expectations
Yes. NO EXPECTATIONS
Quote: I thought, if he wants me, why can't he say it?
I used to think like this with my H. Is physical touch his love language? Then why not GIVE it to him when he wants it. Why does he have to ask? Because you WANT him to ask? That, too, is controlling behavior and a lot of us women are guilty of controlling sex because we can. We want our man to ask for it, or do without instead of freely offering it up like it is a gift we WANT to give to them. Would this fill up his love bank? Would he WANT to give more to you? Fill him up, Karen. Do it when you can. With no expectations.
Quote: I asked if i was to assume that he didn't want to snuggle. He said he never said that. Well, he never said or indicated that he did.
Why not snuggle with him... risk rejection. Snuggle with no expectation. Take advantage of the h.o. Offer physical touch when you can, don't make him ask.
Karen, think of your positives. That is the only way to get out of this funk. You need to let a lot of this stuff go... act as if everything is wonderful. Agree with everything he says. Find things you respect about him and tell him what those are. Make him feel better about himself. When he does those baby steps, affirm them, let him know how much you appreciate it. Be cheery, loving, horny with him. Be the flirty girlfriend. No pressure, No R talks. NONE. Let him talk to you. Let him come to you. Find your life, what makes you happy and do those things. Get busy.
Don't let his emotions, his stuff run your life. Set some goals, you can do it. Is this HARD? Yes. But you have to do it, Karen. IF YOU WANT to do it. You can't make him. You can only control you. Take care of yourself, sweetie. Decide if this M is worth working on. And if it is, get yourself a Starbucks and sit down and read.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread, (I will) but taking from your latest post, I hear a lot of simularities to what I went through during my own recovery process.
Let me just boil down a few points now until I can catch up on your situation.
Although I am an advocate of staying-in-touch with, and expressing one's emotions, I must caution you against sharing or exposing them with your H - at this time.
Secondly, beware of asking him questions that even vaguely resemble 'probing'.
I know that it is terribly difficult to function gracefully with all the fatigue, illness, stress and fear that you are living with, but the more calm and confident you appear to him - the better for you.
He is struggling with his own demons, so he needs to feel your strength more than ever right now.
Karen, Here is a bit of wisdom from the very wise Jeannine that she responded to me with a while ago on her thread (huh?). Anyway:
Quote: One other thing that came to mind in reference to your question is that back in the middle of the hurricane, my fear seemed to enlarge the fear he was grappling with, my hopelessness seemed to deepen his sense of hopelessness, my fiery emotions seemed to ignite his kerosene soaked emotions and so on. I think that he is prone to following my lead in some areas, so I have to be careful to set a good example - no matter how much I want to bonk him over the head at times.
and from Optimist:
Quote: The ride the crest thing reminded me of how to get out of a rip current (you Floridians must have heard of those ): rule #1 You do not fight against it, you follow it and let it take you out by itself. You do not fight waves, you'll just exhaust yourself and ultimately drown. You must use the energy in the upsurge to carry you where you want to be and let the downsurge pass through...
Take care of yourself, today (and everyday). Thinking of you.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I lent my DR to a friend and haven't seen it since. :.( I do have DB though. How do the two differ?
No, he's not having an MLC. I know you are not completely familiar w/my sit, but I had been so needy/dependent/insecure/jealous/controlling and crying all the time that he got exhausted. He first tried to reassure me, but I continued to get upset.
Also, re: sex, I have NEVER EVER turned him down (until last night??). I'm usually the one saying I want more and pursuing him. I'm like the guy in the r is this regard, he is more concerned with the r and getting along. Obviously, my crying all the time is not a turn on. So, flirting has not gone over very well with him.
I just get tired for having to initiate snuggling/sex, where we go and what we do/making any plans, wanting to hear words. My LL is words/affirmation, his i would say is QT.
I know I am just banging my head against the wall. It hurts! I can feel it and I have huge lumps! OK, I must come to grips with this stuff. I know that I need to set some goals, give up a lot of this crap, stop worrying about what everyone else thinks of me and worry about what me thinks of me.
Get yourself a copy of the book titled "Couple Fits". Sounds like you are married to an avoidant (well, duh). Here's info from the book on the avoidant personality from one of my previous posts:
********************************** I kind of found out what is up with him by reading the book "Couple Fits" by Evelyn Cohen. He's an avoidant (imagine that!). His personality is:
*a dodger of conflict (well, duh!) *oblivious to moods & feelings, both his own and those of others *good in a crisis *someone who likes peace at any price (sort of) *unspontaneous *a stalwart partner (solid, reliable, responsible but not intimate) *fearful of dependency *Mr. Nice Guy (very charming but no emotion in his words) *often a great success in his chosen career *in need of lots of praise *often passive agressive and/or sarcastic *unconscious of past hurts (don't deal with it and feelings go away) *therapy challenged *slow to love (doesn't believe that love will last so makes very careful choices of who to love, but faithful to one and only love)
Best way to handle an avoidant:
*Drag your partner in on the 'small stuff'. Keep making an effort to get him to sit up and take notice because the 'small stuff' has a cumulative, negative effect. *Press for action, not analysis. A little analysis probably goes a long way with your avoidant partner. Push the underlying emotional issues, talk about your feelings, or motives and you may run into a brick wall. But you can get a lot more of what you want or need simply by focusing on actions and going light on analysis. *Don't back your partner into a corner (at least not very often). While he is capable of complying with a specific request for action it is often with a certain amount of anxiety or feeling put upon. If he starts feeling backed into a corner, the only way he can come out of it is by fighting. *Don't resent having to be the initiator *Don't Hero Worship
For the avoidant:
*When angry, annoyed, or in conflict with your partner, say so *Give your partner signs and signals of appreciation *Try at odd moments to define your partner's mood *Become aware of your inclination to hear suggestions as criticisms *Say to yourself regularly "my partner is a true friend"
This book "Couple Fits" has given me great insight as to how my h thinks and why he's acting the way he is. Now I just have to use what I know!!!! Somehow? I want to give my h the book to read!
For your info: the other personalities in the book are Secure and Ambivalent. This book is great because it shows you what the different personalities are as couples, gives conversations and in depth description of the interactions of the couples: how they fit together and what they can do to make a more comfortable fit. Very, very helpful!
The part about him not knowing his feelings or other's feelings indicates the reason why he wants me to pursue then doesn't want me to pursue. He really doesn't know what he feels! Like you said stick with the book and going with that is my best bet. *************************
I know that I need to be less emotional/less emotionally dependent on him. I've struggled with this all of my life. I cried numerous times a day when I was a child. I've talked to so many c's about feeling better about myself, but do not find applicable skills. They keep repeating to me, "you don't believe you are loveable, you need to love yourself.., " but don't tell me how-even when I ask. I specifically asked and told this to my current? c and she said, oh, we'll work on that. But it's the same old same old. Then she gives me negative images to think of myself in, duh, then I go home feeling worse and get upset.
I know I need to probe less. He's been real good as of late to tell me that he is tired or sore from work. He also has told me on numerous occassions, that if something is bothering him, he will speak up. Well, in regards to the current sit, it has been the same old same old for 4 years, and he thinks it is silly to repeat himself. Yes, he is frustrated, yes he is dissapointed, no I don't understand how he feels totally, etc.
ACTIONS, NOT WORDS!!! 
