Slowly building again.

[Harrier]

Man,

I am struggling tonight. This a hard slog for sure. I'm very depressed tonight as well as kinda angry at the situation. It didn't help that I pulled out some old letters from my W. (I know, I know)

She thinks things have turned a corner, but what does that mean to her? Because on my end nothing has changed. Still no outward signs of affection, no kisses, no hugs, she doesn't even really touch me at all.

I get the analogy of waiting for someone to finish a project. But on the other hand, I know that the squeaky wheel sometimes gets the grease. I know I've hurried projects or things along at work just to get someone to stop asking me about it. LOL.

Thankfully she was too preoccupied by thinking about her day tomorrow to really notice that I was in a state.

However, I was bugged about something and I brought it up to her. Maybe I shouldn't have. I don't know what the rules are, but I wanted to bring it up so it wouldn't stew causing me to get more angry. It really helped to bring it up though.

I always knew I loved my wife deeply. I guess I never realized how deep until I almost lost it.

Thanks for letting me vent!!!

[FindingMyVoice]

She thinks things have turned a corner, but what does that mean to her? Because on my end nothing has changed.

Have you asked her? Maybe there's progress you're making that you don't realize. I think the physical connection is last.

I get the analogy of waiting for someone to finish a project. But on the other hand, I know that the squeaky wheel sometimes gets the grease.

Try not to hurry! You'll get more out of it if it's slow and steady. In the meantime, do more of what you say below...

However, I was bugged about something and I brought it up to her. Maybe I shouldn't have. I don't know what the rules are, but I wanted to bring it up so it wouldn't stew causing me to get more angry. It really helped to bring it up though.

This is awesome!! If you feel it helped, then it was the right thing to do. Don't worry about rules. Just continue being open, honest and respectful with your thoughts and feelings, both with yourself and her. I used to think that bringing up things that bugged me in my M would cause distance. It doesn't; quite the opposite - bringing stuff like this up and working through it together brings us closer. I think if you keep working on interactions like this the physical stuff will follow. Hang in there! You're doing great!

[XYZ]

I think the physical connection is last.

Hey, FMV - Would you mind elaborating on this comment. Several of us are in that spot right now and any insight you have would be helpful. Thanks.

[Bolt]

here's where my W comes from regarding that.
She looks at the physical part especially sex as a very emotional thing. It's not too physical for her (until we are actually doing the physical part - she doesn't have a NEED for it).

If she's not there 100% emotionally, she ain't going to want to engage in it. Also, she knows it's important for you and does want to give it to you but also doesn't want to give false hope - that sounds harsh but I think that is what's going on in their mind.

They like where we've changed and want to make the sitch work. It's just not as easy to erase years of emotional disconnection.

does that help?

[FindingMyVoice]

Hey, FMV - Would you mind elaborating on this comment. Several of us are in that spot right now and any insight you have would be helpful. Thanks.

Hey XYZ. My IC described it to me like this - physical connection, ML etc, is the most intimate form of communication. So all the other forms - emotional, verbal, mental etc - they need to happen first. They're the foundation for the physical. And not just a month or two's worth!! Give it time. It might take 6 months. It might take a year. I think it depends on what you've been through and what kind of support system you both have for healing. But let me tell you. Hoo boy. It's worth the wait.

[FindingMyVoice]

I need to figure out why in this area I am impatient - you hit on it I'm selfish. FMV hit on it too. Fear. I swear I'm not impatient in most areas of my life.

It's completely understandable that you're not as patient in those other areas. They're not as important to you as this one. Maybe you're impatient with this process because your W's love validates for you that you're worthy of being loved. So when there is a threat that it will be taken away, you get fear that you're not worthy of it. Who wouldn't be impatient for that to return?

However, as with most things, you have to find some validation from inside yourself... other people can provide some for you, but it it's not there within yourself first, it's impossible for them to provide it all, and impossible for you to receive even if they do provide some.

(sorry.. getting girlie again. I'll stop now!)

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Warts and all right?

I remember reading that you were different than many of the other guys here, and I took your word for that. But with your very honest post in XYZ's thread, you are different, but your not.

All the crap behavior the other guys including myself we built up over time. You had the condensed concentrated and fast acting version.

She said that I need to back of and we both need to work on ourselves now, then maybe we can address the marriage part in a few months

If your impatience is getting the better of you she is right Harrier. She is going to know if your faking this...any of it. And if your faking any of the changes she wants? You doing both you and her a disservice, cause its just a trick.

Epicurus (google him pretty smart guy) suggested that self-restraint paves the way for long-term pleasure. He also discarded transitory stimulation in favor of enduring satiation.

I see patience and self restraint going hand in hand. Just as self restraint and self control, and since we can only truly control ourself? What does that say about us if we cannot even do that?

That only helps if you can see them as similar.

A little bit more modern, I'll just take something right out of DR. "Patience is more than a virtue; it's a neccesity."


You want a more visual aid?

Get and set a mousetrap complete with cheese.
Without using any tool but your fingers, get the cheese off.
Try doing that without patience and you'll feel the results.

You could argue that if your fast enough you'll be fine
So go ahead and try it. : ) Your theory IS sound, but the pratical application of it...I'll bet money on you being in finger splints.


For me?
Was all the hard work I put in worth putting at risk because I was needy? And that's what it is needy. Are you a needy codependant guy? I sure as hell might have been but I sure as hell didn't want her to see that either, not did I want to be.

Week to week, day to day, hour to hour, at worst? Minute to minute. Being patient is like quitting smoking, it is a pain in the buttocks. Both however are good for you.

As for not being in piecing?

You are still in the same house, and Harrier, she is going to watching you...you might not get to talk about your wants, but as she said give it a few months, and if she believes in you, you likely will again.

[Sad_but_happy]

JTB, that's the most helpful post I've seen. I need more patience too. I've started to push her to say I Love You. I've tried to push her for more affection. My changes have been constant except for the slight pushing. There has been no backslide yet as W is still responding to everything well.

Harrier, keep up the good work! I have no doubt that you will celebrate your 50th anniversary with your W. Our sitches are so similar. We just need to keep going.

I'll tell you that after she told me to stop pressuring her for more I listened. And this morning she said I Love You first... And without pressure from ne!

This DB stuff works!

[Harrier]

Jack I was a little confused by your post, but I wanted to address a few things.

1. My biggest change is that I'm changing back to the way I used to be, +

2. To do No. 1, requires me to un-do and deal a lot of issues that cropped in the last year.

3. I have made real headway (i.e. real changes) on many of those issues. I think she knows they are real.

4. More that just being patient I would like to explore the cause of my impatience, whether it's fear , anger or something else.

5. I was really thinking about No. 4. In alot of areas I am patient - some are low emotional cost like waiting for a movie to come out or waiting for vacation to start. Some are bigger like the kids example from yesterday.

let me expand on that. My wife and I were married about 8 years before we had kids. Now I was ready for kids after probably 2-3 years. My wife knew I was ready, I knew she wasn't. Yet, I didn't pressure her, didn't make snide comments, didn't make accusation of her being selfish. I just let her go on her time table. I was very patient. Why? I wanted her to want kids like I did. I didn't want her to just "go along" because then there's be a chance she'd always resent me for pushing her in big decision. I wanted her to feel like she'd come to it on her own. Because if she owned it, It would be stronger. I've seen too many guys who's wives pressured them into having kids too soon and may times they guys aren't as involved.
Now if something happened and she did get pregnant after 2-3 years of marriage, I don't think she'd loved the kids less (I mean they are our kids after all) But she often says to me, "I'm glad we had kids when we did." My response is always "so am I."

I can see that has to work here. My mantra has to be "She not ready." That was my approach to kids.

Anywho, she worked late last night as she usually does. She stopped and got me some coffee before she came home. I was ready a bedtime story to our oldest son. When she peeked in room, our eyes met for a brief second. She gave me this big smile and I felt a connection there..

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Harrier,

No. 1
Awesome.

No. 4
I agree I think it is important to figure out why of a problem/failing as long as the why doesn't become and excuse to engage it. Not suggesting you would do that.

The intent of my post, was to suggest several things.

You wife wants to move slowly.
When you don't, or don't move as slowly as she wants, It places your wants above hers. Shows her who is more important.

I think you got the patience is a self control message.


For me, I wanted things better NOW. Because I was afraid. I didn't want to be wrong again about:
Trusting her, being tricked with OM again, investing my time and effort.
I wanted time to prove that I didn't fail and I wasn't wrong and I wanted that validation now, like yesterday.

That's how I felt.