I agreed to go to a Salsa dance convention in Chicago with my W this weekend. The last time I went to one was in 2006. I was reluctant to go, as Salsa is a lively dance where musicality is emphasized over technique. Musicality and using my body with the music is an area I need to grow into.
The first night and day of the trip went well--dinner at an Italian restaurant, a full day of workshops. I bought a new pair of Latin shoes, which is an upgrade from what I have. I stayed up until 2AM listening to a very popular Salsa band from Columbia.
The trip began to unravel the next day, our travel day home. At her request, I bought my W breakfast at Mcdonald's. I'm used to her sleeping in till noon. She wanted me to wake her up for it. I made the mistake of letting her sleep in. She was also upset that I wasn't packed. I didn't want to make noise while she slept. She also was upset that we drove most of the trip home in the dark, when she's not able to read.
She was quite unpleasant on the way home--picking at everything that went wrong and making comments again about how she's envious of other spouses who make more money. She called her mother on the phone and was complaining to her. I lost my temper at that point. It was a long trip home.
I'm disappointed that the trip ended the way it did. I don't understand what happened. Is this really over an egg McMuffin? When my W speaks, I hear blaming and how I've failed her.
I will listen to what she has to say today, and will try to put more emphasis on listening than defending myself. I will not hide from her today, but be willing to process the weekend's events with her. I will privately and in conversation accept how I contributed to the miscommunication, and not insist that she do so likewise.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I will listen to what she has to say today, and will try to put more emphasis on listening than defending myself. I will not hide from her today, but be willing to process the weekend's events with her. I will privately and in conversation accept how I contributed to the miscommunication, and not insist that she do so likewise.
CL
CL,
Where is "expressing your needs" in all of that?
Your wife overreacted to your good intentions. I think you'd have more success if you learned how to draw stronger boundaries with her, rather than walking on eggs all of the time around her.
Remember the "boundaries" half of the "loving boundaries" we used to talk about, and in trying to better balance it between the two?
I will not hide from her today, but be willing to process the weekend's events with her.
GOOD! That is a step forward.
Have you ever bit back? I'm just wondering, not necessarily advocating, but what would happen, if you turned to her and said, "I did my best, next time get your own dam egg McMuffin, and quite your bitching while your at it!"
I say this because at times it seems like your wife is screaming for a man to step up and meet her challenges. Like she needs a man who can put her in her place a little. Might sound crazy but I really wonder if you got neanderthal on her, would she not be purring like a kitten 15 minutes later. It might even take her a day to process what just happened because of the shock but when the dust settled, might she say, THAT is the man I have been waiting for?
Having read your situation for a few years now, it seems your wife picks because she can. She wants a reaction but never gets it and a pattern has developed where she pushes you around. I wonder if she would prefer NOT to be able to push you around but there is now such a deep pattern that only something drastic can break it.
There is an anecdote in the Divorce Busting book about the guy who finally put his foot down and hard. His wife fell in line fast. Food for thought anyway. As always keep up the good work.
Me 44 She 46 S13 D9 M18 T23 3 years DB'ing Successfully busted
Starsky, Thinking in terms of setting boundaries with my W can be overwhelming. I would be reacting to every act of poor behavior she does. I don't want to enter "her world" because she's not in a good place at this time, but is trying to climb out of it.
Boundaries are important, but I want my mindset to go beyond that. I don't want to police every annoying word or phrase or mood. I don't want to put my energy there.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
DNO, My W continued her venting into the next day, our cooking day together. I hung in there with her and allowed her to vent. I worked at not defending myself, and disagreed with her when she accused me of lying or being passive-aggressive. She held tight onto her viewpoints. I xplained my behavior and reactions to her telling her how I was feeling at the time. She didn't acknowledge my viewpoints, but it felt right to handle a difficult conversation in a nonreactive manner, that didn't add further injury.
She finally disclosed that her feelings were hurt that people were being indifferent to her at the dance convention. She had hopes of connecting to people. In my opinion, these people didn't treat us any different than they do in our hometown. It took her a day to disclose this to me. I didn't know. She never gave me a chance to help her with this until a day later. She was looking for kindness from me, but instead saw me as another person rejecting her and disappointing her.
There was a time during the day, when the venting was repeating itself. I excused myself, and took the dog for a walk.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Starsky, Thinking in terms of setting boundaries with my W can be overwhelming. I would be reacting to every act of poor behavior she does. I don't want to enter "her world" because she's not in a good place at this time, but is trying to climb out of it.
Boundaries are important, but I want my mindset to go beyond that. I don't want to police every annoying word or phrase or mood. I don't want to put my energy there.
CL
Suit yourself, CL. But I'd recommend that you consider two things:
1. It's not working your way -- her boorish behavior continues; and
2. With effective boundary-setting (and -enforcement), you don't HAVE to do it all of the time. The enforcement corrects the behavior (sometimes doesn't end it COMPLETELY, but probably 90% of it).
Are walking on these egg shells constantly any way to go thru a marriage . . . or a life?
You don't need to "go Neanderthal," but a simple-but-firm "You know, I was trying to be kind, to let you sleep in. I really don't appreciate you biting my head off. Next time, maybe you can just get your own Egg McMuffin. I'm going to go grab a shower, and then we'll get going."
Or something similar.
Women want a man that can call them on their b.s. sometimes. It's healthy for BOTH sexes to do that for each other from time to time. By constantly appeasing her and supplicating, you are KILLING her attraction to you, in my opinion.
There was a time during the day, when the venting was repeating itself. I excused myself, and took the dog for a walk.
This is good. Do you tell her WHY when you do this? Make sure you do. Say something like "I'm sorry, but I don't need to be b*tched at. If you're going to talk to me so disrespectfully, I'm just going to take the dog for a walk." And then do so.
She finally disclosed that her feelings were hurt that people were being indifferent to her at the dance convention. She had hopes of connecting to people. ...
It took her a day to disclose this to me. I didn't know. She never gave me a chance to help her with this until a day later. She was looking for kindness from me, but instead saw me as another person rejecting her and disappointing her.
Hi CL, it's been a while since I posted on your thread but I've been reading along and cheering on your progress.
I just had a thought about this I wanted to share with you. It's possible that it took her so long to disclose that to you because she didn't even know that there was something underneath her anger and venting. I used to do that a lot. First came the anger, and only then could I understand and feel the pain that beneath it.
So I think it's a definite good sign that she did finally reveal her true fears and insecurities about the dance convention to you, even if it was a day late. That's how my process went too. It took me a while before I could identify the hurt and distorted self-beliefs that were underlying my anger. Sometimes it took a day or two. But the important thing is, is that she's seeing and sharing what was underneath it.
How did she end up feeling after she finally revealed her hurts to you? Hopefully, she found it to be a positive experience and relieved some of her fear and pain. If so, I bet that 'delay' will grow shorter and shorter as she continues to open up.
Good for you for excusing yourself and taking the dog for a walk! FMV.
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
Sometimes it took a day or two. But the important thing is, is that she's seeing and sharing what was underneath it.
How did she end up feeling after she finally revealed her hurts to you? Hopefully, she found it to be a positive experience and relieved some of her fear and pain. If so, I bet that 'delay' will grow shorter and shorter as she continues to open up.
FMV, I think she felt better. I shared with her my impressions from what I observed going on with people there. I think it helped her to see that people were behaving certain ways in general, and that there was more going on than she realized.
We went to a dance class on Monday night. Last night she didn't want to go to her Pilates class. We usually practice dancing afterwards, so I stayed home and made a practice date with her, that went well. We practiced for 45 minutes, longer than our usual 1/2 hour.
I failed to mention that on Sunday when she was venting, she threatened to stop dancing with me and go her separate way again socially. I told her that was not acceptable, and that I would not want to be married any further if she took that course again.
As Starsky suggests, it is important to be mindful of my needs, and to not become invisible or overly accommodating. I am doing that by making sure we attend the studio, dance classes and ballroom events that I want. On the other hand, I think trying to control her picking and bad moods will be futile and missing the emotional elements of what's happening. I'm going to stay with the Hold Me Tight approach for healing injuries for now. DNO thinks that my W is looking for me to rise to the challenge of staying with her. I think staying with her emotional storms in a calm, listening yet sharing manner is a way of rising to the challenge. We'll stay the course and see.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
DNO thinks that my W is looking for me to rise to the challenge of staying with her. I think staying with her emotional storms in a calm, listening yet sharing manner is a way of rising to the challenge. We'll stay the course and see.
CL
CL,
Are you sure you don't just believe that because it's easier for you to do?
At best, you're mindreading her here. At worst, you're shying from the tougher challenge.
FMV.