As a victim of sexual abuse, there are certain situations that I do not put myself into. For my own protection. For my own sanity. Healed or not, it is still a part of what shaped me into who I am. I didn't watch Last House on the Left. I knew the rape scene would be too much for me. It's healed, but a scar is still there and if you bump it too hard, there is a shooting pain. At the same time, I can stand in front of a room full of men and women, talking about my life with no problems at all. If it helps someone else heal, then it makes it all worth it.
Does that make sense?
I'm certainly not willing to live through it again.
Mach,
For the last 18 months I have taken everything he said, listened to what I thought was valid and tried to change it. Even before I knew about DB.
At this point, if he starts in on nasty, I have to, for myself, tell him he can't talk to me like and at least leave the room.
I have cracked the door on the Nucking Futhouse. A padded cell is starting to look pleasant.
For the last 18 months I have taken everything he said, listened to what I thought was valid and tried to change it. Even before I knew about DB.
How did you try...?
Not to be facetious here...
Did you change for you ?
Or to please him ?
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At this point, if he starts in on nasty, I have to, for myself, tell him he can't talk to me like and at least leave the room.
There is nothing wrong with boundaries....
They are essential to protect ourselves...
Think about what you say and how you say it.
You TELL him he can't ?
Schidt, that's a challenge to an MLCer.
OR do you say , I will no longer tolerate that ...
There is a difference there.
The part about boundaries that you have to be ready for, is to enforce them, or else they become an empty threat....
Kinda like Scotland Yard, used to not carry guns...Stop or I will yell Stop again !!!
Maybe....
I have decided to not engage in these discussions anymore. Whenever they occur, I will walk away from you, hang up on you, and be unavailable to you until I can be addressed reasonably.
That makes sense about the wording. I'll remember to say it like that.
I changed to please him...duh!
His list of complaints were that the house wasn't clean enough. He was right and that's bc I was a spoiled brat on that one. We've had a housekeeper that came weekly for about 10 years. After H bought the vette, I had to let her go. Part of it was rebellion on my part, part of it was that I would forget. He likes the house to be so clean that it looks like no one lives here. But he was right, it wasn't clean enough and I fixed it.
He said that I undermined him with the kids. This one really shocked me bc I honestly did not know what he was talking about. He was so adamant about it, that I really started paying attention to the ebb and flow of his interactions with the kids. Pretty much any time he said no about something, he would always turn around and say, Rae, what are your thoughts? I would give my honest thoughts about him saying no. Which, most times, contradicted what his wishes were. When I realized what he needed from me, I changed it. Now, if there is something I really disagree with, I discuss it in private bc he can be very rigid. He has a really hard time letting the girls go. Our oldest will be 17 in a few months and he won't let her be in a car by herself with a boy even though she doesn't have a boyfriend. All of the boys she hangs out with are friends. I think he might be a little scared of karma! (:
He doesn't like that we have cats. That's not something I am willing to change and he knows it. I was a vet tech before the war and he knew that going in. My house never smells, I vacuum daily (before and after maid) and they are pretty well behaved. This wasn't an issue before and he knows it. My D16 even offered to get rid of her "baby" to make him happy, which made him feel like garbage. Actually, I felt bad for both of them. I think his biggest issue with the animals is his dad's dog. FIL brought him here when he was sick and he's stayed once he passed. He's a yorkie and is not potty trained at all. H's dad just let him go wherever. I spend too much time on my hands and knees cleaning up after that dog. He can't and won't focus on that dog, so IMO he focuses on the cats.
He doesn't think I am organized enough. I'm really not sure how to change this one. WE aren't allowed to throw things away. I file paperwork. I keep the house clean. We have excellent credit. I'm stumped on that one.
He didn't like that I was a night owl. So, I tried switching to his schedule. I hated it and went back to what suits me. I get more accomplished and feel better.
The personal things about me that he has a problem with...
That I get involved. Long story, but to shorten it the best I can, I stood up against some wrong doing that involved a local non-profit. There was money misappropriated and many other things. I publicly spoke out about it and he thought I shouldn't have after the fact. He was actually in on all statements that I made to the public.
That I am too feisty. One minute that's adorable, the next it p!sses him off. I'm not even sure what that means any more. His definition changes day to day.
That I am not hard enough on the kids. This really applies to the girls only. I should throw the book at them for every infraction. S12 can do no wrong.
That I don't get involved with the kid's drama. I should step in, make it stop instead of letting them work it out and figure it out for themselves. I'm not talking about drama between our kids, but normal teenage girl craziness with other girls.
I am too accepting of people. Ummm, ok.
Oh yes, and that I pulled D16 from school to homeschool her. She was being bullied and I was beginning to seriously worry about her. He thought she should have pulled up her boot straps and dealt with it. I was worried she was going to harm herself. I begged him to please let's all sit down and talk about it. He wouldn't and let it go so long, I just made a decision. I didn't know what else to do.
I'm sure I forgot something. If I remember, I'll post it.
MsRae, I know I posted search terms before for a problem you and your daughter share, but that's only one piece of the puzzle.
Sweetie, what I posted is the key to the door to my path to wellness.
You've read my story to a point. We share much in common. Have a look it may be your key too.
BITS Me-51, WAS-52 Kids 2 M-26yrs, H.left 2009, 2 more Bomb drops, Reconnection spring 2013 Change is inevitable, personal growth is a choice. Love is a action and choice you make, every day.
Honey, if you try to fix every little thing about yourself and what you do that he complains about; it will NEVER be enough for him.
You will feed the beast until you draw the line or have a nervous breakdown; because of all the stress you ALLOW him to put on you.
Don't take what he says personally; roll it right off your back; JUST because he says it; does NOT make it gospel truth.
The world was NOT designed to evolve around him; you have place in it, too. And, it's time you claimed your place, because YOU matter, too.
You really do need to draw back from him; make changes as it suits YOU..the changes you make; the wounds you heal, and the lessons you learn are for YOU; not your husband. He has to learn his OWN lessons, heal his own wounds, and change himself, within HIS OWN journey.
His comments are designed to keep you spinning within his criticisms; and no matter what you do; it will NEVER be enough..there will always be; ONE MORE THING.
It's a cycle of a type, designed to keep his focus on YOU; so he doesn't have to focus on himself.
Something has to give; the cycle has to break, and change has to start with YOU.
If you keep taking his remarks seriously; you will have a nervous breakdown; and nothing will get done within you; because your focus is still on HIM; and what HE thinks.
What do YOU think; and what do YOU want?
My advice would be to get off his rollercoaster, detach from him completely, and only look at the remarks that sting you; and see where the grains of truth lie within those.
But make changes for YOU; NOT him.
I've gone through this; and I had to learn that just because he said it, didn't mean it was gospel truth.
He could complain all he wanted; but I couldn't keep up with all his complaints; and like you; I spun myself around and around; trying to please him..and it wasn't happening.
There was ALWAYS one more thing to address; and the list became endless; I could do NOTHING right in his eyes; and it nearly drove me crazy before I understood that what he thought and complained really wasn't THAT important.
He was using me as an excuse to NOT look at or within himself.
When this understanding dawned on me, I got OFF the rollercoaster;beginning the breaking of this type of cycle, and I began to also understand that change had to begin within ME; and these changes would affect him.
I found that I did not need to change for him, I needed to change for ME...it was ME that I could control, NOT him...and I had to become someone I could live with; didn't matter if HE could live with me...his choice; accept me for what I became or leave.
I had to go ALL the way back to childhood; and start sorting through; to understand WHY I related, and acted the way I did..through greater understanding of the problems I brought from childhood, I began to grow within myself and began to know myself in an honest way.
The Lord showed me, upon my asking, the deeper areas that I needed to work on...and it was hard at first; because I didn't want to see the weakness that was within me.
I had trouble saying "no"; I was a people pleaser; and I wanted everyone to like me; and couldn't understand why they didn't.
The only stand I made with consistency was within my walk with the Lord...but even that wasn't enough; I had to change in other areas, too.
Through the inward journey, I saw many areas within myself that needed growth, change, the old wounds that had to be ripped open; understood, and healed.
What came forward was a totally different woman; one who was confident; and didn't base her self esteem on what her husband had to say. She no longer defined herself by what others said and thought; she became her own woman; independent in her own right.
My husband did NOT like the "new" me at first..and I found that was OK; he could either adjust, changing in response to my changes, or walk away.
I found that not everything was worth answering; and I let many things pass..it just wasn't worth all that to fight over what he thought...and it confused him when I started NOT answering him.
The quieter I stayed, the more worried he got; and the more he had to think about and face himself.
He adjusted and changed, this took time; and few battles, because he tried to pressure me back into what he'd known; the "old" was easier to deal than the new.
But the growth and change was well worth the battle; I was NOT going back to the "old" me. I also found that he would treat me as I allowed him to; and I don't know how many times I took the walk out of the room; when he started yelling or was totally disrespect...this was boundary; and I enforced it; never backing down.
Eventually; his disrespectful behavior and snide comments came to a halt.
In time, he chose to stay with me; but I'd known it could have easily gone the other way, too; and by that time I was well on my journey and feeling better within myself; I knew I would be all right, no matter what happened going forward.
My point is, change begins with YOU; and all else will fall into place in a different way, as you change and grow...the way is hard; I won't kid you; because as you change; you force, not only your husband, but other people you deal with to change the way they relate to you...or they can choose to walk away.
I lost MANY people that I'd thought were my friends through the growth and changes I made within.
But, it turned out; my "friends" weren't such a loss after all...once I realized that I was being "used" by these people; once I set boundaries to protect me; they didn't want to deal with me, anymore.
I was called selfish and worse; because I had truly learned to care for and take care of ME in a completely new way.
I don't have a problem with letting people be who they are; they can take me or leave me.
I was unable to get to looking hard within myself; UNTIL I got my focus OFF my husband; and put it on ME and our son.
I could do nothing for him; but everything for me.
I stopped doing things for him; forcing him to get it done, if he wanted it done; down to the point of doing his own laundry.
He was NOT my child; and I'd already had son who was 15; doing HIS own laundry, and learning to cook and clean for himself.
I may be on the mark or I may be way off the mark; but take it in the spirit it's offered in.
These things are just food for thought; take what you need and leave the rest.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
As a victim of sexual abuse, there are certain situations that I do not put myself into.
Rae,
When you suffer something like this, it is wise to avoid situations that could be dangerous.
I don’t like your wording here though. You were a victim. Yes I agree.
Are you still a victim…
Or…
Are you a survivor?
There is a difference you know.
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Maybe....
I have decided to not engage in these discussions anymore. Whenever they occur, I will walk away from you, hang up on you, and be unavailable to you until I can be addressed reasonably.
Then FOLLOW UP with that...
If you can’t say it, then simply say Stop and then walk away.
After enough times, he will get the picture.
Originally Posted By: Rae
I changed to please him...duh!
How did that work out for you?
Originally Posted By: Rae
the house wasn't clean enough. He was right and that's bc I was a spoiled brat on that one. We've had a housekeeper that came weekly for about 10 years. After H bought the vette, I had to let her go. Part of it was rebellion on my part, part of it was that I would forget. He likes the house to be so clean that it looks like no one lives here. But he was right, it wasn't clean enough and I fixed it.
So this shouldn’t sting anymore, but you still resent it a bit, right?
Originally Posted By: Rae
undermined him with the kids. This one really shocked me bc I honestly did not know what he was talking about. He was so adamant about it, that I really started paying attention to the ebb and flow of his interactions with the kids. Pretty much any time he said no about something, he would always turn around and say, Rae, what are your thoughts? I would give my honest thoughts about him saying no. Which, most times, contradicted what his wishes were. When I realized what he needed from me, I changed it. Now, if there is something I really disagree with, I discuss it in private bc he can be very rigid. He has a really hard time letting the girls go. Our oldest will be 17 in a few months and he won't let her be in a car by herself with a boy even though she doesn't have a boyfriend. All of the boys she hangs out with are friends. I think he might be a little scared of karma! (:
So another one that turned out to be a bit true…
What do you do when you can’t agree now? Why are you so lenient with the kids?
Did you really learn what he needed, which was your support, or did you just wait until you were in private to disagree with him?
I know we have to trust our children. However there is nothing wrong with setting limitations until they earn a bit more. Until they show a maturity level that proves they can handle situations.
Rae, you protected your D. From the abuse and from herself and I am not saying you made the wrong decisions, but you think him trying to protect her from teenage boys, is over protection…
Why are you choices better than his?
Are they really?
Originally Posted By: MsRae
He doesn't like that we have cats. That's not something I am willing to change and he knows it.
So he focuses on the cats instead of the dogs? Something smells a little fishy here.
Do you have some resentment over the dog?
It should be pretty obvious to anyone who reads one of my posts that I absolutely love cats. Love them. H dealt with them, even when we had 20 at one time.
BF, nope. Hates cats. So what to do? Is a cat, really really worth a relationship with another person?
Not so sure that it is.
Is this really the deal breaker Rae? Or just some fuel for YOUR fire?
I know that I can always go volunteer somewhere, visit someone, and get my cat fix…
Originally Posted By: MsRae
He doesn't think I am organized enough. I'm really not sure how to change this one. WE aren't allowed to throw things away. I file paperwork. I keep the house clean. We have excellent credit. I'm stumped on that one.
Don’t do anything then.
Originally Posted By: MsRae
night owl. So, I tried switching to his schedule. I hated it and went back to what suits me. I get more accomplished and feel better.
Did you really hate it, or did you hate that it wasn’t making a difference?
Why are you a night owl?
Originally Posted By: Rae
That I get involved… That I am too feisty. ..That I am not hard enough on the kids… That I don't get involved with the kid's drama...I am too accepting of people. Ummm, ok.
Rae, you hit on the superficial stuff. You changed the superficial stuff that you felt like changing.
For HIM.
The deeper stuff, doesn’t sound like you have done much about.
And to be honest, you have explain away each and every one of his complaints. Why they are stupid, unfair, unreasonable, and why you couldn’t make the changes stick.
I see you putting a ton of the blame back on him, his inability to work on the R in any way.
In MLC, guess what?
They aren’t going to work on it.
You can’t change for them, you have to do it for you…
Or it won’t work (as you see), the changes won’t stick, and YOU won’t be happy with them or yourself…
Rae, this is NOT about him. This is about you and getting you to a place where you realize it isn’t about him.
Getting you to a place where you are comfortable in your own skin, with who YOU are.
This is where we dig.
Uncover the layers and layers of shiat and find the core of the things that cause us pain and hurt.
So that we can be whole and healthy and happy.
So that we can learn the difference between trying to change something about us that is part of our core (which would be a sacrifice) and being able to compromise with another person for the greater good (the relationship).
You could find someone that is more suited to you. You could, and be happy for a while, but similar issues will arise, until you know the difference.
I know you said you have done the digging, but your life and your words, indicate that there is more.
Because YOUR life, your happiness, your comfort with your choices, still seem to be dictated by him.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Thank you for everything you had to say. I know that everything said here is said in the spirit of love and wanting to help others. I so appreciate your time.
When you suffer something like this, it is wise to avoid situations that could be dangerous.
I don’t like your wording here though. You were a victim. Yes I agree.
Are you still a victim…
Or…
Are you a survivor?
There is a difference you know.
What is glaring to me is that I need to work on the verbal abuse I went through as a kid.
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How did that work out for you?
It didn't, that's why I came here.
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So this shouldn’t sting anymore, but you still resent it a bit, right?
You're damn straight I do. My h can't be bothered to lift the lid on his laundry basket. I do it everyday. He has sat in a lawn chair and watched me cut the grass. If I didn't take out the trash it would sit there for months until I take it out. He doesn't take his plate to the sink. It's getting old, real quick. In fact, it's starting to p!ss me off.
Quote:
So another one that turned out to be a bit true…
What do you do when you can’t agree now? Why are you so lenient with the kids?
Did you really learn what he needed, which was your support, or did you just wait until you were in private to disagree with him?
I know we have to trust our children. However there is nothing wrong with setting limitations until they earn a bit more. Until they show a maturity level that proves they can handle situations.
Rae, you protected your D. From the abuse and from herself and I am not saying you made the wrong decisions, but you think him trying to protect her from teenage boys, is over protection…
Why are you choices better than his?
Are they really?
I'm a pretty strict mom, actually. They would fall over to hear me called lenient.
He never lets D16 leave the house. D16 has zero freedom right now. For the time being, I support whatever he says, which is ALWAYS no. If she hate his guts, that's his problem. I am done trying to mediate between them.
It's lenient to think it's ok for an almost 17 year old to go to McDonald's with her friends? All girls? What gave you the idea that I want any of my girls to date period?
D15 was allowed to go to the movies with her female friend who is 18 and is staying the night with her.
Isn't it interesting though that the other kids can usually do things within reason? It's only her that he argues with. Only her that he criticizes. I'm noticing that I only undermine him when it comes to her.
D16 and D15 have never smoked, never drank alcohol, never had sex. Why the difference?
She's convinced that he hates her bc of the time lost with his dad. I'm running out of words to defend him.
I had girls night at a friends house and I received a text from her saying...
mom, I know that dad has had a hard time losing his dad, but he is so mean that I am starting to hate him. Really hate him. I'm done.
I am no longer willing to pay for his parents sins.
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So he focuses on the cats instead of the dogs? Something smells a little fishy here.
Do you have some resentment over the dog?
It should be pretty obvious to anyone who reads one of my posts that I absolutely love cats. Love them. H dealt with them, even when we had 20 at one time.
BF, nope. Hates cats. So what to do? Is a cat, really really worth a relationship with another person?
Not so sure that it is.
Is this really the deal breaker Rae? Or just some fuel for YOUR fire?
I know that I can always go volunteer somewhere, visit someone, and get my cat fix…
Smells fishy? No, it's dog pee. Resentful, no I love it. (sarcasm)
Before I met my H, I broke off a relationship with a man I loved bc he wanted me to leave my dog behind when I moved across the country to be with him. She was abandoned at my clinic, we'd had to amputate her leg due to a compound fracture and I had rehabilitated her and taught her how to walk again myself. I had made a commitment to her and he could respect that or not. It was my choice and I still don't regret it. If someone had allergies, that's a different story.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't have gone past the first date with someone who hates animals. That's just me.
I have already had two of my animals euthanized in the last 12 months bc of him. He always loved these pets before MLC and IF he comes out of it and wants to discuss his "pet reduction plan" then fine. For the time being, he knows where the door is.
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Did you really hate it, or did you hate that it wasn’t making a difference?
Why are you a night owl?
Always have been and yes, I really hated it.
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Rae, this is NOT about him. This is about you and getting you to a place where you realize it isn’t about him.
Getting you to a place where you are comfortable in your own skin, with who YOU are.
Herein lies the problem...
I am really comfortable in my own skin. I really like who I have become. I would be friends with me. Not the person I was in 2010, but the person before her, yes. That's where I'm back to now. I am really disappointed in myself that I let myself try to please him to the extent that I did. I know better. It was the expectations that got me. My pride kicked in on New Years and I was ready to walk. I'm starting to feel like the old me again.
When this started 18 months ago, I was utterly blindsided. I did not see this coming for all the money in the world. I just wanted to know what was wrong so the we could fix them.
His list of complaints didn't come out until October of last year, maybe. But they were building.
Like I said, he was right about the kids. At first it felt like a game that he was playing, but I saw what he meant. Then I realized it's really only when he argues about D16 and sometimes D14 our adopted daughter. He wants to threaten her with kicking her out, but I haven't let him.
I have reached a decision in the last few days.
I will hang on until I can't hang on any longer. The thread is getting thinner and thinner.
Today was a good day. We spent the day doing something he loved and it was nice. Then I left to hang out with friends. He called to complain about D16 asking for shoes. That's when she starting texting me.
I've never loved anyone the way that I love him. We have shared 16 amazing years together. The last two have scuked @ss. If he has to go I will miss him for a very long time, he!! I miss him and my old M right now.
I have this saying I tell my kids all the time. I love you enough to say no. It's easier to let you do whatever you want than argue about why it's not good for you BUT I will love you enough to say no.
I love him, but I love me too. I love me enough to tell him no.
You have some anger. Which is completly normal and understandable considering...
When I was 21, I decided to start counseling because I thought I needed it.
I had one session. I didn't go back because I didn't like what the woman had asked me after listening to me talk for a while.
She asked me if H (at the time boyfriend) hit me.
He hadn't at that point. I could not understand what I had said that made her think I was being abused. I had never been hit by anyone (save twice by my parents) in my whole life.
When I received the final bomb in 08, I had anger that spilled out into every part of my life. I started looking at myself, my interactions with H, my life. I realized then that he had verbally abused me throught out our entire relationship.
He had done it and I hadn't really even recognized it. At first I was angry at him. As I really examined it though, it's progression in the R, I realized that I had allowed that. And I got angrier. I finally realized that most of the anger I was feeling, wasn't directed at him but at myself. For being so weak. For allowing myself to be treated that way.
And I remembered things that as the years went on, I had said to him. There had come a point, before the bombs, when his words hurt me so much, his criticism hurt me so deeply, that I actually begged him to stop talking and just beat me.
That is how deeply the verbal abuse damaged me. I would have preferred physical blows to words.
Pretty pathetic huh?
That was when the digging started for me in earnest. I took on the attitude that you have now. I will do this, until I can't.
Honestly, I had to fix myself, really fix myself, before I could worry about anything else.
Once I did that, it was much easier to look at the real problems in the R, and him, and make choices and decisions that were the right ones for me.
To lay boundaries, even some just within my own mind, about what I would like for me. My life. That was key in me deciding what I was going to do moving forward.
Originally Posted By: Rae
I'm a pretty strict mom, actually. They would fall over to hear me called lenient.
He never lets D16 leave the house. D16 has zero freedom right now. For the time being, I support whatever he says, which is ALWAYS no. If she hate his guts, that's his problem. I am done trying to mediate between them.
It's lenient to think it's ok for an almost 17 year old to go to McDonald's with her friends? All girls? What gave you the idea that I want any of my girls to date period?
D15 was allowed to go to the movies with her female friend who is 18 and is staying the night with her.
Isn't it interesting though that the other kids can usually do things within reason? It's only her that he argues with. Only her that he criticizes. I'm noticing that I only undermine him when it comes to her.
D16 and D15 have never smoked, never drank alcohol, never had sex. Why the difference?
She's convinced that he hates her bc of the time lost with his dad. I'm running out of words to defend him.
I had girls night at a friends house and I received a text from her saying...
mom, I know that dad has had a hard time losing his dad, but he is so mean that I am starting to hate him. Really hate him. I'm done.
I am no longer willing to pay for his parents sins.
Really?
You have spent 16 years, TELLING him he needed to protect your D.
But you don't like how he is doing it. Call him mean and strict.
Their R, really is between them. You need to let them work it out for themselves.
Originally Posted By: Rae
We'll have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't have gone past the first date with someone who hates animals. That's just me.
I didn't say BF hated animals.
He loves animals. Has even told me I can have a horse (which I have always wanted).
Just doesn't like cats, my animal of choice, for some reason...
Except one
Originally Posted By: Rae
When this started 18 months ago, I was utterly blindsided. I did not see this coming for all the money in the world. I just wanted to know what was wrong so the we could fix them.
His list of complaints didn't come out until October of last year, maybe. But they were building.
This is all normal. Most of us were blindsided at first.
It is our job, to sift throught the garbage they spew at us, and our own garbage and decide what is real and what isn't.
And how that affects us.
Cat
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
