Quote: We should bear in mind that everybody's definition of "success" is going to be different. This is about finding a compromise between two people who want very different things. The middle ground may not be what you imagined it to be, but it would be something that made you both happy.
Amen, Jiji!
I think that this is gonna be one of the biggest hurdles is actually "defining" what "success" is!
Is it the frequency of sex, the "quality" of it (under our own definitions), the variation of "routine", the variety of methods, who initiates it, etc., etc.?
This is where you get back into the basics of "knowing what you want", and then setting some small goals on how to get there.
Much more to say, but that's probably enough for now!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Here's a letter to Michele from a LD spouse who made some changes to help turn their relationship around. Although this was written by the LD spouse, we can touch on some points for the HD spouse to consider at the end, and discuss it a bit.
Here's the letter....
Quote: Just had to share my success story.
Last year my husband of 21 years, confronted me with his unhappiness with our sex life. I was defensive at first, telling him that I could not help the fact that I my desire was not equal to his, and that this was something he would just have to live with. Thankfully, before any further harm was done I realised how much I really loved him and that I had better find out quickly how to remedy our problem. I found your website and was determined to work hard and put your principles in practice. It was hard at first, but I wanted us to have the best marriage possible.
First I had to completely change my way of thinking about our marriage. Then I had to change my behavior. This was hard work. But I feel it would not be as rewarding as it has been if I had not had to work hard for it. It has been over a year now and a wonderful pattern to our life has emerged. I tried many different things but in the end I will tell you what really worked.
I determined that I would enthusiastically initiate sex every other night. That way my husband would never again have to worry about whether or not he was having sex. He could be content in knowing that he just had wonderful sex, or he would be having wonderful sex tomorrow. Now he could really relax and enjoy life. I also determined in my mind that I would never refuse to have sex with him. If he desired to initiate sex on the "off" night I would gladly have sex with him. I never sat down and told him these things. I just started to do it.
Looking back at our marriage I realised that although my husband loved having sex, he did not like to initiate sex, I believe because of fear of rejection. Our frequency was not that great because he would be somewhat reluctant to initiate and I could take it or leave it, so I hardly ever initiated either.
But that has all changed completely. We are having sex regularly, about four times a week. I can tell he is very happy, and we are having a great time making love. It has hard work, learning how to initiate sex, when sometimes I was not really "in the mood". But I realised that "being in the mood" is a big lie. The truth is I love my husband and I have the power to triumph (or trump) my mood.I have determined to always be in the mood to love him.
A wonderful side effect of all this hard work is the enjoyment and pleasure I feel when we are making love. First I learned how to please my husband and now it has become very pleasurable for me. He sees how much I want to please him, he pleases me in return. The change is remarkable and I am thankful that we are both able to love each other the way God intended it to be.
Ain't this a great letter?! Don't you wish that this is something that your partner could do, and write about?!
I was defensive at first, telling him that I could not help the fact that I my desire was not equal to his, and that this was something he would just have to live with.
How are you approaching your partner that might make them automatically be defensive? What could you do and say different that might help the two of you talk about this better? What ways have worked in the past for talking about "sensitive subjects", that might be able to work for you concerning this one?
Our frequency was not that great because he would be somewhat reluctant to initiate and I could take it or leave it, so I hardly ever initiated either.
Is this a problem in your relationship? Who usually gets things going, or are you both waiting for the other to start?
First I learned how to please my husband and now it has become very pleasurable for me. He sees how much I want to please him, he pleases me in return.
Are you missing out on any ways to please your partner, so that they might want to please you in return? Even in a "non-sexual" way, that might lead to other things?
What other comments or thoughts do you have about this? Especially if you are a HD, and have learned something about a LD point of view?
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: Ain't this a great letter?! Don't you wish that this is something that your partner could do, and write about?!
Yeah JJ, we all wish, but as Cemar said, it is very rare indeed. The HD spouse is usually in denial, refuses to acknowledge there is a problem/discrepancy in desires and refuses to talk or do anything about it.
How are you approaching your partner that might make them automatically be defensive? What could you do and say different that might help the two of you talk about this better? What ways have worked in the past?
So what happens if nothing has worked in the past, we have tried different approaches, all unsuccessful, what could we do or say thats different if the spouse refuses to even talk about it?
Is this a problem in your relationship? Who usually gets things going, or are you both waiting for the other to start?
Its usually the HD who gets things going of course, until they reach a point when they are too tired of being rejected all the time.
Are you missing out on any ways to please your partner, so that they might want to please you in return? Even in a "non-sexual" way, that might lead to other things?
We try all ways to please our partners in non-sexual ways of course, the partner gets so "pleased" they think that no sex is no longer a problem with the HD.
What other comments or thoughts do you have about this? Especially if you are a HD, and have learned something about a LD point of view?
Sorry to sound so negative, but thats just the way it is for many of us and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.
Quote: So what happens if nothing has worked in the past, we have tried different approaches, all unsuccessful, what could we do or say thats different if the spouse refuses to even talk about it?
I might ask you about the "distant past". When your sex life together was good. Even for seemingly brief periods of time.
What was going on then? What was different during these times? What was happening that was good that may have helped this to happen?
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: The guys will keep their female cyborg companions in the trunk, and only take them out when they are needed.
That was funny but I bet she'd be out of the truck quiet a bit - Cybie honey, could you wash my clothes, Cybie honey, where are my clean towels, socks, underwear, Cybie honey would you mind ironing this shirt - you do a better job than I do - Cybie - is dinner ready yet?
I had just finished reading "What Men Want Women to Know" and "What Women Want Men To Know" by Deangelis. What got me started was the book about men being around 120 pages shorter than the book about women :-)
Funny that you mentioned the 'mothering' that women do for men. That was covered in both books.
Thanks for the comment! -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
What an incredible woman. As a LD spouse, she finally saw the light. The key here is THE LD SPOUSE FINALLY GOT IT AND DID THE CHANGING IN HERSELF THAT IS REQUIRED. I'll bet that less then 1 in 100 LD women ever get to her level of understanding.
Initiate Sex every other night. SHE IS MY DREAM WOMAN! I think my wife initates sex once every DECADE. THE WOMAN INITATING SEX IS THE KEY where she is the LD. The problem is not actually solved until this happens. This really pisses me off, there are people having sex every other day, GOD my wife is pathetic!!!
I want to see letters from HD men that have COMPLETELY FRIDGID BITCH wives, where they have employed all the techniques of SSM and this board, where the wife is not much of a willing partner. You know, the impossibly hard cases. Especially those with wives over 35, going into midlif or later.
I appreciate you letter here, but man, this was a letter from the IDEAL WOMAN, most of us just are not this lucky.
The female companion would not be in the trunk. If they ever made female companions, they would be given personalities that border on being sluts. They would never give them the regular female personalities, Because men would not BUY them.
Everything you say is the way it happens 90% of the time in our cases. We as the HD spouse must try and try and try and try different techniques to help the LD spouse understand what they are doing. We must also create the environment to allow them to change. BUT THE KEY IS ALWAYS, THE LD SPOUSE MUST CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY. Even Michelle in the SSM book tells the LD spouse THEY MUST CHANGE, or it will never work. The problem always becomes that by meeting all the needs of the LD woman, those woman actually began to believe that the husband has seen the light, he has adopted his FEMALE characteristics and now enjoys the marriage from HER point of view. They think WE have changed to speak their love languages. Now all is WELL! Nothing could be farther from the truth!!!! HD men ALWAYS need sex, ALWAYS, as in FOREVER!!!!
Quote: I might ask you about the "distant past". When your sex life together was good. Even for seemingly brief periods of time.
What was going on then? What was different during these times? What was happening that was good that may have helped this to happen?
Thanks for the clarification JJ. The funny thing is that my relationship with my H now is a lot better than the way it was when we had a sex life. We are loving and affectionate and considerate towards each other. We laugh a lot together and enjoy each others company. We communicate better now too, except about sex that is. Anyway, my sitch is complicated by the fact that h is taking meds for panic attack and is often stressed by the fact that it may affect his work. He feels a lot of pressure from this as he is the sole breadwinner since I am a SAHM. I suspect his low libido is a result of the meds but its only my guess since he will not say even though I have asked. I have no heart to pressure him further so I keep quiet now and everything is good between us, only, there is no passion. I am 4 1/2 months pregnant now and Dr says no sex so its just as well isn't it but I do not forsee this problem going away. Sigh.
