Just wanted to start a new thread since the other was long.
Guys, perspective is everything. Perception is just below that. I had a great night last night with the W as I posted earlier. Great talk. I have a road map. Things are great.
We both slept deep and hard. First time for both of us in a long time.
It's funny though, because W woke up to go to work and wasn't terribly loquacious. Normally she is and NORMALLY when she isn't I would let my mind wonder - what's going on?
But you know what? Today, I held on to last night and completely put myself in her shoes. She just let a huge weight off her shoulders and is a little vulnerable. She is afraid to get hurt once again so she may be a little on the defensive side. PLUS it's 5am and she has to get ready to go to work.
Armed with that, I simply supported her (she asked me to pick up a stethoscope for her and I agreed to) and let her be.
She ended up talking a little more and we even laughed a little. She gave me a kiss - which given my current state of sickness, I wouldn't have been offended if I didn't get one
Today is a new day and I look forward to being creative for a change. I'm ready to have FUN again and not spend so much dang time worried about this R.
OH--
This is a question for the ladies (and Denver - who's getting a little sweet on me - I KID!!) W mentioned the fact that she got a little neck massage while at the nails place. I mentioned this morning that I would like to give her one ZERO strings attached either tonight or tomorrow. She agreed.
Was that a good move? I'm not going to pressure her but I know its something she likes (I'm pretty good at it) but in the past there was always strings attached. The only "string" for me is that I do it in a thong...WAIT! That's not me...the only string is that I get to touch my W.
thoughts???
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
Have you started to read the book I told you to read??? Touches - very necessary. Non-sexual touches so as to make her more comfortable for MORE touches... not necessarily non-sexual.
She's giving you the signals, Bolt. She agreed to the massage. That's VERY good. This is the natural progression of things.
You did EXACTLY the right thing. Just don't pressure her if she changes her mind.
I freaking LOVE that book. I know that, in time, my W will read it as well. It is so great to actually UNDERSTAND what the other person is feeling.
The big thing that I'm getting out of that book is the people's perceptions CAN change. I used to think that perception can be so far away from reality. I say one thing and W would take it completely different.
Now I'm learning not only to say things a little differently so that her perception is closer to my reality but also how to deal with the way she DOES perceive it.
I got it at the library but am sure I will buy it.
I can't thank you enough.
You know the thing that I'm looking forward with the massage (whenever it happens) is that she will feel physically good. She's always liked my touches and I haven't done this in a long time. It will be great for her to simply relax without any pressure.
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
Have you started to read the book I told you to read??? Touches - very necessary. Non-sexual touches so as to make her more comfortable for MORE touches... not necessarily non-sexual.
She's giving you the signals, Bolt. She agreed to the massage. That's VERY good. This is the natural progression of things.
You did EXACTLY the right thing. Just don't pressure her if she changes her mind.
LIS
LIS - What book are you talking about if you mind me asking? I wonder if it will help me as well.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Yeah, getting an understanding of what they are feeling, what we are feeling and what MWD is trying to do with her techniques really, really made me feel better and more confident.
The chapter on raw spots really resonated with me! I liken this to the button pushing that we all talk about. I realized that I had raw spots I never knew about and was reacting badly!
We all know what you're looking forward to with the massage, Bolt Seriously, though, I understand what you are saying. It is important she get used to your touches again. It's a funny thing with some women (me being one of them). Once I lose that trust, it's hard for me to want to be touched. When my H tried to hug me when my dad got sick, I literally jumped back out of his way. And boy, did he notice! I had gotten used to no touches and it's a bit of a road back. Be patient with her on this. I know that you are trying so hard to be. She needs to feel safe again, that's all.
We all know what you're looking forward to with the massage, Bolt Seriously, though, I understand what you are saying. It is important she get used to your touches again. It's a funny thing with some women (me being one of them). Once I lose that trust, it's hard for me to want to be touched. When my H tried to hug me when my dad got sick, I literally jumped back out of his way. And boy, did he notice! I had gotten used to no touches and it's a bit of a road back. Be patient with her on this. I know that you are trying so hard to be. She needs to feel safe again, that's all.
LIS
I love this discussion because this is something I need to understand on my terms - meaning, I'm not going to pressure her into telling me why - so I'll pressure the WAS women here
LIS, why don't you like being touched? Why did you jump back? Did you not feel love for him? or did you lose trust in him?
If it IS trust, how can that be won back?
See, here's my dilemma.
I want this process to be slow definitely. I also want to see progress on both ends. Right now we most definitely are. The way she cuddled with me 2 nights ago - I was in heaven short of the angels strumming harps. I know I won't get that every night and I'm realizing that there are a myriad of reasons: she's actually tired, she's just not feeling touchy, she feels gross/ugly/smelly/whatever (I got that excuse once a while back).
My mind, I guess, just needs a better feminine perspective.
Grr kinda hit on this when she said that all guys can be touched at just about any time. I heard a joke that someone said that he hasn't been with a woman in so long that when the wind blows, he gets an er@#* - you can fill in the blank.
But what is needed for a woman to feel touched?
I could rail off a bunch of words but I would rather hear the women speak here. A man wants to know what you gals want
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
I wish there was an answer to your question. It would be easier, wouldn't it? But every woman is different.
I can tell you what I feel. That's the best I can do. When I jumped back, I did so unconsciously. That's important to know. I didn't even understand what I was doing. It scared me. I thought about it and realized that there was a lot of trust lost in my relationship. I couldn't count on him being there tomorrow, so I definitely had the flight response. It helped protect me and my feelings. For me, sex and touches, well they are very personal. They are loaded with meaning for me. If I had let him touch me, well I am letting him into my deeper being. And I couldn't let that happen while he was exacting such destruction to my feelings.
I joke about looking forward to sex with my H and in a way, I do. But mostly right now I'm scared to death. I know that if we reconcile, he will want it sooner than I will. I cannot have sex with my H if I don't feel secure with the knowledge that he isn't going to up and leave me in the very next second. And building that trust takes time and a lot of reinforcing behaviors that he is willing to be with me.
This whole scenario wreaks havoc on a relationship, I know. The man needs sex for connection also. Many of them need sex before they can rebuild the trust. But you are astute enough to understand your needs and her needs and which need to come first right now.
I hope that helps. I wish I knew your wife so perhaps I could offer better insight.
This is a question for the ladies (and Denver - who's getting a little sweet on me - I KID!!) W mentioned the fact that she got a little neck massage while at the nails place. I mentioned this morning that I would like to give her one ZERO strings attached either tonight or tomorrow. She agreed.
Was that a good move? I'm not going to pressure her but I know its something she likes (I'm pretty good at it) but in the past there was always strings attached. The only "string" for me is that I do it in a thong...WAIT! That's not me...the only string is that I get to touch my W.
thoughts???
Alright Bolt... go back to your hanky panky with grr and leave me out of it!
... YES! What woman does not like a nice neck massage?!? I'd also suggest the foot massage... goes a long way. But yes, I have the same problem as you, usually I have other motives when I do these things.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
LIS, you are helping so much because it sounds like you are very similar. You are both the same age so that does help a little as well.
I totally see that, where you are coming from and where my W may be coming from.
It's funny because she has never been "into" sex until we actually are "into" it. Once the engine gets revved, she's ready to go. But if it isn't, forget about it. I think right now, that engine is up on blocks
I like how you put the needs perspective. All guys should reread that. Wait, here. I'll post it again:
[post] But you are astute enough to understand your needs and her needs and which need to come first right now. [/post]
That is great to show what is important. Get her needs fulfilled first and your needs will be fulfilled. I know that in my heart for sure so I have to believe it.
keep 'em coming ladies!
(wait, that sounded bad...)
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
Seriously, though, I understand what you are saying. It is important she get used to your touches again. It's a funny thing with some women (me being one of them). Once I lose that trust, it's hard for me to want to be touched. When my H tried to hug me when my dad got sick, I literally jumped back out of his way. And boy, did he notice! I had gotten used to no touches and it's a bit of a road back. Be patient with her on this. I know that you are trying so hard to be. She needs to feel safe again, that's all.