Stuck Like "Crazy" Glue

[angel61]

Sic, punchy, it seems like our sitches are all coming together in the same way - us with live in spouses who are all straining to run....
We have been resisting but are at the point where we are getting tired of holding on to that leash and are letting go.
Maybe that is the true meaning of DB.

Punchy I just read what you posted to SIC about acceptance , and I am here to let you know that it is true, it changes things so radically.

H and I talked last Sunday, and I finally told him that I am turning a corner and starting to accept our sitch. I wanted to make him happy, I could no longer stand seeing him so miserable because I loved him, and if it means separating, so be it. But I still did ask him to give it time as I think D12 can't take it as this point, for reasons he knows as well.

I talked to him about my plans for what will happen after the S or D...and the effect was that it made the prospect real for him, made him realize that I meant it. I even expressed my wishes on what are the things I would like to do before we separate - like doing our dream of going to Alaska, etc.

Immediately, the atmosphere cleared and within the day, we started talking and laughing. He agreed with my plans, let me know that he will always support me no matter what undertaking I have, financially and in other ways. He told me that he actually did ot want to get married again, and wanted to maintain a good relationship with me. For the first time, I agreed also.

The funny thing, when I started talking about my plans for my own life, which included quitting work to review for licensure exams and going back to residency so I can practice being an MD here, he even said that we'll have to sell the house, scale down and live in an apartment, if that would be OK with me. We? I thought we'd be separated by then?

At the end of the day, we even progressed to the point where he admitted that we still have a physical attraction for each other.

One of the peculiarities of our sitch is that unlike you guys, we still do have a some sex life (ok, go ahead sic and be jealous). PEI always tells me to be careful of the sex part, but I think in our case, it might help. For a while, after EA ended, H was so depressed that he lost interest in sex, but nowadays I culd sense his attraction to me coming back and boy, am I flirting! Its not like we are ML often ( I think just 3 times this 2011, and the first one was a disaster) but emotionally, he is still distant. Guys, tell me if that is not a positive in our sitch. Let me know if it will make him lose respect, or if it will be fuel to the fire.

I am praying so hard that I made the right decision.....

[ScaredinCanada]

So we got into some R talk last night, after W made some comments to the kids about "not being able to afford the house". D5 said, "I love my room and I love my house and I'm never going to leave it."

After we got the kids to bed we started chatting a bit. W seemed really interested to engage in conversation, but seemed to struggle with her words. I was trying to just listen, but I was trying to help the sitch progress. A couple times instead validating, and "interpreted" what she said in a negative way (I need to stop doing this).

She then said, "I thought you were fine with this, you were going to help me pick out a house?" To which I responded, "I said I was content with it, that if this is what had to happen I would do my best to support you - with the understanding that it's not my desired outcome, that I still want us to be together and work through the issues together and build a better stronger R"

She just told me again that it's a real struggle for her, because she doesn't love me and believes she'll never love me, because she doesn't believe she was ever in love with me. She said she wanted to leave me when were dating, but that she was scared to leave because she was worried I'd hurt myself. I validated all of this and said I felt bad that she felt that way.

I told her that it's obviously not the way I am now, but she said she stills fears that it's the way I will react. She said she has no desire to ML to me or even touch me, because she so angry that I didn't deal with my mother and way she treated my W. She said she'll never forgive, doesn't believe she can. I just told her I cannot believe that she means that, because I forgave her when she cheated on me and I've been taking the necessary steps to address the issues with my mother. I acknowledged that it's not going to change over night, but I'll continue to work on it.

She was telling me that she doesn't know how to even go about falling in love with me that she can't just snap her fingers and love me again, she said she has no desire to go out with just me. She sums the issues as "Your just SIC, you annoy me, and I can't stand you, you never came to bed unless you wanted sex, or you were always on the computer or watching sports". At this point I struggled to keep my emotions and actually snapped at her a bit, because of her steadfast attitude.

She mentioned that I don't listen to her, that I cut her off and I turn her words around to mean whatever I want. I told her I didn't mean to but the sitch had made it hard for me to control my emotions at times. She also said after she said that she didn't love me or want me, that she couldn't understand how a person could still be in love the person when they were telling them these things.

I told her I wasn't sure, but that I did know that I did still love her, our family and our life together and that I want to fix the issues that have impacted on our R so that we can a loving and healthy R.

She said, I'm sure you do but I just don't believe it. She said "You'll probably go out there and meet someone else and be amazing husband to them." She also said that she is really struggling with this because she loves our family dynamic, the family vacations and the times we go out as a family are really good.

She just she has no desire to be with me...

I'm hurting pretty good here, so please don't rip me up for some of my mis-steps. I know I made some mistakes, and will be better next time we talk.

I struggle to understand what kind of long-term effects going through a sitch like this can have on someone?

Even though she re-iterated a lot of the negative things, I can still see how much she struggles with what she is doing. How do I proceed, as it seems my "supportive" attitude only lead her to believe things would be easier, that I wasn't trying to stop her and in the end I don't see how that helps me.

Not sure what's next here. Probably do my best to lie low tonight, going to try and take the girls swimming hopefully get out of the house tonight.

SIC

[punchy]

Hey SIC...

Overall, I don't think you did that bad. I would give anything to have a R talk with my wife. In terms of agreeing with her decision to leave, your answer was right on. You stated that it is not want you want, b ut you are willing to support her if this is what she wants to do. This is not the response that she expects from you. It shows that you are being unselfish and giving up your needs for hers. Its the ultimate gift.

Arguing with her about wanting to leave only reflects the old you, the one who was only focused on himself. I know it seems counter productive, but you want to show yourself in a new light.

How long you can continue with this is hard to say. The emotional stress that you are under is not healthy over the long term. In my sitch I feel like I have a migraine 24/7. I constantly look at other people and imagine what it would be like to go home after work and have your loving wife waiting to greet you with a hug and a smile. Such a simple request, but one that seems impossible to attain. I have given myself a target of 18 months. At the beginning of may I will re-evaluate where I am and see if I can keep going on or not.

I think we both just want this bad dream to go away. Keep working on the family activities as much as possible. Your wife values this and you need to use this to your advantage.

[Denver_2010]

Ahhh SIC... that was a tough conversation to have, I'm sure. I'm sorry that you are hurting. I wish that there was something that I could say to you.

I think that you did a great job with how you handled it though. There is nothing that you can do or say right now that is going to change your W's PERCEPTION of her reality. Get what I mean. You see things one way... she sees them another. You can't change that.

There is a book that I'd mention here if I thought that I could, but it is about 4 things in life that we should live by... to be happier.

One of those 4 things is to NOT take things personally... it means that NOTHING others do is bc of you.... That what others do or say is a projection of their own reality, their dream. .. If you remember this, and become immune to the actions of others, you can avoid a lot of undue personal suffering.

Your W is hurting too. She is confused too. Trust me. But this is something that she is going to have to figure out on her own. You cannot help her.

What you CAN do is be the best SIC that you can be... each and every day.

BITS
Denver

[ScaredinCanada]

Thanks guys, and I am trying to be the best ME that I can be. I know my W sees, it's just not what she wants right now and she resents the fact that I was the way I was for so long - and now that she's "done" I'm finally changing. I understand that and I appreciate that.

So last night I was planning to lay low. Stopped and got my hair cut on the way home, got home W had made dinner. We ate, and I cleaned up. I asked her if I could take the girls swimming and she said that it was fine she didn't have any plans.

Swimming was ok, D5 and D6 were arguing about which pool to go in and D2 fell on the pool deck twice because "I'm a big girl", she won't let me hold her hand.

Get home, W helps me get the girls to bed and then I go downstairs to watch the hockey game (trying to just leave her alone). Surprisingly she comes downstairs?!?

She then asks me if she can watch something instead of hockey (we have a TV upstairs, I'm surprised she came down), and of course I say sure. We are on seperate couches, and she's is really moppy, just flicking through the channels. (She had been acting very cold and depressed looking all night).

So I just nicely said, "Are you feeling ok, you don't seem yourself?"

She said, "Don't worry about it, it's not your problem." BAH.

I said, "Sure it is, you know I care and if your down I want to be here for you - so what's up."

She says, "I just hate my life, you know that appointment I said I had a the bank in order to get money out of my savings for the trip?" I said, "Yes" (I knew all along it wasn't just to get money out, you don't need an appointment to get money out!)

She said, "It's an appointment to see what kind of mortgage I can be approved for on my own - but I don't think I'm going to be approved for enough".

She is a waitress and thus her claimed income versus her actual is not very much. I just think it's really funny, because when all this first came she wasn't even thinking about that - wasn't concerned even though it's one of the first things I thought of. So I'm not really sure what she is going to do.

I'm assuming she can tell them the amount she is going to get for child support and they can factor that into it?? Not sure.

Anyways, at that point I just got up to go upstairs and she says, "What's wrong with you?"

I just said, "Nothing, I'm tired and want to get to bed" because nothing was wrong, I was tired and wanted to get to bed.

So I'm not sure if she is now feeling trapped, like she does "need" me at least financially if not emotionally and that's why she said, "I hate my life."

It will be interesting to see how she is acting on the night after she goes to the bank.

Another thing I realized too is that I think she is trying to "save" her mother in all of this too. Since her M and her M's BF live with us (they've been together for about 6 years), but neither of them are happy.

She is going fix herself by getting away from me and take her M with her and get her away from her BF. Not sure how much this plays a part.

I guess I just keep struggling with the fact that she doesn't think I am worth trying. All of effort is in trying get away from me - I just wish I knew what about me is so toxic. I mean she has some reasonable complaints, but they aren't "show stoppers"! They are things that can be addressed, heck I've already addressed some of them.

1. Too much time online - used to be online every night, now online when necessary or occassionally after everyone goes to bed. I've cut this down drastically.

2. Lazy and out of shape - I've lost 40lbs, gained muscle, looking better everyday. Help out with chores regularly without her asking - because I should.

3. My Mother - had initial talks with her about a month and half ago, my W also laid everything on the table. It's a work in progress.

4. Thoughtless and uncaring person - everyday I am trying to be more thoughtful, compassionate and caring. Mostly I am doing works with my children (ie. valentine's day, christmas stuff, birthday's) and with my W in trying to be thoughtful in everyday life.

5. Anger Management - this is likely something my W would say is an issue, but I don't even remember the last time I really got angry, maybe frustrated but not angry. Regardless it's something I'm aware of and trying to be a calmer person.

6. Not listening - trying to listen and validate more instead of interupting or interpreting her words differently.

7. Lack of quality time with W - this is something I look forward to working on because it really matters to me. When I get the chance now I want to make the most of it, but look forward to the chance to really show her how important I beleive time together is...

They are all things I need to continue to work on, but I believe in every case I'm much better than I was in the past.

SIC

[lostinscared]

SIC,

It's been 3 months, right? And I doubt you made all of those changes on day 1. Meaning that it's probably going to take awhile to make those changes.

I wouldn't think of the mortgage thing so much as her feeling that she is trapped. She is getting knocked into reality. That's different. My H went through a similar thing. He lost 30 lbs. during this period (he didn't have 30 lbs to lose). He got very depressed. They spend sooooooo long with this fantasy about leaving and then reality strikes. This is a good thing, though, because then it gives them an opportunity to finally look at you and see the changes.

Stay the course, you're doing well!!!!

I'm praying for you.

LIS

[gucci loafer]

I want you to know that you are taking on a lot of blame here and yet not really seeing the reality of what is REALLY going on. You have danced around the issue a few times in your posts in the last few months, but seem to be unable to handle the truth and reality of what is going on...

Your wife is having an affair..

How do I know this?

Well, other than the hundreds of obvious other signs she has been dropping..

Shortly after that my W said she really wasn't feeling good so she wanted to go back to the room to lie down for a bit. She asked me to walk her back - which I did. It was around 9:15pm, and I asked her if she could make sure to come back before midnight for the New Years celebration, as I really wanted to spend it with my W. She promised me she back down by 11:30pm. 11:30pm came and went and I was just watching for her to walk through the door but soon people were drinking champaine and yelling happy New Year. I was a mess, just devasted that she just sleep through. So I decided it would be best to go check on her and make sure she was ok. I get back to the room and SHE'S NOT THERE!! So now I am panicing, thinking she's literally left me here and gone home (over an hour drive home).

I go back to the reception to see if somehow we've just missed each other. She's not there, so I head back to the room and she's in the room! So I immediately asked her were she was because she said she was going to be sleeping.

She had decieded that she wanted to go and see her M on New Years, so she drove all the way home without telling me and said that she had planned to be back in time to celebrate New Years with me. I told her she was lieing, that she had fully intended to drive back home and she didn't care if she came back to be with me for New Years. She said she honestly believed "That you wouldn't care if I was there." I course that just made me angry, I told her that all I wanted was to spend it with her, and that I couldn't believe that she didn't care enough to tell me so I wouldn't be waiting around for her.

SIC,
You DO knosw don't you that this was a lie? She is covering for going to see her affair partner. You fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Stop taking all the blame here. You need to do some detective work and find out who this affair is with. Stop being naive. This has been going on for awhile..

Remember when her worked called her wanting her to come in and you thought she was already at work? Remember she had it on the calendar?

That was another big error she made and you failed to see it.

I know it is hard to admit when your spouse is having an affair, but until you flush this out, you are heading down a dead end road...

Wise up.. Stop asking her IF she is having one. They almost ALWAYS lie when in the midst of an affair. However, her actions are showing again and again and again that there is someone else in the picture..

BE WISE

[ScaredinCanada]

Hey Gucci,

I confirmed the "alibi" with her M. Not directly, but indirectly. Also, she was only gone for 2 hours - I struggle to think she was meeting up with someone. I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem very logical.

I also remember the work/calendar mix up as well, and again I'm open to the fact that it could be an affair but I just don't see it.

I haven't asked or discussed any sort of A in well over a month, and there really hasn't been any suspicious activity that would warrant there being an A. She doesn't have a cell phone, she doesn't have e-mail or use the internet. We only have 1 car so the majority time she is home with the kids. Other than a handful of times that's gone out on her own, she takes the kids with her if she goes out.

Oh I know for sure if there was an A she be lieing to me about it, I know that. I've been down this road before, I'm not naive.

As others have said, what real value would I get out of KNOWING that there was an A??

I honestly believe with all my heart that there is no affair.

I don't think there is ANY sort of snooping I could do that would validate this one way or the other.

SIC

[ScaredinCanada]

SIC,

It's been 3 months, right? And I doubt you made all of those changes on day 1. Meaning that it's probably going to take awhile to make those changes.

I wouldn't think of the mortgage thing so much as her feeling that she is trapped. She is getting knocked into reality. That's different. My H went through a similar thing. He lost 30 lbs. during this period (he didn't have 30 lbs to lose). He got very depressed. They spend sooooooo long with this fantasy about leaving and then reality strikes. This is a good thing, though, because then it gives them an opportunity to finally look at you and see the changes.

Stay the course, you're doing well!!!!

I'm praying for you.

LIS

Agreed LIS, I do know that the changes have come over the 3 month period and in some cases it's probably only been a couple weeks of her noticing. I realize that it will take some time as it took time to get into this sitch.

Timeline wise I have until about April/May until we would need to make a decision about selling the house.

A few months to have it listed and possibly sell it. Then a another couple months to close it, likely in time for next school year to start (September).

So time is on my side to a point, and I need to remain patient.

SIC

[Denver_2010]

I guess I just keep struggling with the fact that she doesn't think I am worth trying. All of effort is in trying get away from me - I just wish I knew what about me is so toxic. I mean she has some reasonable complaints, but they aren't "show stoppers"! They are things that can be addressed, heck I've already addressed some of them.

SIC - You're missing the point. This is NOT about you, or any fault that you may have, anymore. This is about your W... her reality... her perception of you and her life.

She does NOT want to be married to you. She doesn't want you to touch her. You think that you have the power to change this? No way.

NOTHING that you can do is going to change this. NOTHING.

Your W is the only person on this planet that has control over how she feels or how she acts. And she may not even have much control over those things right now.

Can it change? Yes! Most definitely. There is no question in my mind that it CAN.

But it is not up to you.

There is a part of me that wants to advise you to take the initiative and move out of your home. Do you have the financial means to go get an apartment? I know that I will get slammed for this, but sometimes, things get so toxic in a R that physical separation can be good. It's like when you give a timeout to 2 children who aren't getting along.

I also think that DBing would be easier for you if you were physically S'd. Right now your W has no idea what life will be like without you. She has no chance to miss you. She has no opportunity to work through all of these negative emotions bc you are always there as a constant reminder of them. Get it?

BITS
Denver