The unexamined life is not worth living

[nic1]

figgeroni,

I haven't read your thread yet, but it's now on my "to read" list. You sound as though you are in a great place now - congrats.

I think S_C and I have been through similar stuff. I kept "taking him back" because I love him and I couldn't envision giving up on my marriage and breaking my vows.

Then the distance became so severe, I suggested I leave. I kept thinking it couldn't be worse than it was- totally ignored emotionally by my H.

I regrouped and wanted to move forward, but the damage was done. Unbeknownst to me, he was planning his escape. He told his sister he left before he got hurt. He was confused. He didn't know if he could make me happy. He acted as if he hated me after he dropped the ILYbut bomb. The OW appeared, and I think the female vultures are as bad as the males.

A mutual friend said "I hope you work it out, but if there is an A, that's a deal breaker." I said no it's not. He looked floored, but I told him I still love H, and there was no reason to not work on a new marriage with H. I don't see that as being a doormat. If others see as that, who cares? I'd have be with the man I love, and hopefully creating a wonderful marriage with him. It's my life, not theirs.

I think I'm acting As If, and detaching, and GAL. He comes by occasionally, we text occasionally. Not sure what else I should be doing. No R talks since early December - he know I want to work on the marriage, and he said the door wasn't shut. I'm truly in limbo, not sure if I should be packing up to leave the house bec it will need to sell if we D. Wondering where I'll be in 6 months. No talk of filing from him, even though I expected it Jan 1. The longer he delays, the longer I have to work on me, and maybe he'll come around.

Hang in there.

[Denver_2010]

Nic - I'd like to catch up on your situation, but I don't know where your thread is. Can you cut and past the url on a post on my thread?

Also, I responded to a couple of things that you posted on one of my older threads. It is here on THIS thread... just a couple of pages back.

DENVER

[nic1]

Denver,

They are/were just friends.

FYI - Keep in mind that neither your wife nor I could know that, because the spouse wouldn't let us in to see that for ourselves. I now know from DB that what you imagine is far worse than what is really happening, but that doesn't keep your imagination from painting a horrible picture. And from the outside looking in, the 'friend' looks just like an OW.

[nic1]

Denver,

My threads.

I switched from Newcomers to MLC because I thought H fit there, but now not so sure.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...415#Post2114415

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...938#Post2119938

Thank you for the interest. Any and all help/feedback is appreciated.

[Denver_2010]

I do see that now Nic. I wish that I had been given that perspective long ago.

Thank you.

BITS
Denver

[grr]

denver - i hope you are having a great day
xo

[2stepboogie]

FIGGERONI has given some really sound advice.

[ironMan]

I am struggling with that question myself right now Ironman.

The other night during my conversation with my W... the big one. As we were talking about the possibility of reconciliation, she said to me, "You're sitting there wondering how you can ever trust this woman again."

I said, "well, yes, actually." I had already told her how I had gone through this process of considering, truly considering, what my vows meant to me after she left. At this point, I told her that I was feeling that she had now broken those vows. So yes, I was sitting there wondering if I could ever trust this woman again.

Well, her response was this... "When I left you, I was DONE. I was not leaving you so that you would wake up and change. I was done. I hated your guts. And I was already moving on with my life. I planned on leaving you in September while you were out of town, but the place I was going to rent fell through. I was done."

As I see it now... days after the conversation, she was emotionally divorced from me long before I knew that she was even going to leave me.

This is actually typical of the WAW. They plan the walk away for weeks, sometimes months, before they actually execute it.

Now I went back to the issue of vows and trust with my W as I was talking to her.

Me: "I want to be with someone who loves me unconditionally and is not going to break their M vows when things go wrong for a period of time"

W: "Taking vows and giving unconditional love does not mean that you let yourself be trampled and taken advantage of for years, Denver. I gave you unconditional love for 7 years and I tried to make you commit to the M. You never did... And YOU abandoned our M long before I ever thought about leaving. You broke your vows to love and cherish me... If we decide to work on this, you know that I am a good person... and that I will be loyal to you... you KNOW that."

Me: "Yes I do. Everything that you have just said is right. You deserved more... I thought that if I gave you a percentage of what you were asking for that that should've been good enough. But you deserve it all W. I just want to know that if we decide to work on this that you aren't going to run for the hills the next time we hit a rocky patch."

Sorry Ironman... probably more info than needed for this response. My point is, is that our vows and unconditional love are in the eyes of the beholder. And maybe, they don't mean that someone must live unhappily for the rest of their life bc they have made those vows or have promised unconditional love. Maybe there is a trump card when it is someone's personal happiness involved.

See... told you. I'm struggling with these concepts myself here.

BITS
Denver

Hmm, yes. This is very tough, Denver. I think in your case the fact that you had already checked out actually makes this part easier for you than for me. But yes, this is a tough problem. I don't mind struggle ... but I detest people who run when the going gets tough. Like your W said, and you agree, there is a statute of limitations .... and 7 yrs is a long time to suffer. But ... I dunno

[Denver_2010]

Hmm, yes. This is very tough, Denver. I think in your case the fact that you had already checked out actually makes this part easier for you than for me. But yes, this is a tough problem. I don't mind struggle ... but I detest people who run when the going gets tough. Like your W said, and you agree, there is a statute of limitations .... and 7 yrs is a long time to suffer. But ... I dunno

Well all 7 years wasn't suffering for my W, Ironman... I mean there IS a reason that she fell in love with me, and a reason that she told me the other night that she does still love me. I wasn't ALL bad. But yes, I did do a lot of bad things.

BITS
Denver

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Denver,

I am not going to be very nice in this post. I’m not going to be overtly mean.

Consider this a 1x1.

So, here lies the 'pride' problem. If I reconcile with W, then it looks to these guys, my friends, that I just got walked over. That I was just a doormat and let my W have a PA.

Do you want to save face or your marriage?

Are you more worried about how you appear to others than your wife? Wasn’t that part of the underlying problem? The old Denver who’s wife was…secondary?

You LET your wife have a PA? This is what you think of other guys you know who’s wife had an affair? They let them?

So…I LET my wife have an affair? Because I took her back and we rebuilt our marriage?

I LET her?

I am not mad at you, just THAT is f-ed up thinking.

And, even if it did, and I spilled my guts like I did here, they would still, most likely, think less of my W and think that I was a doormat.

F them.

If you can forgive her, they sure as sure can. If they cannot? Seek a less judgmental social group, one who’s horses aren’t quite so high and who’s houses aren’t made of glass. Seems to me, based upon what you’re saying is they are going to talk about you no matter the outcome Denver.

In trying times, you discover exactly who your friends truly are.

...
Justifying an action is saying that the action wasn't wrong. Killing someone bc they are threatening your life is self defense... it is a justifiable action. You will not get charged for killing that person.

See the difference with what I'm saying?

That is how I'm able to look at my situation. No more, no less. Not sure anyone can convince me that my w's actions are justifiable.

Oh I absolutely see what you’re saying.

I think you’re thinking too much like a lawyer right now, and I do not believe that way of thinking is going to help you.

Think like a husband who wants to be married, or isn’t sure and less about assigning a value and level of fault.

You both f-ed up, you both should apologize and do better. There is no score card for failure, there is no first place for doing LESS wrong.

Neither of you can defend or justify your failings, you can only own them.

Seems like you both are, but it seems like you expect her to accept yours and your apology and move forward. While she should own her failure a little more, apologize a little more, move forward a little less.

I just want to know that if we decide to work on this that you aren't going to run for the hills the next time we hit a rocky patch."

...hit a rocky patch...

You just trivialized all your past failings and all her hurt and pain, into something akin to an argument.

You marginalized everything you owned up to when you were brutally honest here earlier. And you did it to her.

What some of the older posters know is that I was a Walk Away Husband in my first marriage. And an LBS in my second.

That emotional divorce is true. When I left, I was done.
I cannot speak for your wife, but I’ll speak from what I remember.

I didn’t trust her anymore to commit to the changes I repeatedly told her I needed, changes she would make for a few weeks before falling back into old patterns.

Feeling that I was always secondary to her wants and needs. That I should change for her, but it was one sided.

When I left I was done, it was just a matter of waiting for the paperwork. All it took was one final straw. And it was not a hard choice to make, to live with? Yes, but to make, no.

Nothing I said mattered, nothing I did mattered, nothing had ANY affect, her temporary changes, I felt were to shut me up, to keep me around, tricks. Like giving peanut butter to a barking dog.

To be dismissive of this? To assume this is some sort of trick?

Shows a lack of empathy you are going to want to acquire.

Denver,

Stop pointing fingers are who is “wronger” realize you both were, and man up, owe up, and figure out from this point forward how to do better.