The unexamined life is not worth living

[Denver_2010]

I was stuck with the idea of saving face almost?!?!

Thanks for taking the time to check in on my sitch Figgeroni! Also, thanks for the great words of wisdom. It is nice to hear that it is possible to make it through this stuff and end up happy.

That "saving face" comment that I am quoting struck a cord with me. I kind of feel like that too to an extent. Or maybe, it has more to do with pride. I'm not sure if anyone knows that my W's R with OM ever became PA, but there are people, including my W's H whom I am friends with, and a couple of my close friends who know that she was spending a lot of time with this guy. I can only assume that they are assuming that W had PA. And these guys have always had the same ideas on this kind of thing... that it is just quittin time if it happens.

So, here lies the 'pride' problem. If I reconcile with W, then it looks to these guys, my friends, that I just got walked over. That I was just a doormat and let my W have a PA.

If it ever came up, I would defend my W by spilling my guts like I did here... but I'm not sure that it ever would with these guys. And, even if it did, and I spilled my guts like I did here, they would still, most likely, think less of my W and think that I was a doormat.

Ultimately, I'm not going to let this affect any decisions. But it is still in my mind nonetheless. And I'm afraid that it will be uncomfortable with these people if W and I reconcile and we hang out with them... which will happen of course.

Anyway... just kind of journaling now. Thanks again Fig!!

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

Whoops... that was suppose to be W's sister's H... LOL

[Denver_2010]

Thanks dbmod. Your post really means a lot to me.

[Denver_2010]

In your W mind she left you, done and done, what is the easiest way to get a girl into bed…………….find one that is emotionally weak or going through heartbreak. They need attention they crave it. This vulture saw an opportunity and he came in. Sorry ladies but that is a fact, a secret every man knows.

You know what counts here. She told you. She was honest with you and said it. She even told you to take some time to think about how you want to handle this.

“She vowed to be faithful to me until death do us part... She gets out of that bc she decides that she doesn't want to do it anymore? That she is 'emotionally divorced'?”

I think you answered your own question here. You broke your vows you left her long before she left you. You emotionally divorced her before she divorced you. Once she left there is no vows anymore there is nothing. There is only her waiting to get the money to make the D final and legal. Maybe you had no idea what was going on inside her heart, it doesn’t make it any less real, it was real enough for her. So yes the PA is gut wrenching, I know this feeling like you would not believe, but it is ONE in a laundry list of things that have happened between the two of you.

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this 2Step. Unfortunately, I can't debate you bc there isn't anything in your post to debate. You are dead on with all of it.

One thing that especially struck a nerve with me is your comment about the vulture who saw the opportunity... this is what absolutely happened. My W was lonely, had been for 10 months bc I was such a jacka$s, and then she was emotionally weak while planning on, and executing, the physical S.

This is where my guilt comes in. I allowed this vulture... this predator... the opportunity to take advantage of this situation.

AND BTW, NOTHING, EVER will convince me that OM is NOT a predator. No man messes with another man's W!! You see that ring, that woman is off limits. And to top it off, this fing guy is messing with a another man's W who has an 11 year old son. What kind of guy does this?! And who could defend this kind of behavior?

The old Denver would track this guy down, take his head off, and shove his trumpet down his throat...

uggg... gotta suppress those feelings. Does me no good.

BITS
Denver

[2stepboogie]

I can't debate you bc there isn't anything in your post to debate.

What a pitty

What kind of guy does this?!

The very lowest of the low. It does not affect you until it happens to you. I was a dog in my younger years before W but I always had one simple rule. No women in ANY kind of relationships. Too many single women out there.

The old Denver would track this guy down, take his head off, and shove his trumpet down his throat...

The old 2step would have done it for sure, the new 2step would do it more covertly.

[Queen_of_Swords]

I'm in a difficult place as well right now.
I am the vulnerable one to another male's attention.
My H. doesn't appear to give a rip.
It's tempting to let things slide and give in, seeing that he hasn't appeared to give a rip really for the last ten years, and I've had no attention for the last two.

[Denver_2010]

2Step... thanks for the laugh man!! I like the covert idea!!

Scylia... all I can really say to you is that I have a much better understanding of what you are feeling than I have ever had before. Listen, we are all human beings, with human needs, and with human frailties. When we are abused in some way, whether it be physical or emotional, we are prone to succumb to our... needs and frailties.

I am trying to accept this is what happened to my W... what I helped happen. It is tough. But honestly, my W would never allowed for this to happen if I had not treated her the way that I did. She has always been fiercely loyal to her family, friends, and... to me. I took advantage of that quality.

I obviously can't tell you what to do with your own feelings. However, I AM a betting man, and if someone would take me up on it, I'd bet a million dollars that someday... someday, my W is going to look back on this whole ordeal and feel A LOT of guilt. Maybe not guilt to me... but guilt for violating her own moral code that she has always held so dearly.

I'd think about that before you do anything that you may regret in the future.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

Maybe I seemed callous to you. I didn't mean to be. But the way I read your story, your wife took a lot of abuse from you. You turned her out of the house and your marriage long before she sought comfort from another man. Really, what did you expect her to do? She's young, attractive, and abused at home. When she tries to move on and have a new life, that makes her a cheater? And he's a predator? I see self-preservation written all over her actions.

I can take it Lotus. I read your post during a wave of anger that I was feeling off and on this weekend. I haven't felt much anger during the entire course of my situation until I learned everything about OM. But I don't need all of the response to my posts to be sugar coated jingles about how everything is going to be just fine with my sitch. So your point is taken.

And yes, I am working on accepting that my W's actions were, in large part, self-preservation. What I don't necessarily agree with it is that it just justifies the behavior. And quite frankly, I don't think that, deep down, my W believes that either. What I found out about OM the other night explained to me why my W was unable to look me in the eyes during the first few times that we began to have more face to face contact. Why couldn't she look me in the eyes? Bc she knows, deep down, that her actions were wrong. Maybe they are excusable, but they are not justified. There is a difference.

And YES, absolutely Yes... OM is a predator. There is NOTHING that justifies HIS behavior. NOTHING. You do not mess with and get involved with another man's W. It IS just this simple. And you certainly do not get involved with a woman who is M'd and has an 11 year old son. What?! He thinks that he knows my W for 2 months and he's just going to step in and replace me in my SS's mind?? That is truly messed up!!! I simply do not see how you can possibly defend OM's behavior. My W, yes. Not the OM. He is a predator and should be ashamed of himself. And like I said, he deserves to have a good a$s beating. Not saying that would be right, I'm just saying... he deserves it.

As for your changes, that's great. You've been trying them out at home, and on this board, and being a great guy with your wife from a distance. And she has noticed the changes.

But all of that is rehearsal. You haven't done it for real, in the marriage, day in and day out yet. And that's where the rubber meets the road. The only changes that matter for repairing your marriage are the ones that she experiences. I have to agree with 2step. You've set the stage, you've done your rehearsal, and maybe you'll get the part in this show. The real work is yet to begin.

Point WELL taken. I think that you are right about this. I know that the real work has only just begun. However, I will tell you that my heart and soul is into making sure that I NEVER repeat the mistakes that I have made with my W. She is too good of a person for me to ever take advantage of her like I did for so long.

[Queen_of_Swords]

I am thinking about it Denver.
The question are:

How long am I prepared to wait for a man that doesn't appear to care what I do and whom I do it with?
Just how long should I stand for my marriage and not seek out what nourishes me and fills my heart?
I could consider myself divorced in circumstance if not in fact. Even here we say it's just a piece of paper.
I can justify it all if I wish.
The question is can I and still feel good about myself?

[grr]

"
So, here lies the 'pride' problem. If I reconcile with W, then it looks to these guys, my friends, that I just got walked over. That I was just a doormat and let my W have a PA."

this, denver, i do not understand at all
and maybe it's because i am a woman.....but really, who cares what they think???

they are not in your marriage
they are not the ones putting in all the effort to make this relationship work
and if they are truly your friends, they want the best for you and want you to be happy
they will be thrilled that you have the relationship you want
and will not judge the woman you love
xo