The unexamined life is not worth living

[hope2011]

I'm feeling some anger this afternoon. Don't know why... I just am.

Uh oh, then just read my post later.

[Denver_2010]

[/quote]

Uh oh, then just read my post later. [/quote]

LOL... that's okay Hope. Your post actually made me feel better. It was a good, yet subtle, 2x4 to my head. Just what I needed...

But, are we putting the cart before the horse? She said she's interested in saving it but she's not back yet. So have you had any time to think about where to go from here? What plans do you have? Valentine's Day?

Yes, we are still putting the cart before the horse. W and I left it still up in the air as to what we are going to do. She told me that I need to process the info re OM and let her know where I come out on everything. She told me to take "days, weeks, even months" to do this. I don't know how long I will actually need. I think that I've already made the decision to accept the facts and move on to a better and healthier M. But I do need to process through some emotions. And who knows, she could still change her mind. I'm not counting on anything quite yet.

As for Valentine's Day? Well, I ordered flowers to be sent to her classroom where she teaches. I had set this up before I learned everything that I have learned in the past 48 hours, but I still feel comfortable with this.

I don't have any other plans on how to go from here. I really haven't had much time to think about it. She is in St. Louis for a singing gig this weekend. I've spoken to her a couple of times about some issues with SS and we chit chatted a bit as well. I am hanging out with SS tonight, so I will probably hear from her later and tomorrow as well.

BITS
Denver

[figgeroni]

Denver...I was told to check in on you here

I understand the feeling of getting socked in the gut when the affair is revealed.

My thing was that I had made it very clear that THAT was a deal breaker
and
then when it happened

I found it really wasn't so much

and
then

I was stuck with the idea of saving face almost?!?!?

If your heart knew an affair happened then you have already been dealing with it

Whoever said that 3 months is not a long time is right

when you practice DB....you kind of are in it for life
because it is a life change

I am no longer with my ex...(long story, sort of movie of the week) but I am with the most amazing person...a man who loves my lights and darks and is practiced at the art of Dbing himself. Our relationship is the envy of others on the outside because they don't know the work that we went through to get here

so


When you are in it for the long haul
you will still get angry
scary white hot angry
that doesn't change....
how you deal with it does

Cori and I learn from each other every day but one of the greatest gifts we give each other is never taking the other person for granted. I know how lucky I am and so does he and we tell each other everyday.

Might be a nice habit to get into

because when you say it outloud, you not only tell the other person, and yourself, but you tell the world

it is a new beginning

she has to forgive you
you have to forgive her
and you both have to forgive yourselves

tough work
every day

but this is a chance to begin again

[Chrysalid]

Chrysalid - I hope that it did not appear as if I was irritated with your post. I just used my response to vent a little.

I'm feeling some anger this afternoon. Don't know why... I just am.

no worries.. didn't take it like that at all

i have a cheating H who doesn't believe he cheated and he in his heart and in his mind firmly believes this and affirms this belief to others .. so how can I convince him that he did ? I can't.. and I won't but I cannot let that be an obstacle if I want to get to the next level. His affair with the OW drove me insane and i admit i was an irrational lunatic with the way I handled the sitch no wonder I drove him further into her arms.. he couldn't wait to get away from the psycho at home.. lol

It's what you do now that counts, forgiving her and understanding will certainly take months.. take your time, be patient and do the best you can and for goodness sakes keep venting here !!

nicely said hope and figgeroni i'm not as eloquent with words as some of you are... lol

[2stepboogie]

Ok Denver I like a good debate, don’t worry about hurting my feelings I don’t have any . You explained yourself perfectly my point still stands.

But I'm struggling with the idea that my W's transgression is just 'okay'.

Find a post that says it is ok. Better yet find any post on any thread that says it is ok. I am not saying what she did is fine, it isn’t. Her transgressions are something I am sure she will live with just like it’s up to her to forgive you it is up to you to forgive her. In reality if you guys decide to keep going on saving your M you will both have issues that need to be worked out.

I get the whole emotionally divorced concept. I really do and my W also told me she would have D me sooner but she did not have the money. She actually told me that to my face while I was visiting. I kept my cool and said Ok. Yes the WAS went through these emotions why they were with us. Yes they were done when they left. I get all that. It doesn’t take away from the fact that it hurts like hell and it does not make it ok.

I think 48hrs is nothing to process all of this, I think you will need weeks to be honest with you. In your W mind she left you, done and done, what is the easiest way to get a girl into bed…………….find one that is emotionally weak or going through heartbreak. They need attention they crave it. This vulture saw an opportunity and he came in. Sorry ladies but that is a fact, a secret every man knows.

You know what counts here. She told you. She was honest with you and said it. She even told you to take some time to think about how you want to handle this.

“She vowed to be faithful to me until death do us part... She gets out of that bc she decides that she doesn't want to do it anymore? That she is 'emotionally divorced'?”

I think you answered your own question here. You broke your vows you left her long before she left you. You emotionally divorced her before she divorced you. Once she left there is no vows anymore there is nothing. There is only her waiting to get the money to make the D final and legal. Maybe you had no idea what was going on inside her heart, it doesn’t make it any less real, it was real enough for her. So yes the PA is gut wrenching, I know this feeling like you would not believe, but it is ONE in a laundry list of things that have happened between the two of you.

“ I don't think that there is just an end to this process.”

You are absolutely right here. I am talking to my W I hope to get her back and all this is hard work. You know what I think though, if I am successful then the real work is going to begin, much harder than this. You took a small step on Thursday but that is all it was.

No I will say this so that I don’t sound like a hypocrite if I am ever faced with asking these questions on the board. I am all about the DB process; mind you DB is just a name the technique is what really works. They make sense and they are right on the money. In reality though what is the DB process? It a series of things that focus on what YOU can do for yourself and in the process you hope to win back your spouse but if you really worked on yourself then what your spouse has done or not done is a non factor. However when you work on yourself I don’t remember reading that you are to lose yourself, your morals, or your own self worth. I have my principles and I am all about winning back my W I want nothing more in the world than to win back my W but I will not become a shell of myself in the process because then the WAS will be me.

I hope this makes sense if it doesn’t then shoot back roll your sleeves up counselor I am all about batting the points back and forth. Actually I enjoy it.

[Lotus]

Maybe I seemed callous to you. I didn't mean to be. But the way I read your story, your wife took a lot of abuse from you. You turned her out of the house and your marriage long before she sought comfort from another man. Really, what did you expect her to do? She's young, attractive, and abused at home. When she tries to move on and have a new life, that makes her a cheater? And he's a predator? I see self-preservation written all over her actions.

As for your changes, that's great. You've been trying them out at home, and on this board, and being a great guy with your wife from a distance. And she has noticed the changes.

But all of that is rehearsal. You haven't done it for real, in the marriage, day in and day out yet. And that's where the rubber meets the road. The only changes that matter for repairing your marriage are the ones that she experiences. I have to agree with 2step. You've set the stage, you've done your rehearsal, and maybe you'll get the part in this show. The real work is yet to begin.

[zengypsy]

2 and I have talked about this. All the changes you have made are obviously great and they are always fresh in your head. It's the application of the those changes are the hardest. It's behavior modification really. You have spent your whole life a certain way and it's not going to reverse itself in a short span of time.

My therapist kicked my a$$ for 8 mos and she said the same thing. Every session we delved deeper and deeper and put solution oriented plans in place vs. the negative ones I had before. Applying them was tested more than I thought they would on a daily basis. These changes will affect every relationship you have; work, friends etc. They are just not geared towards your M. It's good tho, because it helps you stay focused on all that hard work. Backsliding is just part of the process. But the bigger picture is knowing that all this hard work is paying off for YOU and you can catch yourself more and more frequently when you feel you might be slipping too much.

Plus you have all of us here to kick your butt!!

[dbmod]

Denver,

I have had very limited time lately and it will be worse in the next week. But I just popped in and read your latest of the last days.

Few people are so honest. I am humbled by your honesty, and I'm sure many folks reading this are as well. So many read that never post. You are changing lives as you reveal your walk.

Few people can admit their own real faults and actions. And we all have them. Everyone. Our behaviors get really ugly sometimes.

Your raw honesty and your wife's and your slow steps have the best chance of creating a more beautiful relationship than either you or your wife can imagine.

So just checking in to say thank you and that I'm praying for you.

[what next?]

One of my most prized possessions is this antique charcoal painting of Socrates. The scene is just after he has drank the poison that will end his life. The guards are at the door making sure that he carries out his sentence. you can't really tell in this pic but the expression of dissapointment on his face is so perfect.

http://img263.imageshack.us/i/socratesn.jpg/

[Denver_2010]

Sandi and True are hitting the nail on the head about the OW you've been "friends" with. My husband had these "friends" for most of our marriage, and it had quite a hand in destroying me and our marriage.

My question for you and the vets - is it possible for someone like my H to move beyond needing these other people in your marriage?

Will my H ever wake up to this like you have? I think he sees his need for the OW as an indicator we shouldn't be married, and we'll never get the chance to work through this. Reading this has really ripped open some old wounds for me.

Sorry to hijack. If anyone wants to respond on my thread it would be greatly appreciated. Good luck to you Denver, it sounds as though you are making headway.

No worries about the hijack Nic. I don't mind anyone's questions being put on my thread. It usually helps me too! And venting is okay too!

No, I did not take your post the wrong way Nic. Actually, it was helpful to me in getting a female's perspective on this issue.

First, yes, Sandi and Truegritter usually do hit the nail on the head when it comes to this stuff! Sandi was absolutely right about MY friends who are women, who were not also friends of my M.

I think that I need to be clear about that as it relates to my sitch. I never had any A's with any of these women. They are/were just friends. A couple of them were exgfs though.

This was mainly a problem very early in my R with my W. After we had been dating for a year or so, she expressed some discontent about these friendships. I basically told her that I was an individual and therefore had a right to have any friend that I wanted regardless of their sex. I told my W, gf at the time, that she was being insecure.

As time went on, these friendships became less and less. I just grew distant from these particular female friends. Unfortunately, the real problem had already been created. Bc I wasn't able to respect my W's feelings at that very early stage in our R, it became a 'wound' in that R going forward and ultimately in our M. It really came down to my W feeling that I didn't respect her feelings.

Yes, there was also a trust issue that related to having these female friends. But that was in conjunction with some other things that I did that were disrespectful... going to strip clubs on occasion, making my W feel that SHE was not good enough for me etc. So all of this together with the female friends issue created the trust issues.

But, I have never actually cheated on my W. I don't know if I'd even call these friendships EAs bc I wasn't really emotionally intimate with any of these female friends. They were people that I would go out for drinks with in a GROUP setting, on occasion, and talk about work and life in general. I hurt my W's feelings bc I would not include her in on these friendships.

Can your H change? Yes, he CAN. He is capable. Will he? I can't answer that Nic. I can tell you that he most likely will NOT change if or bc he is forced to change. Most people don't like being forced to do anything.

My guess is that change will come for your H only if and when he WANTS that change himself.

For me, my motivation to change has been my W leaving me. The devastation that I felt when this happened caused me to really look at the things that I did to my W... both early in our R and during the M itself.

I'm still working on it, but I can tell you that if my W and I reconcile, that my W will be a part of ANY and ALL friendships that I have going forward.