The Moment of Clarity

[Truegritter]

brilliant ^^^^ FOBD

Today, you have been given a "shift." This is a term I picked up from my C. Do you know what that is? It is a "gift" wrapped in "sh*t." Once you are able to peel through the horrible wrapping, you are able to reach the real gift inside.

especially this.

[Denver_2010]

So... if you had to tell me the best piece of advice you have gotten or learned during this process, what would it be?

In no particular order:

1)"You have to ask yourself if you want be 'right', or if you want to be 'happy'"

2) "FORGIVENESS IS OUR WAY OUT OF HELL"

3) "One of the best DB 'techniques' is REAL GIVING. Giving your partner the gifts....emotional or otherwise....that makes them happy. Filling what's important in their heart."

4)'Time is precious...So is a Marriage...And ...Vows to love someone, in good times and in bad, for better or worse...This is the bad and the worse...You must figure out where YOU come out on all this."

5) "keep the road home paved and smooth"

6) "For now, your role in her fantasy play is that of evil villan. She needs that to justify her behavior. Try your best to stay off the stage."

7) "Believe none of what your spouse says and 50% of what you see from them. They are hurting and thinking as well, if they weren't they wouldn't be human."

8) "The way I got through that period was I saw my W as one of those crazy homeless people that you see sometimes muttering to themselves. After that, nothing she did or said really bothered me. I just tsked tsked it and chose to be happy."

9)"Think about the easy thing to do (let her go) and the right thing to do (work on your marriage)...what's right often is not easy."

10) "Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing to do. But to hold it together when everyone would understand if you fell apart,that's true strength"

11) "OM are lifeboats. they're not in it for the long haul. patience..."

12)" Pretend like your wife is a squirrel...A squirrel?..Yes a squirrel...You want to give her a nut. Not a pile of nuts. A nut. You say 'Here little squirrel here's a nut.' And hold the nut out until she comes to get it...Ok...And don't jump up and down and say 'Hey squirrel over here! I have a nut for you!'...Yeah...You'll scare the squirrel away. But you have to keep giving her a nut, one nut at a time...Ok. My wife is a squirrel. I think I understand."

13)


THE TEMPTATION IN THE FACE OF COMPLETE REJECTION

It is that bargaining process between who you are. YOUR character. VS the EGO or self preservation.

Someone is doing things to you... so naturally you blame them and ask yourself why would I do this for them?

The tempatation is to leave the process...to leave your decision to stand. To leave or try to control your spouse. To attach outcomes to your decision to stand.

This is the step I was missing!

IMO standing is an essential part of the healing process of the LBS. You will constantly questions this throughout. At least I have up to this point.

You will ask yourself questions like "WTF am I doing this for this person?"

In the beginning we want answers.

Why did this happen?

How could they do this?
Who am I?
What do I believe in?
What do my vows mean to me?
Why do I hurt?

And the BIG ONE...

What is it about ME that made them leave?

IMO you don't get answers unless you choose to take the hard road, STAND, and go on the journey.

At first you tend to look at it as a quid pro quo- I am willing to do this for a while until I see some progress. IOW you do it EXPECTING some outcome ...

As time goes on and your expectations aren't met you question again...

It is all part to of the journey. You may even have trouble articulating why you are doing this to other people or yourself.

Then you start to look inside....

Then you start to see who YOU are...

Then you realize that this is part of YOU

What you have chosen is part of YOU and your character. So what began out of a search for answers for why and what is wrong with you. Out of hurt for what someone did to you...

You see it all has to do with who YOU are. The best part of who YOU are and then...

It is no longer about what THEY choose or why.

It is about YOU.

I have been trying to figure out what is the source of
my wanting to escape,
my anxiousness,
my dread
my fear.

And it is the WHAT IF?

the conditions I place on my life.

What IF W doesn't come back THEN?
What IF I stand and W doesn't want M THEN?
What IF I make this decision THEN What?

If I place conditions/exceptions to my life then I compromise my life.

When I took my vows did I mean: I will love you all the days of my life, BUT if you get so scared and lose your way then I won't?

It's those damn BUTs! I am stuck because of BUTs

I am paralyzed because of BUTs.

I know what I need to kill now.

When I get up with fear and anxiousness it's because of the fear of what may happen. I want to escape from that fear. The self doubt that creates it.

If you walk out into the world everyday with your truth then there is only...

What was (and you have learned from it)
What is (Your truth)
What is to come (through living your truth)

There is no regret.

No second guessing.

No doubt.

The only way to fail is to fail yourself.

Several of us, myself included, are moving through this journey and have encountered what I believe is a major sign post.

An essential step.

An understanding.

An awakening of sorts.

I am referring to that moment when one reconciles the dilemna of STANDING.

I have written already about the fact that as we begin this journey we decide to STAND.

We STAND because of what I will call BASE factors

We want our M back

We want our spouse to want us back

We want our spouse to see us as the more desirable option

We want to ease our own pain

We want our own self esteem back

We (may) want to punish spouse by appearing to be morally superior

We want ________ because we get _________ in return.

We STAND on these principles.

We communicate these principles and inevitably we meet with question and resistance.

From family, friends and

from ourselves.

Because it is hard for most people to imagine themselves making this decision.

It is a sacrifice of sorts at this stage.

We are looked on as victims of bad behavior, incongruent behavior to REAL LOVE.

So in that light we begin to feel like victims or that we are being taken advantage of in a sense and are perceived as such by the world. A DOORMAT if you will.

As time goes on and those who care about us begin to be more concerned about our mental and emotional health and question more emphatically why we choose to be a DOORMAT.

Or how long will you be a DOORMAT.

Then you begin to doubt yourself and your decision and the focus goes back to your beloved and now you look on them not with eyes of a scourned lover, a left behind, abandoned spouse, but with real scrutiny.

We begin to question why we would SACRIFICE our own happiness and endure such hardship to regain the love of a person who so obviously is not capable of the same for us or even anyone else.

It is then that the MIRACLE happens.

Through all the pain and seemingly fallow soil a sprout

of green punches through...

This growth is something new and it

is OURS, we planted it, we sowed it

For it is certain our seed was trampled upon many times before

it took root.

But it did take root and

it grows, upwardly reaching, toward the light.

The miracle is the love for yourself.

You are no longer the choices your spouse makes

You are no longer whether your M reconciles or not

You are no longer the failures you see in yourself

You are no longer a victim because only YOU can choose to be one.

Then you a FREE

Free to make the choice to STAND for YOURSELF.

This I believe can only be achieved through the decision to STAND in the first place.

Only through that decision can we experience the pain involved to know completely what it means to be free.

What is means to love.

What I am speaking of really is love.

This is a choice.

As we move through this journey it is a process of self discovery. The LBS starts out with a lot of hurt and pain and self doubt.

I have already written about this transition from standing out of wanting answers and pain- to doing it as a choice for you.

To get to this point you must have detached completely and also to get here some may decide to go black as you have suggested Time.

I did have to do that for a time.

The choice to love is really to put yourself at risk and we have suffered the greatest pain of that risk in the betrayal that was returned.

When I speak of the light going on and off I mean that those are the conditions. ANY conditions. ANY behaviors that we have let play out from our own fears and weaknesses. These are the things we find in OURSELVES that we want to change. That we MUST change to be who we want to be.

Who we want to be is the LIGHT I speak of. It must be constant and it must be consistent. It cannot be contingent on some suffering that cannot be endured. It cannot be contingent on some action or non-action of your spouse.

To love (as we know it) is to suffer until you see what love is. This is so much part of who I am that it cannot be separated.

Love is the absence of suffering. But that absence of suffering comes from your OWN choice not because:

your spouse decided to come back
or decided to be nice to you
Or wasn't mean to you
Or agreed with you
or stopped seeing OP
or ANY F@CKING THING.

It is YOUR choice

That is the light that shines.

That is the miracle of which I speak

If you can get to THAT place then you see that your spouse is on their journey and you love them enough to be committed to their growth.

That growth means you step out of the way. You completely let go with love.

If they call you.

Why would you not answer that call?

Only if you still suffer. If you suffer then you are not there yet.

My W will continue to suffer and be in pain. I will no longer be part of that. I choose rather to be part of the solution.

For me that means love of the most extraordinary variety.

For me that means to be the man I am now becoming.

[Denver_2010]

I want to thank everyone for the kind words after my update last night. The conversation that I had with my W was very, very difficult. There was A LOT of GOOD... but there was also A LOT of BAD. I am processing it and dealing with it.

I am in a place right now where I feel that I want to move forward with what I have been doing here. The reality is that in December and January, I already knew, deep down, that W was in R and PA with OM. When I came here initially, my goal was to wait that out bc I KNEW that I had a huge role in what had happened. My goal was to wait it out and then show my W that our M was worth another chance. BC I believe, still believe, that she is worth it.

I wept as I read this...First, I'm so sorry that you had to hear/face this truth. I know it was so painful. I've been there friend. But, here is the thing:

You sat w/love in your heart even after your W told you this and listened to her and understood her pain.

You choose to love her, your ss and want your marriage.

You confessed your part in the destruction of your "old" marriage.

Ya'll CAN come back from this Denver...

Thank you Dixie. I appreciate your kind words and your continued support. This was a very difficult, but good, conversation with my W.

I was hurt by confirming the truth... but it brought me some peace. I think that it may be the first step in healing my M.

You can be a better man, you can change and leave your old self behind. So, can your Wife....if you let her. She said to you, that she wanted to work on the M. But, even now she said to you only if your changes are real?? She is hurting too Denver. I do not believe for a moment that she does not feel guilt about her actions. She is just pushing those feelings down right now so she doesnt have to feel.

W and I need to have continued conversations. I don't believe that anything is guaranteed at this point even with my choice to forgive.

I agree that my W feels guilt. In fact, knowing my W like I do, I have no doubt.

Denver, you are the only one that can decide if you want to keep going on this path. Forgiveness is a powerful thing...resentfulness and anger will destoy you and your marriage. Agreed? It will prevent you from creating and growing anything new too.

Agreed.

I'm proud to know you Denver.

Thank you Jack. I am not so proud of my actions towards my W during our M. I hope to make myself proud going forward.

I hope that you will continue to help me get to that place where I CAN be proud of myself.

I know you're beating yourself up right now (you shouldn't - you've already been doing that for months!)... but remember to pat yourself on the back too. Not many men could have had the conversation you had last night and rised above jealousy and anger to show love. I think you did an amazing job.

Thanks Hope. Trust me... it was tough. I did okay. It wasn't all perfect. I do owe the success that I did have to DR and this forum...

You do have an opportunity here for peace, closure and moving forward with both of you forgiving your past mistakes, both of you changed, both of you still in love with each other and wanting to move forward.

I think so too.

So, does your W want to reconcile or does she want a D?

You should be proud of yourself Denver. I know that it's a hard time for you. We are all here for you. BITS/SITS are a force to reckoned with. You will don't have to go thru this journey alone.

Thanks Gypsy. To answer your question... W said in no uncertain terms that she "still loves [me]" and that she wants M to work if it is possible. However, there is doubt in her mind about my changes and the possibility that our M can be different than it was before.

Things could still go either way at this point. I still have work to do... I will always have work to do bc I NEVER want to become complacent about my M again.

I think however for guys like us the pain takes a special meaning. I don't mean that we suffer more or less than the next person but because we are men of huge egos, this news comes as a sword that pierces the soul. It is the all consuming thought. I know, because I have been there.

Thanks 2Step. YES, you are so very right here. My friends and I grew up with the attitude that the way to deal with stuff like this is by 'dealing' with the OM. That 'cheating' by a S or GF is simply unacceptable under any circumstances.

This is ego, pride and male bravado that I speak of. I have plenty of these things engrained within me. While I do condone any type of cheating under any circumstances, things are simply not as black and white as I thought in my youth.

I have to accept my role in this, bc I DID play a huge role in everything that has happened.

I have mentioned many times in my thread and in others that I have my deal breakers, this is it, this is the one thing I don’t think I can recover from. I say that and yet a part of me thinks that I love my W so much that just maybe I can recover from it. I don’t know.

One thing that I have learned by going through this process, is that no one knows how they are going to act, respond, or react to a given situation until and unless they are actually faced with that situation.

Like I said, this is not as black and white as I previously thought.

[Denver_2010]

I don't even know how hard those were to write, but I am so proud of you! I don't like the old Denver. I want you to paste your note somewhere where you can see it often so you make sure that you continue to kill any remnants of that old Denver. But, you have made some huge revelations and strides and we all love that Denver. I am just so proud of you.

Thank you LIS. Those words were hard to write. Unfortunately though, they are the truth.

I don't like the 'old' Denver either.

Ok, buddy, so the truth... I don't really hear mention of your W being all that religious. If that is, in fact, true, then in conventional thinking, she didn't really cheat on you. This indiscretion is not something for you to necessarily forgive, but something to move on from. You told her on a number of occassions to move on. You told her that it was over. And when you were done telling her, you showed her. Keeping friends like that with women is really not good. Keeping old e-mails and letters from x's is disrespectful. I say all of this not to hurt you.

If I were not committed to my vows and to God, I honestly feel as if I would be within my right to go see other people as he has told me and showed me on a number of occassions that it is over.

This is an interesting take LIS. One that I may be able to use to in my work to reconcile my feelings over my W's actions.

No, my W is not very religious. She was raised in a religious home, but has moved away from that during the course of her life. She had always wanted us to go to church, but I am even less religious than she is, so I resisted. With all of that being said, I know that with her religious upbringing, that she is struggling with this, and guilt. But this is not something that I plan to push her on.

I own my actions that helped lead my M to where it is today... And my W owns her actions. We will have to deal with the guilt that each of us feels individually... while we work together to fix what caused us to take those actions.

You have to understand that words hurt bad. Words in anger especially tear people down and we all need to be especially careful in those situations.

I didn't realize this until it was WAY too late LIS. The thing is, is that much of this occurred very early in our R... before we were M'd. I inflicted deep wounds to my W years ago.

I just didn't understand...

Sweetie, you have a huge opportunity here. I would not let this A get in the way of this, especially since she volunteered never to speak to OM again.

I sincerely hope that it is the opportunity that it seems. I think that my W is still conflicted and afraid.

As far as people sticking with you... are you kidding??? You stuck with all of us!!! And there are more than a few of us who probably have some confessions to make of their own. We are not perfect people. So the next big point is that you need to forgive yourself. If you don't, the guilt will eat you alive. You made mistakes, you are repenting. Stay THAT course.

You are such a great man and we are on YOUR side every minute of every day.

Again, thank you LIS. Your words never fail to lift my spirits.

And I never doubted that the BITS would stick with me!

[Denver_2010]

Thank you Gritter...

[Denver_2010]

Thanks for gift wrapped in sh!t analogy FOBD! Good stuff. And so VERY true. I do believe that, in the long run, everything that is happening will turn out to be a very precious gift...

but...

there is no doubt that it is sh!t right now.

BITS
Denver

[Denver_2010]

New thread:


http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2129589#Post2129589