I apologize for the length of this post...I've held this in for so long that I didn't know what to edit or when to end it...
I have no idea where to begin, so I'll start there, at the beginning...
My wife and I started our relationship when I was 16 and she was a week shy of 30. We worked at a supermarket together. At the time neither of us knew how old the other person was. She asked if I was in school, I said yes and she assumed I meant college. I asked if she was in school and her reply was that she had been done for a couple of years (me assuming she just graduated high school). The thought of being with an older woman was pretty cool for me. We went on our first date and things were amazing. She was beautiful, funny, smart and mature. There was chemistry from the start and the more time we spent together, the more both of us felt this was the beginning of something good.
After discovering our age difference, the fact that she had two kids from her first marriage (9 year old daughter and 7 year old son) and the fact that, while separated for the past 4 years, she was still married, we cooled for a while. The relationship with her husband was over. She had been living on her own the entire time after years of physical, emotional and sexual abuse (from ex-husband and father...her mother also had mental issues and left their family when my wife was 9). She wanted to get a divorce; however, didn't have the means. Married at a young age, and from a broken home herself, she had never gotten a driver's license, a phone, cable or any type of long term career prospects. She was a wreck.
Me, on the other hand, had a very privileged life. My parents have been married forever, had good jobs and were stable people. They put me into private school and were very active and present in my life. We weren't wealthy, just a very well rounded upper-middle class family living in the Heartland. I'm very spiritual and usually pray daily and attend worship service weekly. Our cooling didn't last long and my parents found out about the relationship. They met her and loved her immediately and offered to help her in any way possible to obtain a divorce. They could see that in spite of our age difference, there was something special with us. Our relationship progressed, she obtained her divorce...then got pregnant. I was 5 months shy of my 18th birthday. I graduated high school early and took a job so we could start our life together. Shortly after my 19th birthday I had worked my way up with a large company and was making a very decent living. She was able to stop working and stay home with our son and her two children from her previous marriage. We made the decision shortly there after to have another child and she became pregnant within a month of trying. We got married and there was bliss for a couple of years.
In 2001, I began to resent my wife. I had continued to grow in my career and had been offered numerous opportunities to advance in the company. These were six figure positions that I felt would only better our family and quality of life. My wife fought me. She was afraid that with my ambition, it would only be a matter of time before I took things a step farther and started looking for a new wife while I was exploring my career growth.
My behavior at the time was that of a good husband and father. I had also taken my responsibility as a step-father seriously and because their own dad wasn't in the picture at all, I treated them as my own, attending every school and sporting event. Everything was perfect, I thought, so I couldn't understand why my wife would feel this way.
My resentment turned into questioning why she would want to hold me back and if I really wanted to be with someone who didn't have the same long-term goals as I did. She spent a lot of years wondering if I would stick and so did I. She started questioning me and I denied it. I came from a strict Catholic background and the thought of divorce was seen as a failure. I thought that as I grew older my mind would grow to love her again and put the resentment behind.
Unfortunately, I just started treating her even worse. I would go to work, come home, play with the kids and then work some more from home. She became convinced I was having an affair and began accusing me of it every time we would have even the smallest disagreement. I continued to withdraw further. We went months without attending family functions because she couldn't stand to see me treat other people better than I treated her (and while, not able to admit it then, she was right). We fought about my siblings and my parents. We started to disagree on parenting, specifically with my step-kids. I never admitted to her that I just didn't know if she was what I wanted, but she felt it. This went on for years. She would get fed up and threaten to leave and get divorced. I would tell her all of the things she wanted to here to make her happy until she got over it (after reading these boards, I'm quickly realizing that my remedies weren't unique).
We had no friends, we did nothing outside the house and I continued to feel suffocated by her, but we always kissed and made up, sometimes for only a week or two, sometimes for months.
Fast forward to 3 years ago. I had finally achieved what I had wanted to with my career. I had started my own business in 2003 and it was going amazing. My wife had taken on a role with the company and was a huge part of the success. She was a different person with the kids now in school and her in the work force. We still struggled with her accusations of my infidelity (which were unfounded), but things were looking up in every aspect. We built out dream house, our oldest daughter started college with plans at becoming an MD (through all of our problems, we never brought the children in and they thrived beyond our wildest dreams), and I finally realized I had everything.
She wasn't so sure now. She always loved me, but had grown tired. I never told her how I felt and just assumed that with my new found outlook, she would see the changes in me and go back to the way she used to look at me. It didn't happen and I began to confront her all of the time. I'd would "nag" about the house not being perfect, the kids not wearing the right clothes, the way the dishes were loaded, and the way the toilet paper hung in the bathroom. Light switches should all be facing in the same direction, you should have used this word...I was a pain the rear. What made matters even worse was the way I treated her at work. I looked at it as if she was my subordinate and I was the boss. I didn't realize how my criticisms were affecting her. In my mind, I thought that if she would just do these things the way I want her to, I would have the perfect life that I thought we both wanted.
In late 2008, I she quit working with me and the business spiraled out of control. Initially I took the stance that since I had taught her the job, I could do it by myself. I failed and had to close the doors 7 months after she left. She started a new career path and was excited about the direction. I had no problem getting a new job with a large bank, but continued to resent her for quitting. Our income was about 20% of what it had been and we started to really struggle. In addition to all of these problems, I developed an addiction to Internet pornography that I hid from her (in recovery and doing very well with the help of my pastor, prayer and God's love). She eventually found out and decided the best thing to do was tell everyone. She told my parents, siblings, friends that we had just started making, etc. I was embarrassed and withdrew further from her.
Backing up a bit, I have to mention that I've only been with one other person in my life and can honestly say that I'm more on the conservative side when it comes to intimacy. I've opened up to her in that way in the past two years, but it was always a problem, even if the sex was satisfying for both of us. My wife had multiple partners before me. Initially, she had told me three; however, I later found out that it was 4, then 5, then six. Each time I found out there had been someone else, I freaked out. I questioned if I was satisfying her and didn't believe it when she told me I was.
2010 comes and we are getting along. We're finally getting back on track financially, the kids are still doing good, etc. (typical roller coaster). In May we were out with family and friends to see a relative play in a band at a local bar. I was talking to family and lost track of my wife for a few minutes. I eventually found her talking to another man and walked over to find out what who it was. She didn't even look at me, stop talking or acknowledge I was there. After about 3 minutes I went back to my table and stewed. Her conversation lasted another 10 minutes before she came over to me. She could tell I was upset and I asked her if we could go. I found out that the man she was talking to was one of the men she had been with before me. She tried telling me that it wasn't a big deal and they were catching up, etc. She also told me that it was nothing I hadn't done to her in the past. She told me there were many times in our marriage that she felt I ignored her when we were in public and wouldn't apologize. I did some checking and found out that she sent him text messages the next day. When I confronted her, she said she had no idea how he got her number and that he was apologizing for getting her in trouble with me.
To the best of my knowledge (I stopped checking our account on-line and hoped it was put to bed) they didn't have any more contact. I continued to question her about it, though and it pushed her away. She told me that she would never have an emotional or physical affair (and I also believed this). She said that sex was to intimate and impossible for her to have it without a relationship. We spent the rest of the year up and down until two days before Christmas.
We had a very small misunderstanding about classes I was attending for my new job. It boiled over and she left the bedroom. She told me that she wanted out and as soon as she could find a place she was leaving. This was something that I had heard before, but I knew it was worse and would take longer to get over.
I have never expressed emotions to anyone very well. She had told me that this bothered her and I just took it as another form of nagging. I always told her I loved her, but she says she never felt the love.
Throughout January I spent a lot of time getting my head together. We would have some talks, but most of the time it ended in arguments. I was starting to realize what my problems have been and wanted to make changes, but wouldn't without concessions on her part. I eventually called her bluff and asked if she wanted to discuss custody of our two children (now 12 and 10), and property division. To my surprise she did and we went through that painful process. She kept telling me that once she found a place, she was leaving. I still couldn't open up to her about how I finally saw what was wrong and just kept my distance, really believing that we would get past this. We went to family functions together, but were never in the same room and didn't talk. There were two times in January that we were intimate and it was great (the best that I can remember).
On Sunday, January 30th I had my break through. I asked her if we could talk and I opened up. I cried and apologized and told her that she was a great wife for the first 10 years of out marriage and I was a wrong to have kept her waiting, not knowing if I was going to stick. I told her that she had every right to be upset with me. I had constantly asked for forgiveness, but never repented. I would act the way she wanted so she would get over it and then fall back into my bad habits.
She was taken back and told me that while she could appreciate me finally doing this, it was to late. She was moving on. I asked about another man and she denied it. She said she had to work on herself and that she was looking forward to not having the uncertainty in her life. She told me she was going to look at an apartment after church the next weekend. I was crushed. I couldn't believe that I finally was willing to give her what she wanted and this was the reaction I got.
I started checking phone records again and found that she started texting the guy from the bar. When I confronted her about it, she told me that he has investment properties and she was looking for a place to live and nothing was going on. I spent all of last week telling her every night after work how I was feeling and begging for her to give me another chance (something I have never done). I cried, couldn't sleep or eat and was an overall mess. She said that she felt bad I was in pain, but my behavior was freaking her out and she was worried I had gone off the deep end. I couldn't believe that this woman who had loved me so much was finally going to get the love she had wanted her whole life and was rejecting it. I also started beating up on myself for not talking to her sooner.
I pulled myself together on Saturday to send her an e-mail (she wasn't willing to talk to me anymore). I laid it all out there and told her that this would be the last time I talk to her about it. The next move would be hers.
My son had a basketball tournament 45 minutes from our house that night. My wife refused to go, instead telling me that she was going to a movie with some girls from work and I would need to take my daughter. They were going to have dinner after the movie and she would be home by 10:30 or 11:00, Saturday night. My son was devastated. He cried on the way to the game and told me that he couldn't believe she would skip his game for a movie.
We got home from the game, the kids went to bed and I watched tv. By midnight I was concerned and called my wife. No answer. I sent her text messages asking her to just let me know that she's ok. No response. I checked her facebook page and saw that her friend had said how she was looking forward to the movie, but our bank account didn't show a charge. I thought maybe her friends paid for her and that maybe she had just had to much to drink and decided to stay there, but was upset that she didn't have the courtesy to let me know. I couldn't sleep and at about 4:00 am I started thinking about the possibility of her being with the other man. I checked the phone records on-line and saw that she had called him earlier in the day and sent multiple text messages when she was supposed to be in the movie. I called my mom and asked her to come and be with the kids in case I wasn't back before they woke up and went to the other man's house 15 minutes away. Her car wasn't there, but was parked a few streets over. I went back to the other man's house and parked a ways down the street. I called my brother, who was the only one aware of what was going on with my feelings. He told me to leave. That there would be a confrontation and I could get into trouble. I held my ground about staying because I didn't want her to be able to deny it. I ended up leaving to go back to her car, my brother showed up where I had been and called to tell me he just saw them walk out of the house together. I was devastated. He dropped her off in an alley and slinked up to her car where I confronted her. I called her a liar and a cheater and other names and told her I couldn't believe she would do this to our family. Her only response was, "I told you I was done".
I talked to our pastor in between services about coming to our house to speak with the kids about us being over, but he convinced me I needed to let the dust settle. I had been up for days and needed sleep and clarity and to talk wife my wife before we spoke to the kids.
She called me shortly there after and told me she wanted to come home and be left alone, but I insisted in speaking with her later that night. I took the kids to my brother's house and we watched the Super Bowl, then went home to talk to her.
She said she was sorry for hurting me, but not sorry for what she did. She said, initially, that it was the only thing she could think of doing to get me to understand that she was ready to move on. The next day she confessed that there is a connection with this guy because he makes her feel good, but she doesn't want to have a relationship with him. This contradicts everything she's ever told me about how she feels about sex and what her morals and beliefs are on the matter. She had always said that in the event she wanted out, she would get out and then start a relationship.
I told her that I understood how I had pushed her into this affair, which she still claims is not an affair since she told me she was done trying with us. I told her that I believed in God's forgiveness as long as it's accompanied by repentance and that we could still work through this to salvage our marriage. I told her that our pastor and his wife wanted to sit down and talk to us about putting God in the center of our relationship and making things work. Initially she said she would go, then she said she'd go alone, then not at all.
Monday night we had a good conversation and she thawed, but still wasn't wiling to talk to anyone about it and through our phone records, I see that she's still in contact with the other man through calls and text messages. I've told her that she has been the love of my life and while I won't accept the possibility of us not reconciling, I would leave her be. She seemed appreciative of this and thawed somewhat. I asked if she would be willing to not have any more overnight visits with the other man until she did in fact move out and explained that I lack the capacity to lie to our kids about where she is. She would not agree to this and I left it alone. When I told her of what I knew about this man (vehicular homicide conviction, two divorces and multiple judgements of foreclosure and an overall scum bag) and that I didn't ever want my children with him she agreed whole-heartily.
Last night I asked her how her day was and she asked how mine was. I told her it was nice to just talk with her and she said that it was better than fighting, but not to pressure her tonight. We said goodnight and that was the last meaningful conversation other then her asking me to take the kids to school. My pastor has asked me to continue to pray and ask for an opening in her heart. Ask for the strength to stop checking the phone records (something I've been obsessive about for the past 72 hours) and to be with me in this time of grief.
So there it is...
Here are the first of I'm sure many questions:
1. I have a business meeting next week and will be out of town for 3 nights. I'm terrified of her bringing the other man to my house while I'm gone and the kids are there. Should I talk to her about this?
2. She has asked me to contact some of my business partners who own rental properties to see if anything would work for her. I'm hesitant to do this because I don't want to help facilitate her leaving. Should I make the calls.
3. Did she cheat? If she has explained to me that she is done and wants to move on, is she cheating on me?
4. Do I say anything about her continuing to have contact with this man?
5. She plans on moving out on the 1st of March. While she hasn't told me how she's going to do this (moving company or what). I'm worried about her wanting this guy to help her move, which would bother me.
In closing, I'm very thankful I've found these forums. Reading what other people are going through isn't solving all of my problems, but does help to know that there are others going through the same things I am. Any responses and advice is welcome.
Jason
M-30 W-44 STEP DAUGHTER-23 STEP SON-21 SON-12 DAUGHTER-10 TOGETHER-14 YEARS MARRIED-11 YEARS BOMB-1/30/2011 PA DISCOVERED2/5/2011
Welcome to the place no one wants to be in but everyone is glad they found. I will read through the post tonight and will respond soon. Just wanted to reach out and let you know you are not alone, we are here with you.
Again sorry you are here, but I agree it is a good place to vent, and ask advice.
Also, can you update your "signature" in your profile to list your age and your wifes age as well as length of the relationship and the marriage?
First you need to take your focus off of her, and look at what things you can do to improve yourself - make yourself happy (GAL).
You need to detach (really difficult when you live together) make her curious, make her pursue you. Avoid any further R talk unless it is initiated by her. Even if/when this occurs avoid be argumentative by listening and validating what she says (not simply agreeing with her - let her know you hear her and understand what she is saying)
As for your questions:
1. I think you should say nothing, you already expressed to her that you don't want this "scumbag" around your kids.
2. I would make the calls, but not advise her of the results immediately. As I am starting to find in my R, it's not always bad thing to "go along" with their plans. It may actually cause them to doubt themselves.
3. It seems obvious to me that she did cheat based on what you described, but it's only as relevant if that is a "boundry" that you cannot get passed. Is it a deal breaker for you if she cheated or can you get past it and forgive her?
4. As long as she lives with you, I would advise her that you don't approve of her carrying on any extra-marital R's. I think you already told her that. I don't care "what she thinks" though, about the fact that she is done.
5. Don't worry about it now.
BITS SIC
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
Things didn't go well last night. W and I have been staying apart for the past few days, communicating mostly by text message (not about R, just kids, dinner, etc.), but still living in the same house.
She was going to be home about an hour before me, so I asked if she wanted to wait for dinner or get something sooner. While waiting for a response, my brother called me and asked if I wanted him to take our S12 and D10 to McDonalds. I told him that since I hadn't heard from W, to go ahead. Shortly after this, W responds that she'll pick something up instead of waiting...and what would I like her to get me.
When I told her what the kids were doing, she became upset and said she'd get something for herself. After getting home I asked why she was upset and she told me that she didn't want to hear my brother or SIL's names anymore. She has been very upset that they haven't tried to reach out to her since all of this came out (she told them both what was going on, I told them to stay and I'd handle it).
I didn't mention in my original post that both of her parents have passed away and has only a brother and sister 4 hours from where we live. She's always considered my family hers and has felt very alone not having anyone to talk to.
I tried to explain that everyone still loved her, in spite of her making it known to my entire family her intentions to move out. She disagreed and I told her it was better not to talk anymore tonight.
My pastor called to check on things and I went into my bedroom to speak to him. When I came out she asked me who I was talking to and said I was a hypocrite (basically saying that I was against her PA, but was starting my own). I told her that I'd be happy to compare phone records with her and assured her that my conversations and text messages to other people were all in an attempt to save our marriage. My point struck a chord and she immediately started talking about the OM, which set me off. I totally blew it. I yelled and called her names (specifically about her PA and how she was being a bad mother) and she retaliated by telling me how much better this OM was at satisfying her and she was planning on spending time with him this weekend being intimate. I was crushed once again, but realize I brought it on myself.
Later that night she sent me text messages saying that she was switching her cell phone service so I couldn't check up on her. That the OM made her feel good about herself and she wouldn't stop the R with him. I didn't respond until she asked me to stop speaking to family member (first cousin's husband that I was going out to lunch with today) about our relationship. We share common interests in music, religion and politics and he's been divorced before so knows the ropes. She said that he understood her and my talking to him was just to ruin their relationship. She needed people and I should be ashamed of myself for trying to come between that. I could tell she was hurt, so I sent the family member an email and bcc'd my W. I told him that as much as I appreciated his love, support and prayers and willingness to help me, the chances of me unloading everything and painting her in a poor light was something I didn't want to do. I told him that I loved her and had caused her enough pain. I asked him to continue to pray for both of us.
About an hour later I heard my W sobbing outside our bedroom. When I checked on her she seemed out of it. She had been drinking and I found that she had taken some sleeping pills. She kept saying how rotten her life was and that she had no one. All she ever wanted was for me to love her. I told her I was worried about her and asked if she was ok physically. She went into the spare bedroom she's been staying in but left the door open. I followed her, sat on the bed and rubbed her back and she didn't stop me. She talked about how sorry she was for hurting me with the OM, but just wanted to feel loved and that's what he did for her. She was afraid that I would try and take the kids away from her. And then the dagger, that there was no hope for us. She said that no matter how hard I tried, she would never be able to look at me the same way. I cried and told her I could make her happy. I told her I've changed and have finally been able to open up to her and others. I told her that I forgave her for the PA and could see what I contributed to her making that decision. I did basically everything I'm not supposed to do, based on what I've read here. She let me hold her until she settled down and didn't pull away when I kissed her hands and forehead. She said she wanted to pretend that tonight had never happened and wake up tomorrow and be the best parents that we could be.
This morning, it was back to the new normal. I've been pretty good the past few days about not checking the phone records, but this morning and early afternoon, I've done it 5 or 6 times. There was nothing to or from the other man since Tuesday, but she reached out to him today after I left for work (she took a personal day). I feel that all I did last night was push her closer to him, but was holding out hope that she sent him the "I can't do this with you, I need to work on my marriage" text...he hasn't responded and I know that it's wishful thinking, but much better than the alternative...
Please pray for me. Please pray for my wife and ask God to open her heart to our marriage.
Jason
M-30 W-44 STEP DAUGHTER-23 STEP SON-21 SON-12 DAUGHTER-10 TOGETHER-14 YEARS MARRIED-11 YEARS BOMB-1/30/2011 PA DISCOVERED2/5/2011
