Not Counting Chickens Yet...

[hope2011]

I wish to God, I could get you to talk to my mom. Your story and hers are so very similar it is frightening.

Tell me she found a great guy and is blissfully happy now? Give Hope some hope here, LIS!

Hope, you wouldn't last a second in a convent, so I would hold off on those vows. You have goals and dreams that do not involve the convent.

True. Yeah, they probably frown upon wanting kids and that whole celibacy thing would be a problem. I'm 37, in my prime.

Has your past beaten you down so much that you've gotten to the point that you don't trust yourself anymore?

My past, men, myself. I have a big problem with beating myself up a lot. I go from trying to appear strong so others don't think I'm weak and I'm not a target to wearing my heart on my sleeve and then blasting myself for doing it. Yes, I've been in C. I can analyze myself very well! I just can't trust myself.

Did your first H and you begin having problems when you lost your son?

No, it was just the last straw. He was sick a long time, we were apart a lot because of that (me at the hospital, him working) for years. We were young. Completely different in so many ways. We never really talked, ever. There were no deep discussions, sharing our souls, etc. Not to sound condescending at all but I'm very smart, have a high IQ, took college courses in HS and had a 4.0 GPA, an over-achiever. XH took woodshop, basic classes, etc and made B's and C's. I didn't care, neither did he, when were dating, etc. But as you grow older you realize that you need someone who you can talk to, share things with, be on the same level with. I wanted to talk a lot about deep stuff, I wanted a big career, etc - XH wanted a simple life, a wife who didn't talk 24/7, etc. Both are good lives but they didn't mesh. I felt held back (I missed out on pre-med when our son was born sick). XH felt I pushed him too hard, wanted too much out of life. I was wanting middle-class, he was wanting whatever life threw at us as good enough. Funny how my H now says we want different lifestyles... karma biting me in the @$$. XH cheated on me when we were engaged, I didn't find out until 2 weeks before he left, when he confessed all his sins to "work on the marriage". He left me for an OW during the marriage and we separated for 6 months. She didn't want him, told him to go home (they never met, it was an on-line EA) and I thought he was faithful physically, but didn't know he had another OW in that period. We separated a few times during the 10 yr marriage, I was no angel either during the separations. There were many times I wanted out too, times I said we were done. At 22, I was so immature that I had a PA to get back at XH for leaving me. I excused it because we were "separated". Even though we were dealing with life and death daily and very, very mature when it came to taking care of our son... emotionally, in our marriage, we were such immature children. I was 17, he was 18 when we got married. We were each other's first everything. We hadn't dated other people before, we hadn't emotionally matured through dating and having our hearts broken, etc that most do before they settle down. We tried to play house and did a very bad job of it.

So to sum it up... no, it wasn't just our son. He was probably the glue that held us together for so long. We both messed up. By the time I woke up and grew up a bit and wanted to save it, he was gone. I grew up a whole hell of a lot in those 2 years of DB. I needed to.

So confession day on the old DB board today, huh? I have one of my own, which probably isn't much of one to some of you. I was very, very active here for those 2 years I DB'd 10 years ago. I know some of you old-timers and you've probably recognized me because of my posts about my XH and my son. But I was such an immature basket case then and made so many DB mistakes (including dating a fellow DB'er, who when we broke up was so vengeful that he contact my XH and the OW and gave them the URL to all my posts here so Michele had to delete everything I had ever posted to protect me). I didn't want all that to cloud who I am now and this marriage and trying to DB my H that I didn't want to post who I am. It's embarrassing. And I would have to admit that in my last marriage, I had PA's. I was that woman, the WAS who woke up too late and tried to DB after her H cheated on her. I'm ashamed of who I was then, of all the mistakes I made. I would never, in a million years now, even think about a PA or EA and am even so judgmental as to condemn silently those who do. And I'm ashamed of what a hypocrite I am too.

But I know that DB won't ever work and I'll never really change me if I'm not honest about who I am, who I was.

String me up but please don't give me DB advice based on the little girl I was 10 years ago in my 20's, but based on the woman I've tried to become now. Because they are 2 completely different people and it took me a long time, a lot of tears and losing everything to change. I don't want to revisit who I was before, I can't.

[lostinscared]

Hope, she is blissfully happy. I assure you that. But that didn't happen until she was comfortable in her own skin. Until she could gain the confidence from within instead of outside herself. I suppose that is why I am just so glued on the fact that you don't trust yourself. Now, I understand many of us don't right now. But there is a difference. In my gut, I know my husband had an A. I can't prove it. I waver on it sometimes and I justify it for him sometimes. But I know it in my gut. Denver, same thing. Couldn't prove a thing, but he knew it in his gut. He found out he was right. But you cannot tell me what your gut is feeling right now and that just bothers me.

Then something else... you say that you try to prove yourself tough and then wear your heart on your sleeve at other times. Those are not mutually exclusive things. Who are you trying to prove what to? You can be tough and you can be sensitive, both at once. In your core, though, who are you really? I have a guess... it comes out in your posts...

Wow. Big confession day for everyone. Hope, people change and you did too and if anyone strings you up for past behavior they'll have to get through quite a few of us. I'm not worried about mistakes you made in the past. And I don't think you should be ashamed.

As I piece my way through my conversation with you, I'm starting to realize something... I think you might have a gut instinct about your H right now. I've been wrong before, so you won't hurt my feelings if you tell me I am again. But, Hope, put it all away. Put away the thoughts of wanting another child. Put away thoughts of a 2nd failed M (I struggle with that one too). Put away thoughts of having to start all over again. Put away thoughts that your answer will change anything. I even want you to put away thoughts of your boundaries.

What is your gut telling you?

Oh, honey, I'm sending you big hugs and lots of prayers. I really hope that you are having a good day today!!! You deserve it!!!

LIS

[hope2011]

My gut says he cheated or even still cheating. That all these red flags aren't appearing without cause. That any idiot can see he's cheating and only a fool would make excuses for him. That his nonchalance about my pain over the panties and the dating site and his lack of apology shows how little he respects me. That he really doesn't care about me. That his sudden happiness and attentiveness to me in December was bought on only by his ego boost of having other women talk to him and him trying to cover up his indiscretions by being kind to me. That his working so hard now, after 2 years of not caring about me is a big red flag. He went from amazing when we were dating to a complete, selfish jerk once we got married and not back to amazing suddenly after joining a dating site. In my gut... I don't see him happy with me, in love with me, wanting me. I see a guy getting his happiness from some other source and it overflowing onto me.

But in all this I changed too. I went from whiny, unappreciative, disrespectful, complaining, nagging to DB'ing in the past 2 months. I changed too.

So how do I know?

This is where I need R talks. This is where our communication problems (because I'm scared to rock the boat) is eating at me. Not knowing, not really talking... I feel really disconnected from him. I have major walls up even while I DB and act as if.

My gut is saying he's going to break my heart and shatter my world. But my gut is also saying... isn't that what all men do eventually?

My gut has a freaking ulcer.

[hope2011]

Thank you, LIS... I was really scared to post everything. Thank you for being so nice and so supportive. I really, truly appreciate it.

[lostinscared]

There it is... there is the dam that I wanted to burst. Sorry, sweetie, but it really HAD to come out.

TRUST YOUR GUT. People are going to tell you different. People are going to try to assuage you by telling you that you could be wrong. And frankly, you could be. I could be wrong about my sitch. But, if I lose faith in myself, if I can't trust myself, then I truly have lost everything.

All people hurt people. This is true. But, Hope, you are not happy right now and you haven't been for awhile. I don't mean you're not happy because the situation is bad, you're not happy because you don't like who your husband is right now and you haven't for awhile. And instead of seeing the situation for what it is... Instead of just coming to terms with the facts that you laid out above, for some reason, you've decided to turn the gun on yourself??? You decide because he is not being a good husband and because you have had some bad relationships or made some bad choices, this must be what you deserve or you must not be reading the situation correctly or there must be something wrong with you. And sweetie, that's JUST NOT TRUE.

Now, I need to put this in context here. I'm not saying to leave him. I am not saying that continuing on with the program is not the right thing to do. But I want you to do these things with your eyes wide open. And with your eyes wide open, you need to deal with the fact that your gut is telling you he's cheating. So what's your next move?

My gut told me that my H is cheating and I can move on from that. I cut off all sexual contact with him prior to the breakdown and I just get what happened. Many, many women would not agree with me. And that's cool. They don't get to be me so I'm not worried about what they think.

And you, you need not worry about what I think, what the other ladies think, what the BITS think, what your H thinks, what your family thinks... you need to be concerned about what YOU think and what YOU want. Then after you decide that, then decide how YOU are going to get it.

Hope, I wish so much to be there to hold your hand and give you a big hug because you really are fighting so hard and I really see how much you are trying to change. You need to be so proud of yourself for that. We are proud of you. It's time to think now. Quiet your mind and start thinking...

I'm praying for you and I'm praying for your peace.

LIS

[dixiegal]

Hope,

I've been reading your stich....

You remind me of myself a few years back...still that way to a degree.

But, here is the thing...you have these huge walls up to protect yourself. So, you don't get hurt. But, darling take it from me the girl who was the head of the construction site on those walls!!! You end up missing the good stuff too! You wake up one day and parts of life have past you by. Parts you cant get back....

So, you gotta open yourself up to really live. Getting hurt is part of life. Though, we don't like it at all. GOD didnt promise us a life free of pain and sorrow. I want for you to have a full life darling HOPE w/no big walls up.

It's gonna be real hard but, tackle one wall at a time...you can do it. It will change you I promise but, instead of waking up to a moments lost. You will wake up with a new sense of self and urgency to live life!!!

Im in your corner we all are!!!

"Life is short, pray hard!"

Dixie

[hope2011]

All people hurt people. This is true. But, Hope, you are not happy right now and you haven't been for awhile. I don't mean you're not happy because the situation is bad, you're not happy because you don't like who your husband is right now and you haven't for awhile. And instead of seeing the situation for what it is... Instead of just coming to terms with the facts that you laid out above, for some reason, you've decided to turn the gun on yourself??? You decide because he is not being a good husband and because you have had some bad relationships or made some bad choices, this must be what you deserve or you must not be reading the situation correctly or there must be something wrong with you. And sweetie, that's JUST NOT TRUE.

Now, I need to put this in context here. I'm not saying to leave him. I am not saying that continuing on with the program is not the right thing to do. But I want you to do these things with your eyes wide open. And with your eyes wide open, you need to deal with the fact that your gut is telling you he's cheating. So what's your next move?

Wow, you gave me a good shake of reality. I know I needed it.

I don't know what to do or where to go from here. I know I can wish all I want for this to all have been a bad dream but H is who he is. I just don't know who that is. You're right, I don't like the man I married as a person. But now the man I dated is back. Which one is real? That's my indecision.

[lostinscared]

See, Hope, that's your decision not your indecision. If this guy sticks around, then you stay. If not, you have some decisions to make. The whole time you have been dealing from the mindset that you are the one auditioning for the part of his W. But really, he is also auditioning for the part of your H.

You can't have all of this answered right now. Just like the rest of our spouses, you need to wait and see if his changes stick. If they do, then great. If they don't, then you make your decisions.

BUT you are not indecisive. You know what you want. You are just not sure if he can deliver.

But, if he cannot deliver, this does not make you a bad person. That is a reflection on him. You are making changes that are good for you. That is ALL you can do. Be happy with who YOU are. If he decides in the end to go back to being a jerk or to cheating, that is a reflection on HIM not YOU. But when you say you do not what to do or go from here. That is not true. You know exactly what to do. You keep DB'ing and you wait for the answers to come. And they will, that we can all be assured of.

And for goodness sake, put that gun away and stop aiming at yourself. You are way smarter than you allow yourself to believe. And your instincts are just fine. And you're not broken. You are going through a very rough period in your life, that's what it is. You need to give yourself a break!

Big hugs for you Hope. I am praying for you. I am praying for your peace. My God, after everything you've gone through, you deserve it!

[hope2011]

Hope,

I've been reading your stich....

You remind me of myself a few years back...still that way to a degree.

But, here is the thing...you have these huge walls up to protect yourself. So, you don't get hurt. But, darling take it from me the girl who was the head of the construction site on those walls!!! You end up missing the good stuff too! You wake up one day and parts of life have past you by. Parts you cant get back....

So, you gotta open yourself up to really live. Getting hurt is part of life. Though, we don't like it at all. GOD didnt promise us a life free of pain and sorrow. I want for you to have a full life darling HOPE w/no big walls up.

It's gonna be real hard but, tackle one wall at a time...you can do it. It will change you I promise but, instead of waking up to a moments lost. You will wake up with a new sense of self and urgency to live life!!!

Im in your corner we all are!!!

"Life is short, pray hard!"

Dixie

I want to do that, have that life. But I don't feel safe to do that now.

[hope2011]

LIS, thank you. I'm watching a movie with the boys, trying to type on a blackberry so can't respond to everything right now. But thank you for saying things to me that no one ever has. God bless you.