I agree with what Mach posted about why to kill the demons that keep us from trusting.
It is something I still struggle with from time to time. It will bite you in the butt time and again, in a future R with your spouse, or with someone else, if you don't...
You have to really be willing to be honest with yourself about things though or you will never get to that healthy place.
My story, is no better or worse than yours or anyone else's (although you may be sitting there going "Thank God I am not her", I might be if I was reading it...)
My point, is simply that anything can be worked through and overcome within yourself, with the right perspective.
Justification, simply, doesn't work for me anymore. Killing those demons, does.
Thanks, cat. I think killing the demons that cause mistrust is something that I want to seek. By my actions, I hope that my wife follows that lead.
Personally, my email and cellphone is transparent to my wife. She knows all of my passwords for everything. She has always kept her email password from me and cell phone locked. In a perfect world down the line, I hope the trust and transparency will open that up. I may be talking may ahead of myself, because I think that is way down the road if it works out for the best.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
I think killing the demons that cause mistrust is something that I want to seek. By my actions, I hope that my wife follows that lead.
One more thing Sparks, and I don't want you to feel like I am hammering you on the head all the time....
Do this, because it is who you are, not to "show" her anything...
I'm pretty sure you will, I just want you to remember that you kill the Demon from his loneliness...
Thanks again, Mach. GAL. I am a provider by nature. It will be difficult to change that.
I had a few thoughts about the emails being introduced during therapy. My recent thoughts.
1. I am sure my wife read through them last night to figure out exactly what I know from those emails. As destructive as those emails were, I still took the higher road and showed her this love and compassion and a willingness to make it work. Not sure many would do that based upon what was written in the heat of that affair.
2. The affair and the emails can now be put in the past in my mind. I will not ask questions regarding the OW or the details of the affair. Wife probably understands now that I know many of the details. The emails are also in the past. Put them behind us and only look towards the future. Detach as many of you have told me. Think positive about the future and not dwell on the hurt from the past.
3. Now that the emails are in the open, there is no reason to hide. Honesty from here on out. Transparency may be asking to much at this moment, but I hope it will get there. No more petty lies. There have been a few in the last week that my wife told me to my face that I would not have known if I had not read the emails. Emails are over. Dishonesty is over. We start fresh. Honest.
I am sure wife somehow feels deceived that I invaded her privacy regarding reading her email in the manner that I did. I still at this time find it was justified due to my suspicions and the fact, that my wife was taking my son to stay with OW for days at a time without notice. Yes, I betrayed her. Some will say, the betrayal of the affair itself weighs heavier, others will say a lie is a lie. At this point, I am willing to approach it slowly to get over both as long as there is remorse both ways. Time will only tell.
Thanks all for you advice. I wish sometimes that I could pay this community instead of my therapist (which I do like).
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
After looking over my three points concerning the emails, I am wondering how my wife will respond. Possible responses:
1. Yes you deceived me. I don't care if you took high road. That was my property and those were my private emails.
2. If I tell her there is a copy of the emails in a safe place for my protection that I hope to burn with her in the future, how could she believe that I am putting the emails behind us? By putting the affair behind us with it, is that healthy? Would part of the rebuilding and reconciliation process require that the affair be talked about in the future?
3. Yeah you know about the details in the email, but you have no idea about x, y , and z. There is still a ton you don't know that I will keep from you.
Sorry to play devil's advocate in my head. I am just debating bringing these three points to couples therapy in order to start the healing of the betrayal from both ends. I understand it will take time, but I am also a problem solver (I guess most men are).
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
3. Yeah you know about the details in the email, but you have no idea about x, y , and z. There is still a ton you don't know that I will keep from you.
The thing I see with this option...
Do you really want to know all of the gory details?
When you sneeze, do you examine the tissue under a microscope so that you know every intimate detail of your snot, or do you say, "yuck" and throw it out?
You know the big picture and probably more details that you want already. I think I would just leave her to have certain aspects to herself and leave it at that.
If there are things that don't pertain to the A, yes she needs to be open about those.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
A little diversion Sparks, as this is just the tip of the Iceberg....
What qualities do YOU desire in a relationship ?
1-Honesty ( cause we decided that up here /\ /\ /\ ) 2- 3- 4- 5-
Fill in as many as you can/want to....
This is YOUR list of what you want now....
No Wife stuff...
Ahhh. Diversion. Your questions reminds me of the goals list I compiled yesterday from Divorce Remedy. Let's think of qualities this time. In no particular order.
when I was heading off to college my mom and I got into a big fight. She wrote an apology note and went to slide it in my journal (which I never locked) In doing so, she read my journal.
It is one of the times I felt most violated (even more so than the affair my ex had) because my journal, my writings were safe.
I didn't read through my journal to see what she had read (she was angry and something I wrote and said it painted her in a bad light...my take was, it wasn't for ANYONE else to read...it was mine, I could paint her however I wanted) I burned the journal.
It has taken me a long time to keep one again I never write with complete abandon again. I didn't talk to my mom for at least a year
You keep saying (and I can't tell tone from computer writing but I teach writing so I KNOW tone and it seems to seep from your posts) that someone else reading that stuff would have left
if that is how you feel self-righteous like look how great you are that you haven't left, look how "taking the high road" you are...
there is no point in staying
feeling big by making others feel small is no way to be cut her loose and don't pretend feel big another way
if however, you are feeling like your self-esteem has been shaken (which I get) and you are unsure of where you stand with her but you hope it is in a good place (again, I get) and you really want her to love you
then you need to modify your terms (like in therapy, saying look how I have taken the high road) because I would have walked out if I were your wife
everyone makes mistakes in their relationships
you will get nowhere if you don't acknowlege that your mistakes were just as damaging and just as hurtful as hers
3. Yeah you know about the details in the email, but you have no idea about x, y , and z. There is still a ton you don't know that I will keep from you.
The thing I see with this option...
Do you really want to know all of the gory details?
When you sneeze, do you examine the tissue under a microscope so that you know every intimate detail of your snot, or do you say, "yuck" and throw it out?
You know the big picture and probably more details that you want already. I think I would just leave her to have certain aspects to herself and leave it at that.
If there are things that don't pertain to the A, yes she needs to be open about those.
Thanks, cat. I wasn't really pertaining about the details of the affair. I was more talking about secrets in general. Examples. What has she REALLY told her parents? Has she found other avenues to contact OW? These are the sorts of things I was talking about. Trust me, I know enough of the gory details. I would never wish having to read some of those details about your loved one to my worst enemy.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
You keep saying (and I can't tell tone from computer writing but I teach writing so I KNOW tone and it seems to seep from your posts) that someone else reading that stuff would have left
if that is how you feel self-righteous like look how great you are that you haven't left, look how "taking the high road" you are...
there is no point in staying
feeling big by making others feel small is no way to be cut her loose and don't pretend feel big another way
if however, you are feeling like your self-esteem has been shaken (which I get) and you are unsure of where you stand with her but you hope it is in a good place (again, I get) and you really want her to love you
then you need to modify your terms (like in therapy, saying look how I have taken the high road) because I would have walked out if I were your wife
everyone makes mistakes in their relationships
you will get nowhere if you don't acknowlege that your mistakes were just as damaging and just as hurtful as hers
Thanks for the response, Figgeroni. I know tone is not always something that comes out well in typed text.
I guess let me clarify the high road piece. I do not believe it is coming off self righteous. At least I hope it is not. I guess for me, the attitude I am getting from my family is if this were to happen to me, I would be gone. If I read through 400 very damaging emails, I would be gone.
My point is that I am not gone. My attitude towards my W and our relationship has never changed. Even though the gory details of the emails.
I am not here to make others feel small as I portray myself as a saint.
I truly love my wife and seek to resolve this and get back towards trust and this includes my faults as well.
However, I guess I am still not at a point at this moment (it could change in the next moment) where I believe that all mistrust is equal. As Mach pointed out, a lie is a lie. My W had a ten month affair where our entire marriage was a lie. I read her email to discover the truth in order to save our marriage. How can those two mistrusts be on a level ground? How can she point towards my mistrust of the emails to deflect the impact of the affair?
So I assume the only way to approach it in therapy is to say that we have both made mistakes toward a breaking of trust. It will take two of us to heal those wounds and rebuild?
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
