The Moment of Clarity

[Jack_Three_Beans]

How did she know the difference?

Fat, needy, demanding guy sitting in front of 'his' computer playing video games and not taking an active interest in anything outside of sex and his computer game?

Or the guy who said from now we will only talk about the bills and our boys. The rest of the crap is just lies.

And later when she did stray into other areas I would say, "So we are done talking then?"

I think it was pretty clear.

What if you had not had a 'middle' phase?

I'm pretty sure my posts here would be a lot different.

I don't think that I had a middle phase.

I don't think your far enough away from it yet to assign your phases. Not trying to be mean here Denver. This is one of those times when looking back down the road things will fall much more into place, forrest and tress type of thing.

When she came back, and THAT was a hard choice, I told her I would have to think about it. AND if you really want to know and have some time to kill. Click on my name, view posts, sort by topics created. That should pare it down to a few pages. : )

When she came back, it was a rough road too, we stayed seperated for about 1 1/2 years while we worked things out. I consider that part of the real middle as well. Times I wanted (ego) to walk away, but hell can't be the 1 if you give up.

[Denver_2010]

I don't think your far enough away from it yet to assign your phases. Not trying to be mean here Denver. This is one of those times when looking back down the road things will fall much more into place, forrest and tress type of thing.

No, I don't think that you're being mean J3B. And I agree. I guess what I'm getting at is whether or not you think that the phases have to occur in the order that you described them happening to you. Like I said, I didn't have a middle phase as you describe. Mine have occurred like this:

1. Distant/ignore W because of my own selfishness causing W to leave

2. Distant/ignore W bc she left and I applied LRT (from beginning of Dec through about end of January)

What I'm HOPING is that I am NOW going through the phase that you describe as the middle phase... but for me it is just happening in a different order.

But you are right, I won't know until I can look back on all of this craziness without being in the middle of it.

[Denver_2010]

I would have to be able to trust that she is coming back for the right reasons.

I would have to be able to trust or have faith that she is capable of doing the work, and commits to doing it.

Agreed.

I would not assume that she expects you to fix or rescue.

From what you described you treated your W like a child. Do you think she likes that?

Wants more of the same?

No. I know that she doesn't want me to treat her like a child. There is a huge part of her that wants to be independent... that IS independent. But there is also a huge part of her that wants to feel 'safe' with me. That I will protect her. At some point, I went from making her feel safe and protected, to feeling like I was controlling bc I was trying to 'fix' too much. It is a fine line. With my W anyway.

If she ASKS you for help then it is up to you whether you decide to give it. Or what is fair in the situation.

This was not your choice it was hers. So for her to ask you for help with her choice...

Doesn't really go along with the space and freedom idea does it.

Kinda contradicts huh?

There is a middle of the road choice here if you have the fortitude to do it.

It is not overly friendly nor shutting her off either.

Grit - I wonder if the differences in our situations should be considered. What I mean is that your W was MLC. I don't recall you speaking very much of really being a bad H during your M. I know that you weren't perfect, none of us are. But in my sitch, I was a really bad H for the last 10 months my W was with me, and wasn't that wonderful in the other 6+ years of our R. During those last 10 months, I really think that I could have been defined as a WAH. My W got sick of being lonely and with me constantly being mad at her. So she left. I don't think that there is much MLC with her. Maybe some, but not much.

So for you, there may not have been as much need for you to show your W the type of change that my W needs to see from me. I don't know. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm saying is that your R rests more with your W coming out of MLC fog whereas for me, it rests more with my W, yes coming out of WAW fog, but also seeing and believing that I can be the H that she always believed that I could be.

When she calls show her the new Denver. Let her lead the convo. Don't ask a bunch of questions or about how she's doing etc. let her tell you.

Don't call her let her call you.

See what happens.

I did do this. And she started to contact me. Slowly, but surely. It worked! I'm just not so sure that I'm still in that phase of things. Now, if things go poorly tomorrow night with dinner with W, then maybe I will see things differently. Guess we'll see.

Denver this is not a thing of absolutes but I can tell you that the more space you give her, validation and stop fixing the better you both will be.

The best thing for her is for her to live her choices and for you to let her live with the consequences.

Your logic is to get her back to M first.

IMO there has not been enough time apart. The turkey has just started to cook.

I say all this with the caveat that you know your W better than we.

Well, I think so anyway. But like I said, I will know more by Friday. Good or bad.

Anyway it is a good question and I remember thinking through it myself.

My asnwer was to detach from what was happening in her life and what she was choosing.

I heard a lot of words early on like you that I thought she might be thinking of coming back

In the end space was the answer for me but I did a lot of what you are doing.

It's not wrong it just can be very tiresome and painful.

That's just what I learned.

The tiresome and the painful... yes. I see that very much. I can't continue with the path that I'm on unless I continue to see progress and positive results. If it things start to go backwards again, I can see myself doing exactly what you did for my own good.

[ironMan]

Hey, brother Denver. I just wanted to remind you to MANAGE EXPECTATIONS leading up to this convo. You need to be a ninja here. She may be nice, or she may try to rip your guts out. You can't let her hit you ... so you can't expect her to be nice .... or mean. Is it possible just to go into this with an open mind? Like you were having dinner with an old college buddy?

[2stepboogie]

Denver,

If I don't talk to you before tomorrow i want to wish you patience, calm, and focus. Success will come but not before that...........

I am there with you..........

[Denver_2010]

Thanks guys for the words of advice and encouragement for tomorrow night. I was telling FOBD that I feel like I have a big job interview scheduled! It's worse than having a first date with someone who you've been looking forward to going out with! LOL...

Quick update...

W texted me yesterday morning telling me that she didn't need to accept any money from me bc her mom had transferred some to her account. Her mom is in Korea, so W had been unsure that she would be able to help her. That's why I was going to help her this second time.

In the early evening, W called me talk to me about this weekend. SS had asked me on Sunday if he could hang out with me instead of having to go to my FIL's. I told him that he could. W and I talked about what night I would be hanging with SS. We ended up talking about some things going on with her, teaching job and her singing job. It was a good convo with some shared laughs.

Later last night the roads here in Denver were pretty bad, so I did initiate some contact with W. I texted her just a quick simple message to make sure that she and SS were home safely and off the roads. She responded that they had just gotten home, that the roads were bad, and thanked me for checking.

Today, W sent me an email about the iphone that is now available for our wireless plans. We exchanged a couple of emails about that. Nothing really interesting. But daily contact seems to be getting pretty regular.

BITS
Denver

[dixiegal]

Denver,

Im so excited about the regular Daily contact!!! That's HUGE! Trust me, I'd do anything for that....So, that's a start for sure. I think it was great that you just checked on her and ss. It shows you care!

I'm praying about Friday for yall. Just DB you rear off and stay calm!!! You can do it, I know you can!!!

Denver, I pray that your W can see the heart of the Man you are. I'm praying that GOD give you the wisdom and peace of heart when you speak to W.

Dixie

[lostinscared]

Oh Denver,

Please count me among your prayer group. I have high hopes for your dinner. Be patient, be kind, validate, validate, validate. But most important, remember that YOU ARE WORTH ANOTHER CHANCE.

She is turning a corner, my friend. Daily contact is huge. I am just so happy for you and I pray that this continues on the right path. YOU deserve that.

I can't wait to hear the rest of this story after dinner!!!

I'm praying for you.

LIS

[hope2011]

Praying here too!!! Ditto what the other girls have said. Patience, calm, listening... very attractive qualities in a man. Like a first date... too aggressive, too eager is not attractive. She will see the great man you are. I think she already does. You can do this, Denver.

[2stepboogie]

Denver,

Accept the small victories, any light contact with W is a small victory. Don't do what I have done and get over zelous just keep it light and fun. Remember the goal is for her to get off the phone feeling good about contacting you. If she does, the contact will continue.

I am nervous about tonight, not because of anything bad just nervous. It feels like I am the one going.