Not Counting Chickens Yet...

[2stepboogie]

Denver and 2step... fly out here and take my H out for a beer?

I would and I'll even pay you to fly to OK and take my W out. LOL. I'm on my iphone so I will catch up tonight but this one line caught my eye, couldn't let it go unanswered

[hope2011]

LOL 2step, I'd definitely do that if Michele didn't ban it. Maybe one day we'll all be reconciled and happy and Michele can throw a reunion party.

[zengypsy]

(((Hope))))

Wishing you a good day and keep DB'g!

Hugs - Zen

[hope2011]

Not a good day here.

H is out of town for the day, I have the boys (well, they are in school). I'm doing laundry and I go to put it away in H's drawers. I've never done this, don't know why I did it today. Usually I just leave a pile for him to put away but I guess I got tired of the pile of clean laundry (he takes forever to put clothes away) and so I went to put them in his drawers. I go to shove his boxers in his underwear drawer and I see something red and satin. I pull on it and it's a brand new pair of Santa boxers with a matching red satin hat. Tags still on. But with them came out a pair of used (but clean) women's lace panties. Not mine.

I am devastated.

I don't know how old they are, if they are from this past December's "separation" or from the XW (of 4 years ago). I can't remember H cleaning out any drawers since we met so I don't know. Shaking, I called him. I know I probably shouldn't have, but I did. I told him what I found. He swears they are the XW's. )#&%$%&$()%*$&^& Really????? Ok, men.... do any of you keep panties from XW's that you left? According to him, they must be hers because he has no idea how they got in there. But he knew what I was talking about when I bought them up. He never asked what they looked like, what color, size, etc. He asked what the boxers looked like though.

I am tempted to e-mail the XW a photo of the panties and ask her if they are hers but I won't. I'm too scared to find out they aren't hers. I know they aren't hers.

So who do they belong to and when? When we were dating? Between me and the XW because he told me that he hadn't slept with anyone else but me after her. It seems more likely during December. I find them with Santa boxers and a hat? When did he cheat though? The only time he's unaccounted for is the night I had to sleep in the truck but the boys were home. He wasn't on-line on the dating site then, no e-mails that night. Maybe he wasn't home, maybe he went out that day while I went to the wedding alone. My imagination is on overdrive now.

I know my husband is a liar and a salesman. I know he will tell me anything for his own benefit. I know he was on dating sites while sleeping with me and telling me things with us where good.

Right now, things with us are better than they have been for 2 years. No fighting, ML twice a day (from zero for months), talking, laughing, he's trying, being attentive, etc. Trying to get over December but over all, it's been good. But is it only good because he's trying to cover up cheating? The old sayings about when a man suddenly changes for the better or doesn't want sex or wants a lot more sex... he's cheating. Just ringing in my ears.

I feel stupid right now. For second-guessing myself, for believing him, for not believing him, for not knowing what reality is anymore.

[grr]

ok, take a deep breath

if they were another woman's would he be so careless where he left them?

probably not

if they were for someone else, was it at a time when things were not going so good?

i know this is hard, but what do you want the outcome of this to be?

you are trying to save your marriage - i would calmly talk this out with him and then let it go

you have been getting on great for awhile now, has there been any inkling that he has been cheating?

maybe things got better because he realizes what he has

xo

[hope2011]

They were buried behind everything in his drawer. I never go in his drawers, ever. He knows this. I know that sounds weird since you all know that I have hacked his e-mail and phone but no, I haven't dug through his dressers. I've never put his laundry away until today, ever. I truly don't know why I did today. I wish I hadn't. If I hadn't seen that little flash of red satin when I opened the drawer and pulled on it, then the panties wouldn't have come out too. They were snagged on the tags on the boxers. I can't help but wonder if the universe is working hard at telling me "he's a cheater!!!!".

I honestly could care less about the boxers. I could have bought them and forgotten to be truthful. I shop at that store, have bought him Christmas presents there and yes, I would definitely buy something that cheesy as they wouldn't be the first pair of silly boxers I've found.

The panties, the dating site, a weird rash he got our first year of marriage and having my own doctor tell me to get tested for STD's after I described the rash to her (we have different doctors). He swore he got it from a hotel. I must be the dumbest wife on earth. I try so hard to put aside all my suspicions, to give him the benefit of the doubt, to make excuses for him, to believe the crap he tells me.

On the phone, he also said "I don't know what's in there, I never look. I haven't cleaned it out in years. There's probably an old silly banana hammock in there too. Throw it all away. You've got lingerie from old relationships too, it's the same thing".

No, it's not the same thing. Because I don't have a lover's boxers in my underwear drawer. Lingerie... yes, panties, bras, etc. We've been together only 4 years, I have underwear 10 years old. He handed me my mail a few weeks ago, with a Victoria Secret catalog (addresses to his XW because we still get some of her junkmail) and said "here's a Victoria Secret" catalog. I thought that was odd then. Like I have spare cash to buy new $30 undies right now? It's not like I wear unsexy or ugly underwear. But now I look at these panties found in his drawer... lace and satin with crystals hanging off of them and bows everywhere with a VS tag on them, made in Morocco. I just want to cry. Yes, the XW shopped at VS obviously from the catalog and they could be her size but why would he keep them? Why? Don't men keep panties as souvenirs of nights or lovers they want to remember? He ended that M, he never has a nice thing to say about her (she's an alcoholic).... it makes no sense that he'd keep her underwear. It's an obvious lie.

Now, I think back to what he said about the "banana hammock" and I vaguely remember those. I think he pulled them out once laughing about them when we first got serious, or cleaning that drawer. If he had those panties then, he would've remembered then and tossed them, right? I wish I could remember! I looked for that thing in his drawer - not there. He did throw that out. But not the panties?

So yes, there have been inkling he's been cheating. A lot of them. In the past month since we started to work things out? I don't know. No, I guess. But I didn't think so in December either.

My XH cheated on me, 3 times with 3 different women over the course of our marriage. I never had a clue. I thought he was a God-fearing, good, honest, loyal husband. It took me a whole year after he left to find out about the OW.

My last boyfriend (2 year R) started texting another woman cross-country a few months before we broke up. I worked hard to have enough money to rent a gorgeous cabin in the mountains for him and his family and me for his 40th birthday, worked hard to make it special and the whole time he was texting her. The whole time. In front of me too. And I was too stupid to see it and when I did start suspecting, I kept making excuses "they are just friends".

I am a doormat. I don't trust my own instincts anymore at all. I am obviously horrible at choosing good men. I am naive and want so badly to believe in the good in people I love that even when God hits me upside the head with proof they aren't good I still doubt.

I don't trust him and I don't trust me. I don't know if I can go on with this M at this point. I want a lie detector test. I want to know what's real and what isn't. If he has cheated, what he has lied about. I need that to move forward, with or without him. I can't spend the rest of my life with him like this. But he'll never do that.

I don't know what I want the outcome of this to be. I want the truth, I want to know the truth. I want to just be able to trust the person I'm with and to be able to breathe again.

[hope2011]

A bit calmer now. Good thing H is out of town (just for the day, left this morning, returning tonight because of snow). The boys are home, can't be upset around them. Venting...

I want to believe he's being faithful. I want to believe the past month has been real. Does that make me an idiot or optimistic or an optimistic idiot? I need a reality check, I have lost my bearings.

What do you do when you can't believe them? When you don't know if they are telling the truth? How to do you build on a foundation that's built on mud?

I'd have more respect for him if he was honest. Lying, games, sneaking around... I can't respect that. I know I'm reading "Love & Respect" and all and that's mens' LL but not every man deserves respect for every behavior. I'm not asking for perfect... just honest and faithful and kind. Doesn't everyone deserve that? I'm just hurt and confused and I don't know what to believe right now. If he has cheated, I am gone. I spent 2 years trying to save my last marriage after cheating... I can't do that again. I need trust. I can't build trust if he's not honest. How do I know if he's being honest?

The whole December thing, with him on the site and pursuing other women and me being clueless thinking things were getting better.... it's shaken me to my core. I can forgive, even understand why he was on that site. I wasn't a perfect wife, I nagged a lot, didn't hear him, etc. I understand that part. But I don't understand the leading me on, the being close to me, the two-face dishonesty of it all. I am having a harder time getting over that because it's shaken my faith in myself and what I see as real and fake. My self esteem is zero. My confidence in reading others is zero.

I've worked really, really hard since December. I haven't yelled, accused, raised my voice once. I have asked questions a few times, calmly and non-accusatory. Today's phone call was calm, I wasn't hysterical or anything. I calmly asked, he answered without being defensive. I've been attentive, I've been respectful, encouraging, supportive, praising. I've made a lot of changes and am sticking to them.... fixing myself up in the mornings, dressing up, taking care of the house more, getting an outside office, not commenting about the boys when they are in trouble, etc. I've had 1 attempt at an R talk before today and haven't pushed him, driven him nuts with R stuff, questions about the dating site, etc. I've given him space and tried to put that all behind us. I've been 150% into saving this marriage. My shattered, frightened little heart is on my sleeve.

I'm scared. He went from ready to leave to wanting to work it out in a little over a week. A week. He's been more attentive, kind, affectionate to me in the past month than he has been the past 2 years. I'm just scared it's not real.

I'm dangerously close to WAW territory, my BITS. Pull me back....

[ScaredinCanada]

Hope, I'm sorry you found the panties because like you said no matter what his explanation it isn't going to be enough.

I remember going through it when my W cheated, I was so naive. I believed all of the crap, until everything finally came crashing down.

I cannot understand how people (both men and woman) cheat? I almost 34 and I've only ever had sex with my W. Sure I've had temptations in the past but I never came close to cheating - I just never would, it's not in me.

Bottom line is though, you need to understand whether this is a deal breaker for you (assuming you confirm it) or if it's just another thing to work through because you want to be with your H regardless of the mistakes (big or small).

I hate everytime I read on here about who has been cheated on or suspects cheating - it brings back horrible memories.

I feel really bad for you Hope, but only you can determine how you will deal with it.

Good Luck! Thinking of you.

BITS
SIC

[hope2011]

SIC, if I've learned anything through my D and DB'ing and now this M and DB'ing, it's that some people have integrity and some don't. There are some of us that no matter how bad things got, we have lines we don't cross. It's ingrained in our hearts and souls. And then there are those who when times get tough, all bets and vows are off, they put themselves first.

[hope2011]

So reality check from you guys? SIC, am I being paranoid or is he probably cheating? Current or past tense?

He'll be home in a few hours, I have to figure out how to deal with this.

He called from the road, saying he's definitely coming home tonight. Thanked me for taking care of the boys and told me he loves me.

Why couldn't he just keep being a jerk? This would be easier. But to be the nicest, kindest he's been to me in 2 years and to seem to really be trying and now this?