Ready to give up

[Lotus]

Disbelief,

It sounds to me like your wife is depressed, not in the throes of love with another man. Hopefully, her sister will be a good influence on her. I can't imagine having to take care of 5 children. certainly her days must be difficult.

I dont' know anything about the Strong Bonds program, but if they have had success with it before, then I would say you should do it. As for transparency, maybe it isn't the biggest issue. Maybe honesty is a better description of what you need from her. You can demand transparency, but someone who doesn't want to do it can still find ways to hide the contact -- new email accounts, pay as you go cellphones, secret meetings. But honesty doesn't have loopholes. You are either honest with each other or not.

I still recommend Retrouvaille. There is no particular timing on the value of the program. It helps with communication. That is a skill that is useful at any point in a marriage. Even in divorces. You could recommend Retrouvaille to your dad too. DR is the newer version of the book. It is recommended over DB.

[blue2010]

Thanks lotus Strong bonds is suppossed to focuss on communication also. Military based. No cost to me that would be a selling point for her going to talk to the chaplain about it more also. The military overall has a newer focus on saving marriages command supported.
I just don't know how timing effects these she was just texting me questions about oour R. So maybe we are piecing.

[Lotus]

Yes, I think you are piecing. the important thing is to be nice to each other. Listen to what she says. Don't argue with her. Instead ask questions. Try to understand her. If you don't agree, it might be that you don't understand why she is saying what she does. It's not wrong to have a different point of view. You want to understand hers, and you hope that she will also want to understand yours. Sometimes people have to agree to disagree. So you both try to understand, not necessarily agree that one person is right and the other is wrong.

V-day is coming. You don't have to do anything huge. But you should do something nice for her.

[blue2010]

We just talked for 20 min all pleasant she called me. V day I got her a little something for her new car and was considering roses but half doz and a mix red pink. Yellow (that's friendship right?)

[Queen_of_Swords]

From the meaning of flowers:

Yellow is a gorgeous color for flowers and it has significant meaning as well. Yellow flowers meaning is more of a friendship and respect relationship than true love. Yellow roses are the most common sent to signify friendship. They are also sent to mean joy and happiness so you can send them for events such as retirement, graduation, and even the birth of a new baby.

In some cultures though a yellow rose signifies that the person doesn't feel the same level of love they once did. This concept is strongly debated though and more geared towards meaning loving friendship rather than true love. It is also said that a yellow rose sent with ivy means that the jealousy of one of the parties has resulted in the friendship being damaged or ruined. A combination of yellow and white flowers signifies that you want to attempt to patch up a relationship that has been suffering due to your choices.

[blue2010]

I didn't know all that I was thinking the yellow and red because I want to save the M and we seem to be piecing yet I still want to restore our friendship our whole relationship despite her choice to have an A

[Jack_Three_Beans]

She does not want to speak of the A at all, she is beginning to have nightmares. She will not tell me about what. She says she has to deal with this her way. She is yet to be open to reading anything from professionals or couples experienced in infidelity recovery.

When she is capable of doing the above.
Then you can:

When will she agree to transparency?
When do I discuss transparency?

Answer those questions. Give her a little time, give her as much time as you can, explore opportunities IF they come up, not you bringing them up, but in the end you might have to bring it up.

If this M survives how am i going to handle the collateral damage?

"I'm a firm believer that the vast majority of marriages can be resurrected after infidelity," says Weiner-Davis. "And as odd as it sounds, an affair can be a blessing in disguise -- not that I would recommend one because I don't, but through the process of healing, a couple may find that they've grown closer."
- from another source

I have found the above to be absolutely true.

You can if you want to.

DR is the book to go with...

And flowers? I think as long as they aren't black, you'll be fine.

[blue2010]

Thank you all love the input the more the better , and I suppose black orchids would be a very/poor choice........ I have chosen to add more humor to my life !

[blue2010]

So should i give anything for valentines day I was thinking the mixed roses from pro flowers................... Dunno she still needs to meet transparency

[blue2010]

Well things had been going well I thought then last night after a good family day we had an R conversation. She will reveal nothing. Nothing about how she feels if she even wants to save the M.
So I was pretty foward she cried a couple times but I have still ensured her that I want her to feel safe secure and us to get through this if not for me for the kids. And that it is possible to get through it. She doesn't want to hear from me so I stopped.
So due to my wifes defensive behavior today I lokked at the phone record. Data shows email sized data all night. I cannot confirm she was emailing the other man but that is the most logical conclusion. Her behavior if I take from a clinical standpoint is of a depressed somewhat desperate person. Do I continue this battle for my marriage. Do I let this frustration of hers settle we had a pretty heated relationship discussion last night. Do I confront her saying I am pretty sure she has been in contact?
Do I blind side her with a letter and my feelings and completed divorce papers for her to sign?
it is 5 months since d day. Almost 2 since confronting about emails.
maybe we do need a seperation.

I supposse it is possible 3g was updating a web page but my data has never done that.

She just lost it because I asked for transparency again.

OM Wife just confirmed OM was not online, he was asleep she was awake, for at least half of the time of the data usage.

What to do.
I still want to save this.