It could be part of it or not. No one really knows right now.
One thing I want you to try to wrap your head around...
She has just had a baby. So even though she has been in counseling, she is going to be all over the map emotionally for a while.
Hormones, while not an excuse, really do mess with a woman more than a man realizes.
I can remember, about 4 months after my S was born, and I had had no post partum, just one day, falling apart because the bathroom sink would not come as clean as I wanted it to.
No rhyme, no reason, I just was a total mess. And it lasted for a while after that.
Not to mention that she is dealing with a pretty big issue...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
cat, you are dead on. You do hate to make excuses but it is real. My W went through it with our second. It's what did help us down this crazy path we are finally getting off of.
BUT don't ever bring it up, Sparks. Just realize that sometimes, those wacky hormones, will make her say/do things very irrationally.
m 40 w 38 married 15 together 18 d11, d8 bomb 12/19/10 2nd bomb 3/30/11 COMPLETELY DONE
Trust me. I am on that page. During her pregnancy, there were many times where she was an emotional wreck. I made the mistake a few times of telling my wife that she was going to be okay. It was completely natural for her to feel this way with her bodies hormone balances going nuts.
I always knew to never, ever blame or bring up the words PMS to my wife. I still have never done that. Although, the reaction I received about the pregnancy hormones was just as bad. She even mentioned it to the OW in her emails.
I honestly believed the post postpartum was real. So did her mother. So did her doctor. That is why when my wife told me in tears that she did not love me a week after our baby was born, I took it in stride. Even her doctor told her nor to make in drastic decisions at the time.
I have no idea how hormones effect any of this. My wife seems to believe that none of it is. I also know my wife to be very hormonal anyway. I have always been accepting of that. I guess that is why I accepted what was to come with pregnancy and child birth. It told me to expect it in every book I read and every doctor I spoke with.
Maybe those hormones are still there. Who knows. W told me her mother is blaming everything on her hormones right now and wants her to get blood work done and change one of her medications. Our couples therapist actually disagreed with that in front of my W.
I will take something from the thought. It just gives me one more reason to remain patient with her and be compassionate and provide support. Who knows where she is right now?
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Do not expect too much too soon with her. This may take a good while to sort out since her main problems seem to be sexual orientation.
The therapist should keep that in focus. If not, there may be things said that have no credibility for you, yet present blame to you.
Own the things you need to own, and listen and validate the ones you do not own.
Don't try to defend yourself too much, and remember...
Whatever she says....
Those are her feelings, and her truths....
You cannot change that through words, only consistent actions that match your words...
The best therapy sessions seem to be the ones that "hurt" the most walking out....
Well as couple's therapy goes, this one was a tough one. You mentioned that some of the best therapy sessions are the ones that you hurt as you leave. If that is the case, this one is up there.
It started off about us talking about the issues where my wife does not feel safe at home. I read our therapist the email that I wrote my W last night that opened me up and my intentions. That is was looking in a positive direction. That I would not let the negative feelings from my parents affect me, and that I have told them that. Things were looking positive as the session progressed. I felt like my wife truly began to feel that I was in this for good, and that I would not be giving up.
She then mentioned the betrayal she felt of how I told my parents about the affair before I even told her. That I allowed her in my parents’ home while they knew. To me, I almost felt like she was turning it around on me, but I began to understand how uncomfortable her relationship with my family will be for a very long time.
I don't remember how it slipped, but my wife said something that had me respond about my feelings. I told her for the past 10 months, she has done nothing but cheat and lie and betray, but I have still chosen to love you and take the positive road. She asked about how I knew it was 10 months. I told her that she told me it started last school year and was giving a general number. She asked again, and then told me to quit lying to her. She then threatened to never come back to therapy if I didn't tell her the truth. My wife (and family) knows that I am a HORRIBLE lier and always end up telling the truth. I can't hold a lie for the life of me. I told her that I had read her email, and that is how I ultimately discovered the affair. She was petrified and pissed. She then asked how I got her password. I first told her that I had always known it. She told me in tars not to lie to her. Not to lie in this therapist office that we promised was a safety zone for us. I told her that I had use a program to get the password.
It has hit the fan. My therapist mentions that there is betrayal going both ways. On one side, my wife betrayed me through her affair and lying. On the other side, I betrayed my wife by getting her password and checking her email.
Wife said that these are the reasons she does not feel comfortable in our house. I promised that I had not used that program and will not. It was only used to discover the truth. I have no intentions on snooping at all, and I will just have to prove that over time.
Sounds like this one is going to take awhile. If we had taken three steps forward, we just took two steps back.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
First off, It is over and done, you can't change it now....
Secondly,
There seems to be issues that are valid from her. Things that are coming up that shine both of you in an unfavorable light.
Trust is the most fragile thing we have. We give it reluctantly, we accept it easily, and betray it frequently. Sometimes we know when we do, most times we don't. We often take for granted, but when it is broken, or gone.....It finds us again battered and bruised , seeking to find it, yet unwilling to give it.
In order to give trust, we must feel trusted.
The things that came up yesterday with that. It took the therapist and your wife to drag the truth out of you TWICE....
How can you expect that, if you don't give that ?
One of her issues is she doesn't feel safe at your home...
Keyloggers, Snooping....Would YOU feel safe there ?
Sparks....lying is lying, no matter how big, or how righteous one can get..
That is one of the reasons that exposing goes against what MWD teaches...
First off, It is over and done, you can't change it now....
Secondly,
There seems to be issues that are valid from her. Things that are coming up that shine both of you in an unfavorable light.
Trust is the most fragile thing we have. We give it reluctantly, we accept it easily, and betray it frequently. Sometimes we know when we do, most times we don't. We often take for granted, but when it is broken, or gone.....It finds us again battered and bruised , seeking to find it, yet unwilling to give it.
In order to give trust, we must feel trusted.
The things that came up yesterday with that. It took the therapist and your wife to drag the truth out of you TWICE....
How can you expect that, if you don't give that ?
One of her issues is she doesn't feel safe at your home...
Keyloggers, Snooping....Would YOU feel safe there ?
Sparks....lying is lying, no matter how big, or how righteous one can get..
That is one of the reasons that exposing goes against what MWD teaches...
That breach of trust, is hard to repair.
What are your goals for addressing this ?
I understand what you are saying, Mach. The trust issue is broken on both sides. No matter how big or how small. In my mind, the trust broken from committing adultery and lying to me for 10 months outweighs the trust broken from checking her email to discover it.
In the end, I need to keep the past in the past and look towards the future.
My therapist mentioned for the short term that we only discuss serious topics in the safety of her office. Eventually, she suggested that we talk about our lives in a neutral place (over dinner with our son, walking around the park, etc.).
I know this will take a long time to rebuild.
The emails that I read were very heavy, damaging to me, and very graphic. I told my wife that even after reading through those to uncover the affair, I am still here. Does that mean anything? Does that come across at all? I guess most people that would read through that would already be out the door.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
The trust issue is broken on both sides. No matter how big or how small. In my mind, the trust broken from committing adultery and lying to me for 10 months outweighs the trust broken from checking her email to discover it.
I don't know about that pedastol thing Sparks...
A lie is a lie....no matter how fine it is chopped up.
Anything about how major or minor is judgmental....
Morally you are correct, I'm just not sure how this plays into the dishonesty on both sides...
Originally Posted By: sparks14
In the end, I need to keep the past in the past and look towards the future.
The past is over and done, you do want to look towards the future, but your past needs to be in your rear view mirror. Your mistakes you have made need to be the reminders of what not to do in the future.
You use them to learn, and if you don't , they are just repeated patterns of stupid behavior.
I understand what you are saying, Mach. The trust issue is broken on both sides. No matter how big or how small. In my mind, the trust broken from committing adultery and lying to me for 10 months outweighs the trust broken from checking her email to discover it.
Sparks,
I am going to disagree with you here.
You violated your W. Period. You broke her trust just as badly as she broke yours.
I have four siblings. Growing up, I can't tell you how many times my mother would have to break up two of us, usually threatening to pull the car over, because someone was touching someone else. No one would admit who started it and the other person was always at fault.
That is the impression I got reading your response to Mach.
You agree that the trust is broken, no matter how big or small, but then you say hers was worse. She started it. You are the victim here. And you only did what you did, because she put you into a position to do it.
This is where maturity and self awareness come into play, Sparks.
You can continue playing the "she poked me first" game, justifying your actions, and perpetuating the cycle, or you can be the bigger person, accept and acknowledge that you have both made some horrible choices and have hurt each other, and that it is going to take you time to rebuild on both sides.
The path that you choose, is up to you.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
In fairness to Sparks14, and as someone who was cheated on...I personally don't believe the 2 can be compared.
I understand what yourself and Mach1 are trying to do, to help Sparks14 move forward.
Weighting the lack of trust doesn't make a difference when it comes to fixing it, but I come from a position where someone initiates breaking a common trust - then by default that is going to put the common trust in jeopardy.
Just to summarize, I think it's fair to acknowledge this point - but then clearly you need to move forward if you truly want to fix the "common trust" between the 2 of you.
BITS SIC
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
In fairness to Sparks14, and as someone who was cheated on...I personally don't believe the 2 can be compared.
SIC,
You don't know me or my story. So I will give you a brief synopsis.
My wonderful and loving H, with all of his passive aggressive tendencies, his codependence, verbal, emotional, and three times physically abusive behaviors, had FOUR, yes I said four, that I can prove (one other that is speculation), OW, two of which he brought into my home and that I became friends with, and has suffered through two periods of MLC which spanned the time frame of twelve years, when I finally decided enough was enough for me. He is still on his journey almost two years later.
There were good times and bad through all of this. I am not a martyr. Or a doormat.
I have however, struggled with self esteem issues, control issues, a ton of self hatred, a ton of blaming and playing the victim, and victimizing. I hated him and I hated the world for a long time. Then, I challenged myself and was challenged to recognize my views and behaviors and to change them because they are the only ones I can control.
What I have learned, is that I gave as good as I got. Not in the same ways, if you want to weigh things out, not anything as bad as him in comparison. However, his hurt, was just as great as mine. His trust, was just as violated as mine. He felt just as unsafe and controlled as I did. It is all relative.
The only way to change that, is to change yourself. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Be the person that you want to have in your life.
Sometimes you have to give to receive...
Even if it doesn't seem fair, right, or just.
Where am I now? In love with a wonderful man. Who treats me like gold most days, and I hope that is because I treat him in kind. With love, kindness, and respect. It is not all rosy, we have had to deal things ourselves, but we work through them together. Doing our best, to be better and different than we were.
My H, is still on his journey and is still a part of my life. We have a child that we continue to coparent and we actually do it pretty well most days. I still hold love for him in my heart. He is a good man. He just was not a good partner and neither was I at times. There is no hatred, no feelings of victimhood on my part, no blame, nothing. It was what it was and I have forgiven him and myself for things that could have been done differently. I got myself to this point, with the hopes to continue my M. My H, had other ideas, and that was his choice.
So please understand, there is experience behind the words I say to someone. Don't ever discount anyone's words unless you know where they have been. I am no better or worse than anyone here. I have simply been there and done that.
If I can save someone time and mistakes through this process, help them to come to the other side (regardless of the outcome of the M) whole, healthy, and healed, then I have done what I set out to do.
Are we still comparing apples and oranges?
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
