Hi Cyrena, thank you again for your thoughts. You know, yes, i guess I 'liked' myself in the role of the caretaker. And I still do. I'm the one who would invite people for dinner. Not because I have to, but because I like it. I like the shopping, I like the cooking, and I like a full house of people who are enjoying themselves. Maybe I like the praise. I honestly don't think that I had a massive problem with putting his agenda ahead of mine. I don't know. I wanted to make him happy. Maybe I'll have to question myself a bit more on that one?
I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo frustrated right now. I moved to the UK to be with my H... I had shi**y jobs I hated to pay the bills, I had no friends, I had no family around. I am sooo angry. I just realized that we can never expect anyone to reciprocate though I was hoping that would just come naturally with someone who loved you. Don't get me wrong, I never EXPECTED him to pay me back or anything silly, I guess I just realized that I've been left standing in the rain here, on my own.
I'm crying as I type this. I'm so angry and hurt. I trusted him so much. I hoped that he would be my rock, and he would be the one I could rely on.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to have people over, or wanting your H to be happy ... as long as you have absolutely no expectations of doing it for any reason other than satisfying your own needs. If you feel delighted and pleased with the outcome afterwards, wonderful! But if you find yourself thinking, "How come they never invite me back for dinner?" "How come I'm always the one to make all the plans?" or "How could he leave me when I put up with his every whim to keep him with me?" then you weren't doing those things for the pleasure of doing them, but because you expected, even unconsciously, some kind of payback. A risk with caretakers is that they try to buy love (and to keep people dependent on them) through their caretaking.
Only you know your situation well enough to know if this applies to you, but it is worth thinking about because it's such a common unconscious motivation, especially among LBS.
I'm sorry you felt so lonely and abandoned yesterday--I hope today is better for you. Would it be possible to search for a better job, or are there visa restrictions involved? Also, if you had a crystal ball and knew for certain your H would never return, what would you do? Would you choose to stay in the UK? Move back? Are there changes you would make in that situation?
Do you still have friends and family back home that you can lean on a bit at this time? Perhaps this would be the time to renew connections with them?
September, I'm sorry for your pain. It's wonderful that so much wisdom is offered here with so many.
There are people on this board whose spouses have had a quick fix and come back to them fairly rapidly. What they discover is that, until all of the issues have been dealt with by the MLCer, it is impossible for their relationship to work out.
I've tried to do a lot of MLC reading, but not sure of the answer to this: How do you know, until it's too late, that the fix was too quick?
Cyrena, thank you for your words. Sorry I have been quiet for a while. I find it very difficult to put my feelings into words - I envy some people here on the forum, some of them are so great with it! I think I'm doing o.k. Yes, I believe there is definitely some truth in what you said about caretaking but I'm finding it difficult to ... well, not to BE that way if that makes sense? I've always been the friend people would call with their problems, the person who throws dinner parties (and cooks everything from scratch), the one to lean on etc etc...that's just me. And I think I like it. Most of the time. I need to find out how much of that I will have to change or even want to change! but thank you for giving me food for thought.
I'm doing fine, getting on with things. actually saw H yesterday - we were both invited to the same gig, I knew he was going to be there. I dressed up, took 2 girlfriends, smiled and laughed, said hello to him and a kiss on the cheek and was happy and cheerful throughout the evening. it was a weird experience as I felt he wanted to chat more, I tried to keep conversation short and sweet (and ended them first!), so I think I did ok (did I?). He squeezed my hand once when I walked past him, as if to reach out to me... I let him squeeze it, smiled back at him but walked past. Funny thing was, I decided to leave without saying goodbye to him and as I got home had an email from him asking why I didn't say goodbye and could we meet for a drink some time this week? so here's what I'm planning to do -
- look stunning when we go out - will NOT drink too much (danger of getting emotional) - will NOT talk about US or relationship - will be happy - will listen to what he has to say..... - will try to end the evening first (most difficult part)
am I doing alright with this plan? have I forgotten anything?
I miss him.
nic1 - maybe we could get cyrena to give us some feedback on your question, I'd be interested to hear it too.
There are people on this board whose spouses have had a quick fix and come back to them fairly rapidly. What they discover is that, until all of the issues have been dealt with by the MLCer, it is impossible for their relationship to work out.
I've tried to do a lot of MLC reading, but not sure of the answer to this: How do you know, until it's too late, that the fix was too quick?
You are asking about something that can happen midway through the tunnel; most likely just after the affair, if there is one, is finished; or even before just before the affair/Replay is finished; as the MLC spouse tries to come back too soon, before they've worked out the majority of their issues, yet, their issues must still be worked out within themselves; and your journey must still go on in spite of it all.
By that time, you should be knowledgeable enough in regards to the MLC, to be able to tell if the MLC'er is ready to return to the marriage or not. Your intuition is your best indicator.
Most LBS spouses are so happy to have them return; they ignore the 'red flags' that indicate the MLC'er is nowhere ready to begin to act as a proper spouse...and that includes trying to 'bargain' with the LBS in order to avoid facing their issues entirely; and this cannot be.
Your typical MLC'er is a master at attempting to "bury" their issues; but their problems/issues can't hide for very long before they come back up again; disrupting things once again.
The LBS finds, as time goes on; that UNTIL all issues are faced and settled within the MLC'er; the relationship WON'T even begin to work; and it puts a great deal of stress on the LBS..as they realize their mistake; and the MLC'er starts acting out once again; it is then that boundaries are called for again, and enforced to the max.
If the MLC spouse has left on their own, or even otherwise, comes back too soon; and they're not ready to work on the marriage; they will run again...but you won't know for sure, because of the attempts to hide their problems, until they lose control, act out and run away again.
On the other hand; if the MLC'er is successful at the "bargaining" some of them will try, after a "honeymoon" period or even longer period of time; the LBS will again see MLC raise its head again in the MLC spouse.
Within the crisis; as your knowledge grows, you will KNOW if your MLC spouse is ready to begin initial work on the marriage..but even when this happens, they STILL have a long way to go before they exit the tunnel.
What you need to remember is this: Don't EVER let the MLC spouse "bargain" and try to convince you to simply let it all go..this cannot happen; IF it does, it is only a matter of time before the crisis is picked up again; right where it left off; only worse in the second round than the first.
They MUST face themselves AND the damage they did; and you cannot allow them to get away without this necessary facing.
They will either face themselves or leave; THEIR CHOICE; as you keep the choice on THEIR shoulders; if they want the marriage badly enough; they will face themselves as they SHOULD.
I faced this during my husband's MLC; he tried to get out of facing what he'd done to the marriage, me and himself...but his facing not only included the MLC; but the WHOLE of our marriage; and I held him accountable; setting boundaries in that process..and I didn't let up on him...it caused a big fight with us; but I was determined that he was NOT going to get away with what he'd done.
He screamed at me and threw a tantrum; threatening to leave; but I left that decision on his shoulders letting him know if that was what HE wanted to do, he knew where the door was.
He had never left home, so you couldn't say I'd allowed him back too soon..simply because he NEVER left physically in the first place.
But, to me, this was part of dealing with him as he went through the tunnel..and I knew that if he didn't face himself; this cycle would repeat.
He did break down later; and was held accountable further by me..and until everything was worked out; I didn't let up on him.
They will try and play the 'victim' card; such as "What about all I've been through?" or remarks intended to "play down" the pain they have caused the LBS with their antics.
I remember hearing quite a few things; telling me to drop it; he didn't want to talk about it, and me asking him when WOULD be a good time to talk about it, I want to talk about it NOW.
I made it quite clear that if he wanted to stay married to me; he was going to have to be forthcoming with me.
He wasn't happy about it; but what else could he do; I didn't give him much choice in the matter; either face it; or he could leave if he wanted to..nothing else would do for me; I'd been through too much to play with him by that time.
The point is, you'll KNOW when it's too soon; their actions must reflect the desire to be accountable to you for the damage they've done; and if they're not there; you KNOW it's too soon at that point.
And they must needs to be accountable in ALL ways..especially everything out in the open...they won't tell everything; but it will be enough that you'll know they're sincere.
And positive changes WILL be made that can be seen clearly..if they aren't ready, these changes aren't forthcoming..and they will still be blaming you with THEIR problems that you know are NOT yours; you didn't break them, therefore you can't fix them.
I hope this helps; I know it's longwinded, but I have a tendency to get that way sometimes.
Have a good one.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Your plans for how you'll behave around your H sound perfect. I think that rather than add more items to your list, it's important to make sure you don't break any of the rules you've set for yourself. Instead, be prepared: if he tries to ask you personal questions, or start a R talk, what will you say to deflect him? Are you prepared to listen to anything he has to say, no matter how revisionist or painful, without any attempt to defend your point of view? If you are, you should be just fine.
Nic, about those who come back too soon, I think one clue is that they're still deeply immersed in the drama of the situation--it's still all about them and they're still thinking with the emotional part of their brains, like teenagers. They've come back because they're afraid to lose their "mom" or home base, not because they're ready to do the adult work.
When they're truly ready to come back, there's a sort of calmness about them, as if they know themselves a bit better and therefore are ready to see you again for who you actually are. Perhaps it's also the depression receding. As HB indicated, you'll know it when you see it.
The other part of the equation, of course, is the LBS. I remember periods of desperately wishing H would be "done," while at the same time a part of me told me, he can't come back to me yet because I'm not ready. I knew I had to make all the changes I felt I needed before that.
For a long time, there were questions I was afraid to ask myself, and goals that I'd keep making to work towards. It was only when I realized that I liked who I'd become and that I would be perfectly fine without him, and began to have regular dreams of moving on, that he phoned to say he was ready to work on our marriage.
You sound like you are in a great place. Good luck to you!
Cyrena, I understand what you are saying, except for recognizing the "calmness". I think my spouse is at most taking a few peaks out of the tunnel, or I might just be misreading him entirely.
I have a few images of my life without him, but they are fleeting, and I know I have too much to do yet. There aren't enough hours in the day. There is so much to learn from this board and so many books to read and so on.
Nic1 - 'I have a few images of my life without him, but they are fleeting, and I know I have too much to do yet. There aren't enough hours in the day. There is so much to learn from this board and so many books to read and so on.'
I SO agree with what you are saying, it's funny. You say your spouse is at most taking a few peaks out of the tunnel - I feel the same. He never called or texted to ask me out for that drink. . . I think he just wanted to check if I 'was still there', or maybe he just got scared. Who knows. The best bit about that is that I wasn't disappointed, I kind of expected it. So it's fine.
Cyrena, thank you for your input. I am now exactly where you were then: - "I remember periods of desperately wishing H would be "done," while at the same time a part of me told me, he can't come back to me yet because I'm not ready. I knew I had to make all the changes I felt I needed before that. " THIS IS SO TRUE!!!
Finally, after months of suffering I can say this is happening for a reason and I can finally FEEL it. I'm so much calmer. It's so weird and wonderful at the same time. I cried in bed yesterday morning - I just missed him so much, just him being next to me, his smell and embrace, but I knew, I KNEW the time wasn't right yet.
I still pray everyday that he will eventually find his way back to me but I know that whatever happens happens for a reason.
Well, not even sure they are peaks out of the tunnel. He might just be testing the waters for moving on. He contacted his sister, first time since Christmas, and a friend. I thought his EA with the coworker was cooling off, but that's not the case. So, . . .
Somewhere I read that you need to spend time on the images of life without H - like the house you might find yourself in. Trying, and then a day like today happens, and Bam! Apparently I'm not moving along very well.
