What should I do?

[MsRae]

Yes, I really was.

[Forrest Gump]

"It's a suckers bet."

Well.. It may be J3B. I know I am posting in the "newcomers" section. But.. maybe I am looking for someone to "engage" me.

People always "show" you they way right?

[Forrest Gump]

"FG,

I hope that I don’t offend you for some of things I am about to say."

Why would you assume you might offend me? If you do offend me.. why would that really matter?

"I reread through much of your earlier posts from ’07. You said that your W had an EA with another man. Multiple EA’s. Did they ever turn physical or would you rather not say?"

I look at your post count and really wonder.. if you read it. But.. I "see" your homework.

She has said that it never became P. Do I believe that? No. A big part part of my walk has been the "lacking". She is holding me up to "high standards" yet at times I feel like I can't hold her up to them. I have been willing o put the past behind me to a point. Now.. I just feel like the "past" keeps coming back.

"Why would she have an EA? Did she ever say? I don’t mean to sound harsh, but what was the EA providing her that you weren’t? I don’t think he was hanging out with the kids and doing stuff around the house. Those things ARE important though."

Well off the top of my head she would have one because I was not focusing on her. The OM was.. cause he wanted "some". It would be easy for "someone" to walk in and get her attention. Cause I have not been doing it well. But the amount of effort she is willing to put into "someone" has taken me by surprise every time. I just can't find that "thing" that helps me. I have alot against me. The OM has not "failed" her yet. So I have to be 2x as good.

"Typically an EA that never becomes physical, is to fulfill an emotional need that is not being met. Was that the case for her?"

Maybe.. I am not 100% sure.

"You have said that she is beautiful. Do you tell her that?"

I have not in a long time. Mostly because I just don't "feel" it anymore. She can't seem to "see" that the things I am doing indicate that she is beautiful. My actions never seem to be enough.

"Does she see the porn as competition? It’s hard to compete with a perfect 20 year body that has never had kids. What does she say?"

Yes. Well.. she is not competing with a 20 year old.. who has never had kids. She is competing with someone who has clothes on and is not just laying there naked saying "take me". Again.. I feel like I have made this clear with her. She got all dressed up to go out with the OM. I will assume he got to take it off. That<<<< Kills me.

"I didn’t need him to. Those little things always made me feel like he loved me and noticed me."

I can't say that I have done the things that were in your story.

But.. I can say I have done the things that she has asked me to do. We were having a discussion the other night about this exact thing. She was telling me about all my lacking and how I am not doing right. So I asked her when was the last time she made me "feel" good? Even looking back over the past 4ish years.. she had to say I can't think of a time. If I was playing the WAS card.. I have done alot. She has done nothing.

I can't remember that last time that my wife was happy to be doing anything with me. And I am absolutely sure that I am not sure how to break that cycle.

Maybe I am an a$$.. but she needs to step up some. She needs to figure out what exactly it is that she wants.

I don't really know anymore.

Our C session is this week.. at this point I am just moving toward that. Maybe with "someone" in between us they can decode the code.

[MsRae]

“Why would you assume you might offend me? If you do offend me.. why would that really matter?”

I used the wrong verbiage. I shouldn’t have said offend. I should have said hurt you further.

“I look at your post count and really wonder.. if you read it. But.. I "see" your homework.”

I am trying to shut up and learn. I have read for hours and hours.

“I have not in a long time. Mostly because I just don't "feel" it anymore. She can't seem to "see" that the things I am doing indicate that she is beautiful. My actions never seem to be enough.”

I guess my point is that she may need words and not actions. This may be something that she needs from you and doesn’t even know. Many people don’t themselves very well. It’s easy to point out the “stuff” another person is or isn’t doing. It may be harder for her to admit that she needs to be flattered. It makes one sound shallow, but most people love to hear it. It feels good. I just know that most of my girlfriends would get very wistful when they would see the way my h spoke to me.

“Yes. Well.. she is not competing with a 20 year old.. who has never had kids. She is competing with someone who has clothes on and is not just laying there naked saying "take me". Again.. I feel like I have made this clear with her. She got all dressed up to go out with the OM. I will assume he got to take it off. That<<<< Kills me.”

It would kill me too.

“But.. I can say I have done the things that she has asked me to do. We were having a discussion the other night about this exact thing. She was telling me about all my lacking and how I am not doing right. So I asked her when was the last time she made me "feel" good? Even looking back over the past 4ish years.. she had to say I can't think of a time. If I was playing the WAS card.. I have done alot. She has done nothing.”

Could she be in MLC? Some of what you say she is doing is all over the place.

Wish you well, FG. I read through all of the posts between you and smartcookie. You made me take a very hard look at myself and things I needed to fix that I didn’t even know where there. You have helped many people here and you didn’t even know it. I’ve enjoyed your honesty, the way you respond and make people think.

I hope you find peace and happiness.

[Queen_of_Swords]

"Turn about is fair play I suppose."

But.. my post came across as sarcastic.. or hurtful. Even J3B posted on it. He knew that I was not trying to scare you off. Why did you feel the need to pull back? Why did your words come out golden.. and mine were just "crap"? I used your words. I just inserted "get some" in them.

I felt mocked Forest. I also interpreted this as a not so subtle STFU.

"She's trying to get your attention and not in the best way. I'm having difficulty changing the way I approach things with males too.
We do that when we deal with our kids. We know you're not our children, but switching gears is a little difficult."

I understand the WAW syndrome. To a T. She has said.. "I don't want to be your mother". So why is this all I hear about? Apply my drinking.. and my porn abuse to your thought. Heck for that matter just apply that I am a POS husband. How can I help you switch gears?

Well after a day of giving directives and gaining cooperation from little and wilful people, it's really difficult NOT to do that to you (our husbands) we are sort of on autopilot.
Perhaps an agreed upon personal signal or transition phase for you both? What that would look like would depend on what you agree to. I have a Jewish friend and he explained to me how his wife lighting the candles at Shabbos changed her into this amazing and sensual creature. Maybe something simple like that would help her switch gears?
http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/cjso/Shabbos/shabexp.html
As for your porn and drinking...well Forest - teenage boys ogle porn, teenage boys drink to excess and do stupid things while intoxicated. I can tell you then this woman sees "the boy inside the man" and as much as I find that boy charming and engaging, I don't want him in control of the man.

"4 years? Oh wow...no wonder you're ready to call it a day. I didn't know it was that long! In that case I think she needs to just do it, even if she's not feeling it...she then will feel like doing more of it eventually."

Thanks for understanding. But.. lets take my "needs" out. I am a big boy. I can handle it. I have porn. Give me your best shot on how I can encourage her. Action words will work best here.

I second MsRae here. Affirm her, affirm her and affirm her more.
Why? For every negative thing we hear, you need seven positive statements to undo it.

By the time you're ten years old you've heard well over 60,000 negative statements. Those are all filed directly into your subconcious mind. How many positive affirming things do you think children hear? Not too darn many in comparison to the negative. Don't forget as an adult too how much negativity we are bombarded with daily.

The good news is the more you affirm her (and YOURSELF too!), the more you pull out of that negative frame of mind. I won't lie, this is going to take a while. Do it daily, be consistent and after 30 days you'll see a change.
When you affirm yourself, say it OUT LOUD. Your subconcious mind hears your own voice best and takes it as truth.

I tried to do with my H early on, but I know now that because he is a WAS and in MLC, he could not take it in. What I said/say didn't and doesn't matter.

"Have you asked her how she believes your interactions with your kids should look, given that you "play" with children differently than she would? Have you asked he what her expectations are?"

Yes. I asked her what a perfect day would be. Her response was the days at the beach. We took a vacation this past year with her family. I was up and cooking for everyone. Breakfast, Dinner. It was good times. But the last night there.. I suggested "get some". I was told we could do that when we got home. I am still at home. I am still lacking. I can't be "at the beach" every day. I don't expect her to either.

Oh Forest I'm so sorry. I can see why you're hugely disappointed. I hope you don't use the phrase "get some" with her? I don't know, I'm just saying women prefer things like: " Sweetheart, I want to make you feel as good as I do when I touch you." Maybe read some women's porn to get an idea? (A romance novel or two)

"The time here would be the dedicated 20 minutes or longer you would spend focused and interacting with your kids and only your kids. Not multitasking, not texting while saying "uhmm" as you look at your Blackberry screen and dash off a text. Not being mesmerized by a screen of some sort."

Our stitches are different. Work.. stays at Work. I am sorry that you had to put up with that. I can see how that would leave you lacking.

Thank you for your understanding

[fb2]

"Our C session is this week.. at this point I am just moving toward that. Maybe with "someone" in between us they can decode the code."
Exactly. Hope it does not become a fighting match with the C as referee. Post after session#1 and until you uncover the "code".

[Forrest Gump]

"I used the wrong verbiage. I shouldn’t have said offend. I should have said hurt you further."

I get it.. but.. there really is not much you could say that would "hurt" me. I have lived with "labels" all my "life" both here and in RL. Sometimes I don't get why people are scared of me.. or offending me. You had the thought that you could post something of value.. and you did. I really like that.

"I am trying to shut up and learn. I have read for hours and hours."

I was the same way when I started posting. Good for you for "stepping out". Still kinda am to a point. I am a bit more sure of myself now.. but I kinda think like you do.

"I guess my point is that she may need words and not actions. This may be something that she needs from you and doesn’t even know."

This could be true. I am not really sure 100%. My take on it is that my words and actions are not what she is expecting. I have asked.. she has told me.. I have tried different things but that has not been working. At the very least I was "Doing Work" in early 2008. I can't tell you for sure that I was the one that stopped. It seemed to fade away. With the mind of a DAM (Dumb A$$ Man) I felt like I was clear on what she wanted.. but missed something somewhere. This leads to my "sliding scale" idea. Or to be more clear sometimes I really wonder if she knows what she wants.

"Many people don’t know themselves very well. It’s easy to point out the “stuff” another person is or isn’t doing. It may be harder for her to admit that she needs to be flattered. It makes one sound shallow, but most people love to hear it. It feels good. I just know that most of my girlfriends would get very wistful when they would see the way my h spoke to me."

That would be my case in point here. I like "undressing". If I can ask for that.. why should it be hard for her to ask for whatever it is that she really needs. "Spend time with the kids" takes on lots of meanings. Whereas my thought is pretty simple. This brings on her thought that she has "left me behind". Not sure how to overcome that.

"Could she be in MLC? Some of what you say she is doing is all over the place."

I don't think she is. MLC and WAS have alot of the same symptoms. The biggest difference is that a MLC'r typically thinks of themselves first. By definition I am closer to a MLC than she is. I still think she is just a WAS. She can "see" something better. What that is.. I don't know.

"I read through all of the posts between you and smartcookie. You made me take a very hard look at myself and things I needed to fix that I didn’t even know where there. You have helped many people here and you didn’t even know it. I’ve enjoyed your honesty, the way you respond and make people think."

I miss Smartcookie. At the end there we were not getting along well. She is a fantastic person. She is beautiful. I chose to be me until the end. I was a little bit "hurt" that she felt I was attacking her. After all that was how we became "friends". I don't fault her for her choices. I wish her the best. I "love" honest people.

When I came here and was looking for help I just saw so many "simple" things that could be changed.. that would affect people. Then I thought that if I could effect a change in just 1 person.. that would be my contribution to this place. That idea was fueled by lots of "Emotions" and it did not work out for the best all the time. But in the end I am pretty happy with what I represent "here".

You do know that means you are gonna have to post to more people now.. right?

Cause if I can't make a go of this situation I am in now.. no one will respect me.

Thank you so much for your kind words. It means alot to me that I could help. Even if I did not intend to.

I am just an everyday guy. Trying to make it everyday.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Forest I did write a response to you, but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle somewhere. If you did see it already, no worries.

[Forrest Gump]

"I felt mocked Forest. I also interpreted this as a not so subtle STFU."

It again was never meant that way. I was hoping you would follow the train and come right back at me. I was ready for a beat down. Or at least some hostility. One thing I have learned is that you have to "see" the other side. You have to "see" what the WAS is. Just because my post count beats yours does not mean I am smarter or better than you. I am posting in the "newcomer" section. Everyone can see it. Yes.. I would like things to not be the cut and dry stuff that most people will post. But I don't fault you for doing just that. I appreciate that you took the time to post. Most people won't. You did. My walk here has allowed me to "play" both sides(W/H). I am most likely going to learn from the "reaction" to what I typed out. I am so much better at things "here" than I am in RL because I can digest it and not have to think on the fly. This is why a wall of text is fine with me. I can't explain it any other way than it is just the way my brain works.

"Perhaps an agreed upon personal signal or transition phase for you both?"

See.. I like that. Just not sure how to broach that subject or what to suggest. When I come home.. I am the "Go Boy" meaning I "Go" get dinner.. I "Go" to the store.. I just "Go". By the time I have finished "Go Boy" it is time for her to go to sleep. We used to talk just before she went to bed. But then the son kept coming in. And she would "snuggle" with him. Plus it was way past bed time. (For him)

So work your magic and give me some simple terms there. If you were in that situation with me.. what would you want me to do?

"As for your porn and drinking...well Forest - teenage boys ogle porn, teenage boys drink to excess and do stupid things while intoxicated. I can tell you then this woman sees "the boy inside the man" and as much as I find that boy charming and engaging, I don't want him in control of the man."

Ok.. I made to big a deal about the porn. So just for the sake of discussion lets limit it to my "drinking". 90% of my drinking happens after she has hit the bed. Not recently.. but before all "this" started. Again.. it is a cycle. We are almost where we were in early 2007. The porn use has just cropped up recently. I question somewhat your perspective of the "Boy in the man". To be honest with you.. looking back.. she liked the "Boy" more. Again.. I get it.. just not sure I totally am on the same page with you.

"I second MsRae here. Affirm her, affirm her and affirm her more.
Why? For every negative thing we hear, you need seven positive statements to undo it."

I was gonna grab your whole statement. But.. this I think encompass everything. I know that I need to "Know my wife". But I have to apply that same thought to her. She should "Know Me".

I understand that by being a man I have to bear the burden of doing "more".

Things from my POV at this point are pretty even.

When should I expect "something" from her?

Take away how much "time" is involved on my part.

I mean damn.. I am posting and pouring my heart out to try and grasp at "something". I have said everything to her I have said here. She even said to me the other night that I see you posting on DB.com. She knows my user name.. she can google it up.

There has to be a win-fall somewhere.

"Oh Forest I'm so sorry. I can see why you're hugely disappointed. I hope you don't use the phrase "get some" with her?"

The words in "" came from her.. and her thoughts on what I want.

[Forrest Gump]

"Forest I did write a response to you, but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle somewhere. If you did see it already, no worries."

No text boxes!!.. But yes.. I saw it.