A Lovestruck Romeo Singing the Streets in Serenade

[zengypsy]

I am here again, in a familiar place feeling something I've felt before, wondering why it's still here, why I didn't deal with it more fully before. But I'm glad I have a second chance at it......and I know that if I need a third chance, I'll get it. I also know that if it comes up again, I'll recognize it sooner and deal with it more readily. This is growth. And, I am happy to be Alive!

Kudos!

[FellOnBlackDays]

Denver,
Good to see you in a great mood. I guess today was a good day for many of us. No, no one got a spouse back, but we all seemed to win in our own way today.

I really hope you are doing well and staying warm. I want you to know that I will spend some time tonight thinking over your post. It was incredible and really has me thinking.

Send us an update on your sitch when ou get a chance. Take care, buddy!

BITS never walk alone!

FOBD

[grr]

denver that was a beautiful post, really
glad you are ok tonight
and 2step, your last paragraph is how i am feeling tonight...exactly
i am so sorry you are all here, but glad i found you
goodnight

[Denver_2010]

Update folks...

I am having a hard week. I spoke earlier of unconditional love. I meant everything that I said. But I am still in a place that I find myself doing self speak about how unfair it is that I am willing to give unconditional love, yet my W is not. At least at this stage of her life. I wonder to myself what would happen if the roles were reversed.

I will edit much of what has happened in the past 24 hours for brevity and bc much of it is unimportant.

So last night, Wednesday, I received a call from my FIL. He had purchased 2 tickets to take SS to a Christian rock concert tonight, Thursday. Toby Mac. Anyway, it turns out that FIL was not going to be able to go. He called me to see if I'd be willing to take SS. His call caught me off guard, so i didn't have time to really consider if this was a situation where I should be 'unavailable'. I agreed to take him. FIL called my W to make sure that it was ok that I took him. He called me back to say that it was a go.

I did not contact W about this. I waited for her to call me to plan how i would get SS etc. She called this afternoon and left me a message. I waited a few hours before I called her back.

When we spoke, we had a conversation and she told me that she was having dire financial problems and didn't have any money until the 20th of this month bc of some itunes purchases, $450 worth, that SS had made without her permission. She asked me if I would help her. I know that she was in a panic about this bc earlier in the day she had sent me and SS's father an email explaining the situation and asking us both if we could help her and SS out. It would really have to be bad for her to ask SS's father... I've never seen her do this. I mean she literally has zero money for the next 3 weeks.

I listened to her about the problem and other problems that she is having with SS. He is being suspended left and right from school and in her words, W cannot control him. She mentioned how this was one of the main reasons why she left me... bc our family sitch was not healthy for SS. She said this and followed it with a statement that now things are even worse.

I just listened to her and did not attempt to offer solutions. Nor was I critical of anything about how she is handling him. I have been critical of her in the past for spoiling him. I just told her that I was sorry to hear that SS continues to have problems and that she is having to deal with it by herself.

I told her that I would help her get through the next couple of weeks financially. We finished planning the details for me to get SS and take him to the concert.

So SS and I go to this concert, which wasn't half bad considering that I am not into Christian rock, but that is another story. During the whole thing though, I found myself asking the questions that I described above in this post.

W has left me. May be having an A. These are her choices. Yet I am here to help her when she finds herself in over her head. I asked myself if I am letting W cake eat. This is what it boils down to I decided:

1) W is having an affair, views me as her fallback, and still doesn't REALLY want to work on M. If this statement is true, she is cake eating right now.

2) W is not having an affair, still loves me, is considering reconciliation, and somewhere in her mind believes that our M can still be saved. If this statement is true, then I am just being the good H that I was not before.

Now if I love my W unconditionally, should it matter which of those statements is true? I suppose not. Under either scenario I am doing the right thing by helping my W. And under either scenario, the emotional pain that she is causing me at this moment is the same. The difference is how our situation is finally resolved. We reconcile and I have no regrets about helping her out and being a good H. We don't and I find that A is real, and I feel used, angry and resentful.

This is a real conflict that I am dealing with within myself. True giving of unconditional love is painful when it is not reciprocated. I'm just having a hard time dealing with this internal conflict. I do love my W regardless of how everything turns out. The question is how much emotional harm I can endure myself. And for how long I can endure it. I'm going to have to keep working on this.

Continued update...

So W texts me towards the end of the concert asking me if I can meet her at a Walmart that is in bw my house and her house to drop SS off bc she has been falling asleep and she has to go pick up some medication. I'm okay with this, but I also get angry bc W still will not tell me where she lives. I don't understand this and it feeds my concern that she is doing things that she is not being honest about. I did not say anything to her about being angry and acted "as if" I was perfectly happy.

So I meet her at the Walmart. SS and I go into the store bc she had just got there and was in the checkout line when we arrived. I stand with her as she is paying. She was in a good mood and, again, I acted 'as if' I was too. We joked around a little and it was very 'comfortable' bw us... when I say that, I mean that things are beginning to seem less weird when we have contact than it was a couple of weeks ago when she wouldn't even make eye contact with me.

I walk her out to her car. Tell SS to get in and buckle up. I tell him to be good in school tomorrow. W and I stand outside the car. I give W a couple of hundred of dollars and ask her if that will be enough for now to get her through for a bit. She thanks me.

At that point, she moved in to give me a half hug... I could tell that she was unsure if I would reciprocate it. When she did, I pulled her in and gave her a full hug which she seemed to accept and reciprocate as well. Again, this did not feel uncomfortable. I was very happy about this.

As she's getting into her car, she asks me what I am doing for the super bowl on Sunday. I told her that I didn't have any real plans and said to her "you guys should come over and watch it with me... we can make some queso." I was half joking, but she said that maybe they would. She said that she'd let me know. I could see some real emotion from her... I sensed that she wanted to say yes, but just isn't sure about her emotions right now. We both got into our cars and drove away.

I broke down again as I was driving away and cried all the way home.

As I was changing clothes getting ready to get on the board and start posting this, she texted me:

W: "Thanks again for taking SS tonight and for the money. I feel like an a*s for even asking for help. Talk to you soon."

Me: "I'm always here for you W. You don't need to feel like an a*s... Let me know about Sunday. I hope that you guys will come over. Goodnight."

W: "Thanks for the invitation. I will think about it. I'm having a hard time right now. I will be in touch soon. Goodnight."

Me: "Ok. I understand. Even though I'd luv for u to come over, there is no pressure."

W: "I know. Thanks."

-------

I don't think that I am being used by my W. That is not her style and certainly not her character to do that. She has always been extremely self sufficient and would generally NEVER admit that she needs help unless she really, really does. My concern is that she is cake eating and I am allowing it.

On one hand, she is probably realizing some of what she is giving up by leaving our M. She is hurting herself financially tremendously and is also hurting our M financially. Obviously, having 2 households to pay for is not easy for either of us. But it is much worse for her.

But is that all that is causing her to be "having a hard time" as she told me in her text? My thought is 'no'. That she is seeing how hard I am working on our M and is seeing my changes, and is beginning to doubt her decision to leave. If I am right, this would be REALLY hard for W bc she is so damn stubborn and reluctant to admit that she has ever made a mistake. I think that a concern for her is that if she changes her mind, she will have to tell her close friends who have probably been telling her for the past 2 months how right her decision to leave was. This will be very difficult for her and I feel that this is part of her thinking.

It's hard to put into words the feeling that I have been getting from her recently...Sunday night when we went to the moves and again tonight. It is a feeling of love from her. But I can't really describe it.

I just hope that I'm not making it up.

In any case, the more contact that I have with my W, the worse that I feel. I am so attached right now, that I am again in an emotional state that I cannot think of anything else, can't focus on work, and am irritable with anyone who questions why I continue to be focused on saving my M.

I am struggling bw a feeling of anger towards W for continuing with this game... a feeling of hopelessness when I think about a possible A and whether or not I will truly be able to forgive her for it if it has happened... and a feeling of just wanting her back in my arms. These feelings come in waves.

During the concert, I was thinking that I should just ask her what she wants with our M at this point, and if she told me again that she still wants D, then just to agree to jointly file with her. This is so painful that I just want it to end in some ways... either way.

I am not going to do this... yet. I just don't know how much more emotional damage I can endure. There are moments, like tonight before my encounter with W at Walmart, that I just don't feel that I can continue on like this.

Hopefully, I will recharge my DB battery tonight and be ready for the fight again tomorrow.

BITS
Denver

[Truegritter]

I am starting to realize that the real reason for me coming here is not to win back my W. That has changed. I am now here to win back myself, my character. In the process I am learning what is the difference between hope and detachment.

Good for you 2step.

A nice "step" for YOU.

[lostinscared]

Denver,

Phew... you are all over the place. God, do I know that feeling as I am there too.

As you might have seen by my posts, I'm going down the same path as you in learning about and trying to practice unconditional love. As you can see by my posts, I don't do well with it so please understand, I am in no way, shape or form judging you. HOWEVER, in the world of unconditional love, terms like "cake-eating" do not exist. Things like being a "doormat" do not exist. Go back to the scriptures and read carefully because these concepts cannot exist in the unconditional love arena. If this is the path that you want to take, then you need not beat yourself up about those things. Now, the philosophies here are slightly different, I understand. We've been told here that we do need to practice a sort of tough love and not make ourselves too available. But when our spouse is in need, and we don't make ourselves available, that isn't unconditional love spoken about in the scriptures. So... we find ourselves in a bit of a quandry. I find myself there and we kind of need to make a decision either way and stick with that decision. Above all else, we are being told that we need to be consistent. If we continue waffling between the unconditional and conditional love actions, we are NOT being consistent and that is a recipe for failure.

Now when going through your options, you forgot about option #3: She is having an A, but she still is considering reconciliation. Because if she is having an A, MWD says that it is more than likely this will follow a natural course to failure. That's when it is time for us to really begin our work.

Now, as far as your gut feeling right now... FOLLOW IT. There is nothing I can stress more at this time. My H (before finally deciding to leave) was definitely being kinder to me and I felt that he was thinking about changing his mind. BECAUSE I was so afraid of being hurt even more, I built that wall so high, no one was getting in. I wouldn't trust my instincts there. Turns out, my instincts were right. He was not ready to go and was trying. But I killed any attempt. DO NOT DO THIS. Got it?

Denver, you are going to get hurt if you are right or you are wrong about your instincts. So, now you have to decide what is going to give you the best chance at reconciliation. My opinion would be if you followed the instinct that said she is softening. Go with it. If you are wrong, then you lose her (but you would have anyway). If you are right, then you gave this thing half a chance.

I feel your pain. I am so sorry that you are struggling. We are all here for you. I pray for you.

LIS

[Truegritter]

Under either scenario I am doing the right thing by helping my W. And under either scenario, the emotional pain that she is causing me at this moment is the same.

When you give it without the expectation of return you will not have the pain.

You also will decide when you are doing it to "appear" nice to your W or if it is something you would do for a freind in need.

The latter coming not expecting anything.

Also this can be a slippery slope if you give her "everything" out of love you are not being fair to her or to you.

If you fix things repeatedly for her she will begin to resent you and you her.

KWIM?

So always ask yourself WHY you do something.

In any case, the more contact that I have with my W, the worse that I feel. I am so attached right now

Why do you think your attached and why can't you detach more?

You may not realize this but your W has tremendous amount of guilt for what is happening.

Guess what the number one trigger of that is for her?

Yup. YOU.

Think of her as a turkey that you just put into the oven.

You keep opening the door and poking her to see if she's done.

When you see she hasn't begun to cook or not done to a point you think she should be...

It hurts.

Denver I know this because I did it.

Think of how far you have come in your own growth.

Now think how much help you had with people here...reading...experiencing...questioning and learning.

Your W does not have that. It will take time. HER time.

And it will happen on her pace NOT yours.

You have made so much progress...this next part

Is tough.

I know I got so pissed at the person trying to tell me. I was walking along my path, happy detached little Truegritter until I would interact with my W and feel like sh!t.

she asks me what I am doing for the super bowl on Sunday

She opens the door...

I told her that I didn't have any real plans and said to her "you guys should come over and watch it with me... we can make some queso."

You shove it open.

Her reaction left you feeling...?

You know what to do Denver.

Do better. You can. And you will.

[2stepboogie]

Denver,

I see your thread is up to 111 so it will be locked soon. I will respond to your post because I have some thoughts on it also. I share in a lot of the same emotions, but I will respond on your new thread........

[zengypsy]

Denver-I hope you are feeling better today and are back in full DB mode.

TG is telling you like it is. I have always liked his candor. I personally don't want people to tell me what I want to hear. I'd rather have people be honest, tell it like it is and call me out when I backslide. It keeps me on my toes with all this progress!!!! And we all backslide - we will always be works in progress but just think how far ahead we are of our WAS.

You have made such incredible progress. Like TG said, now comes the tough part. The rollercoaster is full swing!! You know not to expect anything from our S at this juncture. They need to get to where we are in their own way and in their own time. Will they get there? I genuinely think so. When? Perhaps when it's too late for them just as they said to us when they left that our recognition came too late. Karma is a B!tch!!!!

You started to pursue a little bit by keep saying come over, come over. She heard you the first time trust me and you threw it back in her court. If she decides not to come, be gracious and hold your head high. Why? Because YOU have done the work, keep doing the work in making the committment to change. Where is she? STUCK!!!!

[zengypsy]

Denver,

The more I read TrueGriters words the more they make sense to me. When you first read them you say "this guy is good" when you start to really understand them you say "he is also right".

Today was a big day for me as you know. W did the DB session or as I like to call it the 2stepboogie roast and all seemed well. Now what? To tell you the truth I have no idea. I don't have a clue if she got anything out of the session or not. Everything she said to the DB coach she has told me before. She did not disclose anything new.

I think what most people miss is that W and I have been having deep conversations since November. The only difference in the conversation was my state of mind. At first I wanted her back NOW. The longer she was away the less my chances at getting her back. After today I realize that as long as I felt that way I was not ready.

I was not ready because I had not changed, I had not learned, and I had not taken the time to forgive myself for the mistakes I have made. As I heard her talk about all my short comings today something different happened than all the other previous times. I was not upset. I did not hate myself.

I recognize I have made mistakes so have you and probably most of us. So why are we here? At first I came because I wanted someone to show me a way to get my W back. Through others mistakes I could learn to win her over; but something is happening (note I say happening not happened) I am starting to realize that the real reason for me coming here is not to win back my W. That has changed. I am now here to win back myself, my character. In the process I am learning what is the difference between hope and detachment.

I hope my W will come around. But I will be ok if she doesn't.

I hope she can forgive me. But more for her sake than my own.

I hope I can save my M. But I am a better person today than I was three weeks ago or a month ago when I joined this family. You along with others (you know who you are) have inspired me.

2, after reading this, I couldn't have said it better myself. My SIL said to me you know when your H will want to come back? When you have found someone else. It's hard to hear even now and it could be true and it still may not be true. I still can't imagine my life without my H. But I've been living it w/o him for a year and if I'm being true to myself even longer when I was too blind to see.

Bottom line is that we've done the work, continue to the work and we get healthier every day. Since I've been accountable for my part in the dissolve, I feel 10 pounds lighter. Where is my H? Stuck and making bad choices just as I assume all the WAS are.

WE ROCK - let's never forget that!