Is the tide turning???????

[nic1]

Go get him, GAG. You are such an inspiration for so many of us.

Looking forward to an update!

[goodattitudegirl]

Got back a while ago from my TT game with XH. I'm going to journal here as a means to clarify my thoughts. I'm hoping that others may have insights about what I'm writing.

XH was in a good mood when I arrived at the community center. When we walked in, the fellow who works there teased XH that he could come into the community center and stay warm when he arrives, instead of sitting out in his car for 20 minutes. XH said he was talking on the phone in his car and later told me that he had been talking to one of his male employees who is also kind of a personal friend……so interesting that XH made a point of telling me who he was talking to.

XH was in a very good mood……….made me wonder if the birthday party had made him feel closer to me. We joked around and laughed a LOT ---- more than we have in 2-3 months. I’ve come to trust the still, small voice inside my head thoughout this journey and on the way to TT this evening it was telling me to initiate with XH --- so I did. I flirted a lot this evening. It felt like XH’s defenses were down, but when I flirted with physical contact, he didn’t really reciprocate except for once when I patted him on his rear end with my TT paddle and he reciprocated by patting me on my hiney with his paddle (I had threatened to spank him for some reason --- I forget why). This evening I was trying to make more physical contact because it’s my understanding that physical contact makes men feel intimacy the way that sharing emotions makes women feel intimacy. XH didn’t really rebuff my attempts at physical contact. He just didn’t engage…………but I think that I probably planted seeds.

XH DID seem to respond to verbal teasing this evening. I should probably plan more auditory stimulation in the future. I teased him that I had a special surprise for him and he seemed interested in what it was (tease, tease). I had laid a Hersheys kiss on the table next to my purse at the start of the evening and XH thought that was my surprise, but I told him it wasn’t. About 40 minutes into the evening, after we finished warming up, I walked up to him and said “I’m giving you a kiss for good luck”. He smiled and popped the kiss into his mouth. (I gave him a second one later.) When we started playing I began speaking in Spanish and kept score in Spanish. I told XH that that was my surprise for him. He looked a bit surprised, like he was expecting a different kind of surprise (not sure what) but played along. I did my best to roll my “r’s”.

For the first time since the bomb, XH really talked to me about movies we’d both seen in an unguarded manner. I was giggling so hard while playing that I missed a lot of points. I told XH that if he won all the games, he had to take me out for drinks, and that I had picked a restaurant where we could do that. XH said he couldn’t do that tonight, he had been to the restaurant I was suggesting and didn’t love it, and then we talked about different local restaurants. He had only been to one of the restaurants I mentioned. I told XH that one of my new things was to explore all of the local neighborhood restaurants (this is a 180 for me ---- we rarely went out to eat --- I always cooked meals at home)…………So XH engaged me in friendly conversation about movies and restaurants. This really is a change for him. It will be interesting to see if he brings up the restaurant in the future.

XH told me he’d stopped having allergy shots 1 year ago. He is allergic to cats and a lot of other things that trigger asthma attacks for him. When we met, we fell head over heels for each other. XH began getting allergy shots a few months after we met so that he could live with my cat. I’m wondering if this could be one of the things that keeps him away from the house and us (me and kitty)????

When we walked to our cars it was around 0°F. so we didn’t chat long. I got the sense that XH would have chatted longer if it hadn’t been so cold. We hugged and I hugged him just a little longer than would be appropriate for a friendly hug. I could feel him pull back slightly (I saw kind of a panicked look in his eyes) but he didn’t freak out. He kept chatting with me. As he got into his car I said “You owe me a drink. You choose the restaurant”.

I left feeling a bit frustrated. XH’s mood was much better this evening, but I feel like a snail running a marathon. Ughhh!!!!!! Mila summed it up very well:

All I see is progress...slow but progress....if I remove all the details and look at the big picture the bottom line is that your XH wants you in his life more and more and looks for or accepts opportunities to be with you.

As to how to take it to the next/intimate level? Be true to your self, what would the old GAG do in the old days when you were courting? You have the advantage of knowing what makes him tick...what are his love languages...unless the MLC changed him that way too.

Mila, I have been trying to answer this question. When I first met XH, I put up with his grouchiness for a few dates and pounced when he gave me an opening…….and the man I found underneath that grouchiness was a wonderful, considerate man. So far I haven’t seen that kind of opening, and to be honest, XH has been uptight around me for so long, I have been losing “that loving feeling”. In all honesty, I haven’t felt “that way” about anyone. I think that dealing with financial stresses (it looks like I will need to have my patio tree cut down and then my patio redone --- those will be expensive projects) and the long winter have sapped those feelings for now.

I’ve been wondering if I need to pull back more now by canceling next week’s TT game….but at the same time, if GF#2 is out of the picture (and I don’t have confirmation of that), then this would be a good time to generate some positive feelings with Mr. GAG.

It was a long post but journaling helps to clarify the positives and negatives, so thanks for letting me do that here.

GAG

[MHL]

GAG,
Sorry I was MIA last week, was reading along but no time to post. It seems things are going good and BTW, no 2X4's for the interactions with XH's BMF....it all seemed good to me.

I guess I did not realize that BMF was also single....I would think that one of the reasons BMF is less than friendly towards you is that you are threatening the status of his "single buddy". Could be that GF#2 is not threatening b/c your XH made it apparent to BMF that there was no chance of them getting serious. You on the otherhand are a threat to BMF, if XH gets back with you then BMF is "out there" on his own in his "singleness". The only suggestion I would give is just listen to XH when he complains about BMF and validate his feelings, do not offer any "logic" about how effed up the friendship is.....gotta let XH figure that one out on his own.

No posts from me since X-MIL's birthday party because there has been no contact since then. I have waited for Mr. GAG to initiate ---- and this morning he texted me "TT at 6?" and I replied "TT yes! See you @ 6PM". He replied "Roger GAG!", so I texted "Hey! My name is not Roger, but I"ll let you call me that under special circumstances if your like" followed by an emoticon with red lips and long eyelashes. (Planting seeds, planting seeds.)

This is excellent!!! Well played.

...so interesting that XH made a point of telling me who he was talking to.

This is the second time that I can remember that your XH is trying to explain to you who he is talking to or communicating with......

Think about this........ Does he really want you to know who he talking to??????

NOPE

Rather he is communicating "who he isn't talking to" (meaning GF#2)

I would think she is out of the picture especially after last week....TT with you on Wed. and then Mom's B-day on Thursday, Pictures of you guys on the I-pad.....All good indications that she is on the way out if she is not already.

I would agree that you may not need to pursue in the "contact" department........

However

When you guys are together I still maintain that you are going to have to be the initiator.

We hugged and I hugged him just a little longer than would be appropriate for a friendly hug. I could feel him pull back slightly (I saw kind of a panicked look in his eyes) but he didn’t freak out. He kept chatting with me.

Not sure if he was "panicked" because he continued to chat, I would say that you communicated that you want more and he "heard" it. He is probably processing that right now.

I think that if he keeps up the communication that would be a good indication that he is not "panicked" or scared or anything else. I would do just as you did last week and let him initiate contact, that is the only way I would pull back.

When you guys are together again whether it be for TT or something else, I would give him a "hello" hug, stoke the fire a little for the time you are together, don't wait until you guys are parting ways to initiate that physical contact.

I told XH that if he won all the games, he had to take me out for drinks, and that I had picked a restaurant where we could do that. XH said he couldn’t do that tonight, ........

So XH engaged me in friendly conversation about movies and restaurants. This really is a change for him. It will be interesting to see if he brings up the restaurant in the future.

I would let him drive this a little here......he did last time you had mentioned going out to eat one week and then the next week he asked you out after TT. This is a "safe" move for him, let him do this.

I've been wondering if I need to pull back more now by canceling next week's TT game.

NO......do not cancel the game, continue on as is, just let him initiate contact......your part will come when you guys are together.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

I left feeling a bit frustrated. XH’s mood was much better this evening, but I feel like a snail running a marathon. Ughhh!!!!!!

Patience here.....You are doing really good. You are getting the results you want, it is just hard to measure them as they seem small incrementally but overall your situation has improved ten fold.

Keep it up and Happy Little Friday !!!!

Cheers

[Sanderika]

Hi GAG,

I see positives and negatives in last night.

It was very positive for the atmosphere that XH's mood was upbeat and happy and he was receptive to flirting and teasing.
(The experience at X-MIL birthday set the mood for last night.)

It's a positive that he shared who he was talking to out in the car. (My experience has been that H shares when he wants me to know and even more when he doesn't want me to jump to the conclusion that it was the OW.)

It's a positive that XH reciprocated the pat with his paddle to you.....He was being flirtatious and the flirt went both ways in means of attention directed at your backsides. (You made XH think about yours.)

It's a positive that he did not really pull back on most of your attempts at physical contact...this one has a BUT. (See below)

It's a positive that he was able to converse in other things like movies, restaurants, his allergies, who he speaks with. (This shows his comfort level around you is improving and he is letting his guard down...this takes a long time to accomplish. IMO you have a long way to go on this one.)

IMO, when H saw the Kiss on the table and then you said you have a surprise and flirted and teased and then gave him one for "good luck" and then told him that was not the surprise you created an imagination for him, a place he started to wander to, and frankly they could have been very provocative thoughts. It appeared to you that he was "surprised" that it was speaking spanish to keep track of the score. The surprise to him was that it was not one of his "thoughts".

Face it....he's a guy and he's gonna have "thoughts". I believe that you are creating these in him but I caution that he is not ready for his "thoughts" to become reality.

I think it was a positive that you mentioned to XH that if he won he would have to buy you a drink. BUT...it was a negative that you told him you already had picked out a restaurant. It was a further negative that he told you he had already been there and he didn't like it. It should have been left that the drink would not have a schedule or timetable. It was pursuing in appearance to him that you had picked out the place and implied it would be last night after TT. XH was setting a boundary with you by telling you that he A) didn't like that place and B) couldn't do it last night. IMO the message was that he's not ready for too much interaction with you. BTW, this comes direct from my own experiences with my H.

Here's the BUT from above.....It was a negative that on the hug good-bye XH seemed to pull back slightly. I think XH is ready for fun, flirty and friendship type interactions BUT is not ready for a lot of close personal and suggestive contact. I am airing on the side of caution here. I would not rush him. Let the emotions and warm loving feelings generate naturally. Take it slow with him. He's in a place where he is interested in and enjoying you. He's also not willing to repeat history and find himself in a place he ran from.

GAG, I am not trying to give you a 2 x 4. I am fairly certain your XH is quite a bit like my H. They need to see us in a refreshing spirit and body. They need to see us as a "new" friendship first, a place where they are accepted and relaxed. Let time work in your favor. Give it time and patience to grow. Planting seeds is the first step. You still need water and sunshine. Let the warmth and nurturing do it's magic.

I completely understand the status of your "loving feelings". Of course you are discouraged, tired and stressed. This is really hard work and it is not for the faint of heart. If this is really what you want you have to work hard for it. Slow and steady wins the race. I believe that you can reconcile with your XH. It is going to take everything in your being to do it. Your XH is going to keep his guard up around you for a long time yet. He will not let it down until he is convinced that it will work with you again. BTW, this is also from my own experience.

I would not cancel next weeks TT. You need to keep this connection between you and XH going for the feelings to change and the nurturing experiences to have an impact. Let him think about you for the next week, if the game is to be canceled let him be the one to do it.

(((((GAG))))) keep journaling. Overall, I think last night went pretty well. I had way more positives in my list than negatives.
I think you are going to experience a back and forth sort of speak with how we perceive the interactions you are having. I think you are doing really well and XH is thinking about you more and more. Please do not have expectations. That is where we get into emotional trouble and end up really sad. Basically just be grateful for "what is" right now and "go with it"....

You can't do more.....if you think about it......

Have a wonderful week....

Sanderika

[courageous wife]

Hi GAG!!!
I got nothing to offer!
I am just along for the ride and it sure if fun!!!

MHL and Sanderika have this covered!
You are doing great...

but I feel like a snail running a marathon. Ughhh!!!!!!

Slow and steady...slow and steady!!!

[Mila]

Great update GAG - I think that all is going well. I know that you must be frustrated with how slow this process is...don't obsess about that too much, enjoy XH's company, relax and have a good time too, you don't have to see progress every single time you see him...it could even be one step forward and two steps back sometimes. Just continue doing what you been doing, every time you interact with him you learn something and the pieces of the puzzle will come together eventually...

[Lost Rabbit]

Mila is bang on the money there, just enjoy what it is for what it is and see how it goes for a bit now!

[Sanderika]

Hi GAG,

Thanks for your time spent on my situation, you posed some very good questions and insight.

I am wondering if you are ok. I have a feeling that you are discouraged.

When you are ready, we are hear to listen and help.

Have a good week.

Sanderika

PS. I hope TT is still on for Wed. evening

[goodattitudegirl]

Everyone, thanks for your feedback after last week's TT game. I have been trying to find time to post a response. Hope to do that in the next 1-2 days........Can't wait too long. As far as I know, out next TT game is scheduled in 2 days.

Sanderika, thanks for checking on me. You are right that I have been somewhat frustrated, but I am very grateful to everyone's encouragement and support. Things look different from outside the situation than from inside. It's always helpful to be reminded of the long view. I have been thinking and processing a lot. I absolutely know that XH and I have come a very long way from 1 year ago. It really is quite amazing......but I have been thinking that we're coming up on the 2.5 year anniversary since the bomb and H/XH and I were only together for 5 years. That number makes me question how much longer I should invest in my efforts. It's a bit confusing to me because XH IS making forward progress. It is just progress at a snail's pace and I feel that I have probably outgrown him emotionally......yet at the same time, I have no way of knowing that because we haven't talked about Rs at all. He may be processing more than I know............Sorry I'm rambling. These are things that I am processing right now.

I haven't posted before now because I have been VERY busy. I spent about 8 hours last week finishing X-MIL's birthday present. It's finished now and I plan to take it to her tomorrow evening. It turned out nicely.

I also bought an iPad and a new stereo receiver that I operate remotely with the iPad. It receives radio stations from all over the world through my home WiFi. VERY COOL!!! XH took his stereo with him when he moved out so it's been really WONDERFUL to have music in the house again. I also play iTunes and audiobooks on it. Very good for my soul! I spent some time figuring out how to set up and operate everything, so that's another reason I haven't been around much.

I downloaded 4 audiobooks and have been listening to two while working around the house. They have given me food for thought. One book, by Gary Chapman, is called "Love as a Way of Life: The Seven Secrets behind Every Language of Love". The other book I've been listening to is by Daniel Amen titled "Sex on the Brain. Twelve Lessons to Enhance Your Love Life" (almost done with this one --- trying to find ways to flirt more effectively with XH). I think the main take away I have from Amen's book so far is that once familiarity sets in and infatuation begins to wane, in order to regain that dopamine high that makes us feel so wonderful we need to make an effort to introduce novelty into our romantic Rs. I was very guilty of not holding up my end of that responsibility in my R with H/XH. i need to do better in the future. I think that novelty is VERY attractive to XH, so I think that introducing more of that into my interactions with him will draw him to me. I think it will pique his curiosity and make him begin thinking of me as more than just a friend......and if XH and I don't reconnect, it will be good practice for me for my next R.

I have also been thinking about what worked and what didn't work last week with XH. I think that the verbal jousting and verbal teasing worked VERY well with him (ala the TV show Moonlighting). After I posted I remembered another exchange we had that seemed to pique XH's interest. He said something like "This room (the room we play TT in) is full of junk." I looked him straight in the eyes with an playful grin on my face and said "Yea, there IS a lot of JUNK in this room!" Pretty sure XH knew that I was referring to HIS junk, if you catch my drift, because he gave me the kind of look that a guy gives a gal when he knows she's talking naughty.

I think that last week I spent too much time trying to contact XH physically using a direct approach. I think that I need to be sneakier about this and make it appear less intentional, like when I brushed against his leg while he showed me his iPad the week before. Truly, that would be a more genuine approach for me. I am not in a mental place where i would like to have a "make-out session" with XH and I'm pretty sure he's not either.

So........to summarize, my instinct tells me that at present, the winning formula for wooing XH is: (1) introducing novelty, (2) verbal teasing and flirtation, and (3) physical contact that teases and appears unintentional.

Sorry this post was rather disorganized. That's kind of what my brain looks like right now.

GAG

[goodattitudegirl]

Thanks for the attagirls and feedback about my interactions with XH after last week's TT game. Kitty and I spent a couple hours at X-MIL's last night. I finished her bday present and gave it to her last night. It turned out VERY well considering I had no pattern. Her wheelchair now looks like it's upholstered with faux sheep skin, even the arm rests. It should add to her comfort I think.

I guess I did not realize that BMF was also single....I would think that one of the reasons BMF is less than friendly towards you is that you are threatening the status of his "single buddy".

Yes, Missher. BMF has been single since the mid-90’s. He left his W about the same time XH D’ed his first W. I have always thought the dynamic you referred to above was in play. When I told my sister that BMF was at X-MIL’s birthday party and that he was glaring at me, my sister said “He much be quite annoyed. He thinks he just got rid of GF#2 and here you are obviously back in Mr. GAG’s life”.

This is the second time that I can remember that your XH is trying to explain to you who he is talking to or communicating with......Think about this........ Does he really want you to know who he talking to?????? NOPE Rather he is communicating "who he isn't talking to" (meaning GF#2)

I agree. I have also been thinking about why XH plays TT with me. I think our weekly TT games has more to do with him wanting to remain in my life than the actual competition. XH is a MUCH better racquet sport player than I am by far so I don’t really pose any challenge to him……..I was at a clinic party a week ago and one of the husbands was talking about how when he first wanted to date hi now W, he invited her to play golf with him on a regular basis. He said that he really wasn’t interested in playing golf with her. He just wanted to spend time with her…..When I heard this, something clicked in my brain. I think this I XH wanting to stay in touch with me.

Not sure if he was "panicked" because he continued to chat, I would say that you communicated that you want more and he "heard" it. He is probably processing that right now. think that if he keeps up the communication that would be a good indication that he is not "panicked" or scared or anything else. I would do just as you did last week and let him initiate contact …..

Thanks for this masculine feedback, Missher. Well………..I didn’t contact XH after the TT game, but on Monday XH e-mailed my sister and me a one line e-mail about a new TV show. I didn’t reply, thinking I would wait 24 hours,………. then before I could reply this morning I received a 2nd e-mail (a funny, jokey e-mail (not personal)) also addressed to both my sister and me. Interesting……….I replied, telling XH that I had bought an iPad. He wrote “Apple is rife with apps….I'll have to show you mine. Take an evening and just roll through them…..” I’ll bring the iPad with me this evening and see what happens.

When you guys are together again whether it be for TT or something else, I would give him a "hello" hug, stoke the fire a little for the time you are together,….

I will do this ^^^^^^^^^^ this evening at TT.

Listening to Gary Chapman’s audiobook has made me think about how focused I was on myself in my R with H. This happened because I have lived away from my family for 35 years and have always had to be self-reliant. I’ve been through some very tough times and always felt I was living without a safety net.

I think it was a positive that you mentioned to XH that if he won he would have to buy you a drink. BUT...it was a negative that you told him you already had picked out a restaurant. It was a further negative that he told you he had already been there and he didn't like it. It should have been left that the drink would not have a schedule or timetable. It was pursuing in appearance to him that you had picked out the place and implied it would be last night after TT. XH was setting a boundary with you by telling you that he A) didn't like that place and B) couldn't do it last night. IMO the message was that he's not ready for too much interaction with you. BTW, this comes direct from my own experiences with my H.

Sanderika, thank you VERY much for this feedback. I agree wholeheartedly that this was only real slightly uncomfortable point in the evening. Your summary above helped me to put this into perspective. I agree with what you wrote. THANK YOU!!! I appreciate your constructive criticism.

I think you are going to experience a back and forth sort of speak with how we perceive the interactions you are having. I think you are doing really well and XH is thinking about you more and more. Please do not have expectations……..Basically just be grateful for "what is" right now and "go with it"....

Thanks CW, Mila, and Rabbit for your encouragement too.

every time you interact with him you learn something and the pieces of the puzzle will come together eventually...

Mila, this is SO true.

Well……it’s almost TT time. I’m out the door in a few minutes. I’ll post a debrief when I get home if it’s not too late.

GAG