A Lovestruck Romeo Singing the Streets in Serenade

[Denver_2010]

I think you got your head in the right place in a very short time.

It took me much longer to get there.

Thanks for keeping up with my sitch Grit! I really appreciate it. I don't know if you are right about my head being in the right place though. I feel that some days it is, and others it is not.

I know what I want, I know why I want it, and I know what I need to do for myself to give me a chance to get it. What I can't figure out completely is what I am going to do if I fail in getting it.

You have warned me about having expectations in the past. You are right. I know that you are. But how can I NOT have expectations when I see positive progress? It was easier to avoid expectations when my W was having nothing to do with me. It was easier to be more detached when my W was having nothing to do with me.

I just don't know how we're suppose to DB for the purpose of saving M, but also DB for the purpose of our own emotional survival and our own happiness.

Now when interacting with W I see she is questioning your every move.

She doesn't trust your changes and won't unless they are consistent.

I know that she does not. The personal changes that I have experienced and worked on since W left me HAVE BEEN for me and, like I told IC last night, I plan to be very aware of, and avoid at all costs, slipping back into my bad habits and bad behaviors. I don't want to be the person I was before.

I know that i need to continue to be consistent with these changes and HOPEFULLY, my W will come to believe that that they are for real and that they are permanent.

You are still pushing her. With the movie thing.

My advice if you really want to see SS then ask her if you can take him for a couple of hours.

Also I think 2step is right you are too available to her.

They will cake eat at every opportunity.

I saw, or rather I felt, an opening with W this weekend and I jumped for it. Maybe it did put a little pressure on her, but I'm not so sure. While she did tell me that she needed to think about it before agreeing, I found it interesting that she had already looked up times that the movie was playing before she went from "i'm not sure... I feel weird" to agreeing to going with me. I think that she had already decided that she DID want to go.

Or at least I hope that my read on that is correct.

I do agree with you, 2Step, MJ, and FOBD that I may be becoming too available to her. It is just very difficult to say 'no' to an opportunity to spend time with W.

You are doing great man. Make sure your actions are the words you speak.

Thanks again Grit. They will be.

[Denver_2010]

Yes, the roads were nasty last night.

Hang in there, Denver. My feeling is that yeah ... maybe you need to let her come to you a bit. It does seem like things are moving in the right direction ... but unfortunately SHE is the one setting the pace and there's nothing you can do about that.

She's setting the pace, driving the train, etc., etc.... Wow, WAS syndrome is a miserable thing to be on the other end of 1Step. I know that you know. I just had to say.

Thanks for keeping up with my thread man. I am up with your's as well. You are doing a great job! Someone said that you have to be one of the best DBers ever bc you are so consistent. I agree. Keep it up!

BITS!
Denver

[Bolt]

Denver, keep remembering the positive. If your W is anything like mine, she is doing all that she can right now. If you expect anymore, she'll think that whatever she does isn't good enough.

Mine said that!

So learn from that and take what you can and really enjoy that

I think you're doing awesome. Come to these boards to vent (as I did today). It will do you so much better.

Stay strong!!!

[Denver_2010]

BITS - I am feeling extremely down tonight. Actually, I have been for about 24 hours. It is snowing, icy, and extremely cold here in Colorado and my W and SS's schools were closed today, and will be again tomorrow.

I have been extremely paranoid that my W is hanging with OM. I have nothing to base my fear on, but I can't get it out of my head. I tried calling my SS this afternoon to see what he was doing with his day off, he didn't answer his cell phone and hasn't called me back. And, I'm ashamed to admit that on my way home from work, I drove by SIL's house to see if I saw W's car. It was not there.

Are there other things that she could be doing with her day off? Yes.. probably an endless list of possibilities. SIL may very well be at W's house hanging out, she might be at a girlfriends place, or vice versa. I have no idea. But, at this moment, I am so consumed with what my imagination is working up in my head that I am driving myself crazy and driving myself into depression.

I almost feel that I should just flat out ask my W what is going on with OM, if anything, so that I at least know what is real and what isn't. I'm afraid of the answer though my friends. And I know that I'm not suppose to if I am DBing properly.

So, I'm going to journal here instead.. hope for some words of encouragement.. no BSing.. just comfort.

Evidence that my fear and imagination is real:

1) W was spending a lot of time with OM last time I talked to her about it on Jan 2nd - has that changed? I don't know.
2) OM took SS ice skating less than 2 weeks ago - W did not go with them.
3) W admitted in November that he had "caught [her] attention]"
4) W still has not told me where she is living - I have a pretty good idea and have not asked W... but she has not offered info.
5) No statements from W that she is NOT spending time with OM or still talking to him.

No other evidence.

Evidence that supports that my fears and imagination are getting best of me:

1) W has never told me that she is dating OM, sleeping with OM, or even admitted to any kind of A.
2) W has shown concern that I am dating or having A with other women and stated, "we just need to be honest with each other... you need to tell me if you are dating or have moved on" - statement from just a little over a week ago. Why would W say this, but then NOT be honest with me about what she is doing? On flip side of that argument, I haven't asked her directly. Hmmm
3) W has been extremely busy working both day and night with 2 jobs. No time for there to be OM, right? Who knows.
4) W has been warming up to me. Why would this be happening if she was interested in OM?
5) FIL has told me that he has heard from W's mom that W is warming up to me.
6) snooped on SS's cell phone to see if OM's name came up in address book, call log, or text log... it did not. This is something I guess. If W were really trying to get SS close to OM, I would think that his name would at least be there as emergency contact.
7) W still lists me as her H on FB... good, but does not appear that OM is on FB.

No other evidence.

I know that what I am seeking from W right now is validation that my fear of R bw she and OM is nothing. That validation is for me. It really serves no purpose. What if I were to find out that I am right, that there is ongoing A with OM? Will that change what I am trying to accomplish here? And what if I find out that there is nothing going on with OM? Will that change the fact that my W is still WAS? That she still is NOT ready to be M'd to me again?

So, I have to deal with my fears... alone unfortunately... but I have to deal with them. Put them away. OM is NOT worth my time, my thoughts, my emotions, my energy... Nor is he worth fearing. He is nothing.

I AM THE BETTER MAN!!!

Now believe it Denver!! Believe that your W will, or does, see this!!!

BITS - I am so happy to have made new friends in all of you... and it would never have happened but for my WAW sitch... but this really is a walk through the gates of hell. It really is...

BITS
Denver

[grr]

your read on that is probably right, but don't put too much on that.
you are doing a great job and let her steer the ship for a bit and just try not to leap overboard

if she feels pressure she will pull away

patience is truly a virtue right now

it will pay off

have a lovely night

[Bolt]

Letting your mind go is such a painful thing. Take solace in the fact that we all do it.

BUT stay in the positive frame of mind. Look at all the positives and hold on to them. Those seem like facts to me.

The other is speculation. Could you be right? Sure. But you could be wrong too. The problem becomes if it isn't a problem and you bring it up, you run the risk of pushing her further away.

That's how I start to look at things. Really three ways.

If there is something going on, you'll find out soon enough.

If there isn't something going on and you act like nothing is, you will probably be rewarded for your patience.

If there isn't something going on and you act as if there IS something going on, you run the risk of pushing her further away.

So three outcomes:
1 - there is an A and you will find out soon enough.
2 - there isn't one and you do fine.
3 - there isn't one but you successfully push her far away.

The way I look at it, is you can control 2 and 3 by letting her have her space and ACT as if nothing is going on. Play the odds

If there is something going on, you'll be hurt for sure. BUT I don't think you'll be as hurt as you are making yourself feel down about it.

It's painful for sure but try to deal with the facts AND what you can control. I'm sure you'll feel better about yourself this way too.

[FellOnBlackDays]

Denver, it's your ole' buddy FOBD here. Man, I was getting choked up reading your pros and cons list about the OM. If I had a dollar for every time I have gone over that list in my head, I would be a rich man.

We all do what you are going through. We call them at some late hour, they don't answer, BOOM, imagination goes on vacation in some horror house of things that probably aren't really happening. Dude, one night, I was completely freaking out about the OM right before I went to bed. Later that night, I dreamed that I was lost in this abandoned hotel. I was fumbling around in the place and walked into a room with no lock on the door. The room was filthy and had abandoned furniture and broken glass all over. It was a multi-room suite and I could hear noise coming from the other room. I went in there and on a dirty mattress in the middle of the room my wife was having sex with some guy I didn't know. In the dream, I started screaming at her and trying to beat the crap out of the dude she was banging while he was trying to get dressed. Yes, pretty whacked I know. What I didn't realize is that I was actually screaming in real life. I woke up screaming and choking. I bolted for the toilet but didn't make it. I puked all over my bathroom floor...

OK, why tell you this? To let you know that you are not alone in letting this get you down. It is not good to do it, but it is going to happen and you shouldn't feel down are alone in this. Just go back to what I have told you before. When you start to feel this coming on, change your environment. Go call a friend, get on here, watch a movie, leave the house, whatever. These "imaginary affairs" are your enemy right now. They distract your mind from taking care of you and working your Db'ing plan.

Look, the other day my mind started to get the best of me. So, I asked myself how can I "turn this grain of sand irritating my mind into a pearl" just like an oyster does in the wild. I really started pondering this thing and it hit me. Here is the convo I had with myself:

Me: When did you go out and buy the DR?
Me2: Well, the day after I found out about my W's little texting extravaganza with OM.

Me: OK, is he close enough to her right now to touch her.
Me2: No, he is not.

Me: So, is he an immediate threat?
Me2: No, not really.

Me: Have you not learned a lifetime of wisdom from the DR?
Me2: Yes. Oh, dear god, YES!

Me: Would you say the R with your W has gotten better or worse since you began DB'ing?
Me2: Better, much better.

Me: So, let me wrap this up. You find out about OM, panic, buy DR, join forum, get smarter, change behavior, blow wifes mind with "new" you and now you can talk with her in person for the first time in months. Sound good, so far?
Me2: Yes, very good.

Me: So, in a way would it be unfair to say the presence of OM might have pushed you to conduct a change in yourself that may in the end actually save your marriage? Hmmm?
Me2: Holy crap, I think you are on to something.

Me: And would you have bought the DR and started changing your life without the sudden appearance of OM?
Me2: Probably not.

Me: So, what is the problem here. Sounds like this idiot sneaking into your life may actually save it.
Me2: Whoa, you just blew my mind...

Now, this all seems a bit funny, but it is true. There is nothing wrong with playing little games like this with yourself if it gets you through the day and puts you in a better frame of mind. Will it work all the time? No. But it is better than sitting there miserable.

Easy does it, buddy. Whomever used the "feeding a squirrel" analogy was right on. No sudden movement, no leaping forward. I know, I have felt it too. When my W gives just opens a crack in the window that would let me see into her world, I want to leap through it like Jean Claude VanDamme. But we can't do this for the same logical reason why we can do this in real life. If someone came bursting through your window right now, you would go for a gun, not a hug...

BITS never walk alone!

FOBD

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Denver,

How did it go last time you jumped to conclusions?

[Truegritter]

What I can't figure out completely is what I am going to do if I fail in getting it.

What is your definition of success?

How can you fail in getting it?

[2stepboogie]

Denver,

The OM syndrome. sigh.....How do you keep your mind from wondering? That my friend is a good question when you figure it out you let me know.

I second what BOLT was saying there are only 3 possibilities here

1. You are right
2. You are wrong
3. Or you W could be testing the waters without actually having a PA

In the end who suffers? You do. You've read my situation you know that I also have a vulture flying around looking for a meal. That's ok. At this point I do not believe W has really done anything, actually I am convinced of it. Does my imagination get the better of me? Yeah sometimes.

The way I look at it is very simple. I will continue to DB until I no longer care to. If I am successful I will know if there was a PA, if there was I have two options......

1. Forgive and piece the M together
2. Hit the delete button on the last 10yrs and move on.

If there wasn't then my W is the woman I thought she was and I will piece my M together one day at a time.

I will probably choose 2 because that has been my personal benchmark since I began. We each have a breaking point, a point where we will stop and move on. A PA affair in my case is mine. What is yours?

The point is, it doesn't matter what is happening right now because you can't control it. It is like worrying about global peace or some BS. Concentrate on what you can control and the other pieces will happen whether you want them to or not.

I do believe our imagination is much worse than reality.