I see too where LL is setting herself up to be a WAW and that's okay I guess if that's what is BEST for her emotionally. After all, isn't that exactly what her H did? Didn't he build a list of excuses for his misery and pain in the M before he trodded off into the sunset with an OW. Didn't he remind himself everyday how unhappy he was, how he knew SHE'D never change, how THEIR M would never be better.
Well, that's where LL seems to be headed. Reminding herself that it's useless, that nothing works, nothing changes. LL is building HER case against HIM and their continued R.
We CAN convince ourselves that our life with someone is poison for our well being...that's exactly what our cheating spouses do as they begin stepping over the line into thier fantasy life.
As for staying for the 'sake of our children'...that's what cheating spouses tell themselves they're doing when they are betraying us but still coming home after they've left their lover to slip into OUR beds.
It's not about the kids though is it, because our kids feel the fall out from the unhappiness of their parents. So the kids aren't being fooled into thinking their mom and dad are okay....we're kidding ourselves and it's a cowardly way to act to stay because WE FEAR the 'unknown'
M isn't a prison sentence it's a choice. We either CHOOSE to stay and make it better, or we CHOOSE to go and make life better for ourselves. It's really JUST that simple. T2
though I value your in-put I don't think you understand...I do stay for the kids at least for now..because if I were to leave h (as he wont leave the house and is pretty damn clear about that stament "I'm not going anywhere, if you can find a better place to go then go" nice huh? nice way to show your w that you really do give a crap about her) right now I don't work, I am home with the kids...my leaving or forcing him to leave would not only force the kids to deal with one of their parents not being here it would also mean day care and mommy at work and a whole new life for them..not really the life I want for them...then again neither is this one but I do hope for a more positive change than what seems to be the path.
you are right h did convince himself that nothing would change...but the real kicker is it wasn't LL that he needed to have change it was himself...his words...upon my trying to explain how it hurts me to be blamed for his having an a and leaving...it wasn't me..it was th stress of building a home and having kids.
ah so you see..LL didn't ever really stop her journey toward being a waw...she's just shut up and made alot of exuses with the help of db.
will h ever change??? probably not..will I ever just accept things the way they are? probably not. SO that's that I guess...I am making no plans I am keeping no track record on h's actions or inactions...I am however paying attention to the actual relationship and how I feel in it and if I don't feel like I have a friend or lover in the r then how can h?
it is impossible for me to believe that h just isn't the r type...unless of course his time with ow was simply spent shaggin (and he denies any sexual contact with her ever took place) it would seem to make sense that he is capable of showing someone that he cares...and that person just isn't me no matter what package I put it in or how many bows I try to decorate with.
Quote: I've asked directly for what I want (and it's not much)I've explained how it makes me feel that he seems to not care enough to meet some of my needs in the r.
That is something that my ex never did. You have done well in that respect and deserve credit. And I like that you say some, not all, of your needs.
As for you being a miserable person, I don't see that at all. You seems to have a fun gene. I know you to be capable of intelligent conversation. And you do have fire in your belly. I like that.
Maybe, next time he says call a lawyer, say ok if that is how you feel. Then totally eschew any advance he makes towards you. Then when he tries to say something, you may say hey, if your attitude towards me and this marriage is so cavalier then I guess there is nothing left to do than to end this marriage and let the chips fall where they may. Then just go about your business and give him nothing.
As for your garbled message, I know the kids are there.
LL, you are a good woman - bright, attractive and fun. Get the best life that you can have.
LL, You obviously still have some feeling for this man. You sound angry in your posts and VERY frustrated. I know how it feels to tell them what you want just to have it ignored or worse yet, turned against you. Have you thought about writing him a long letter explaining all you feel and your hopes for your future? It's easier than trying to have a conversation, and you can lay it all out on the table and he doesn't have to respond if he doesn't want to, but at least he'll know how you feel. You have alot pent up inside of you. I guess you can stay for the kids, but wouldn't it be better to stay for the kids and for YOURSELF? It seems in your case baby steps could make a huge difference. I've said it before, but I'm a firm believer that the only thing you can do to change your H is to change yourself. You have to have the desire to save you M though because, it's hard enough to do when you DO have that desire. Treat him like you want to be treated. I KNOW you don't think it will make a difference, but I think it will. Maybe not right away, but if your consistent I think he will respond. If your staying in the M for whatever reason, you might as well fight to make it better. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain at this point. Come on LL, go for it! Rachael
I don't know if I should actually be writing to you since you've just left my house angry at me but I don't know what else to do. It seems that whenever I try to tell you how I feel about our relationship you just get pissed off at me and we end up in a big fight, you leave and I feel worse because I know you don't listen to how I feel you listen to what I say makes me feel that way. When I tell you taht I am unhappy and that the reason I am unhappy is because I am bored and tired and feel insignificant/unimportant not very interesting etc. when you do certain things that you do ie. watching football (or other sports) watching the weather, falling asleep, not wanting to do things w/me or even talk to me. It bothers me more that not only do you do those things/or not do things you don't realize how they might make me feel, and even when I tell you how they make me feel you continue to do them because you want to. that is when I feel as though you don't care how I feel, like I don't mean anything to you anymore.
...
when we first met we enjoyed eachothers company shared eachothers interests because they were new. In the begining we where very concious of eachothers feelings and didn't know just how the other would react to certain things. There was a comfortable amount of give and take. Now after 4 1/2 years we are each comfortable enough with eachother that we fail to realize that all the little things we do that hurt eachother aren't insignificant...
....
You want to I know you don't realize how what you do effects me and that it is not intentional but it still hurts. I just wish you could spend some time to really think about how I feel...
I don't mean to blame you for everything and I'm not. I am simply pointing out how what you do effects me.
that was written as stated above in 1993 I was 20 then it was 4 years before we married...now I am 30 married with two kids and nothing has changed infact it's gotten worse.
writting letters or lists is a waist of time. talking to him is a waiste of time... going about my own business is a waiste of time (in terms of the r cause it only serves to foster more distance and ultimately resentment) I cannot treat him the way I would like to be treated because he doesn't accept it...I'd like to go out..he doesn't typically want to...I'd like to play a game of darts and have a few drinks in the basement..he doesn't want to...I'd like to hug him and kiss him...can't deal with that rejection anymore...
LL< I see why your discouraged, but that letter was written a long time ago. You say he won't except the way he treats you. He HAS TO! He has no control over how you treat him! Rachael
how I treat him and how I'd like to treat him are two different things..and I've treated him both how I'd like to be treated and how he likes to be treated (with the exception of asking for what I want)..
I've done it all...
just becuase I come here and piss and moan doesn't mean I do any of it here...infact h is often shocked as hell and wonders where the heck that came from when we do have a "conversation" about us and how I feel...
I smile when he comes home... I show interest and support in his work I listen to him complain about work (let's not forget I am not allowed to complain about the kids driving me nuts cause wao..watch out h and other's will throw it back at me at another time so I have to stay positive all the time) I cook for him clean for him do his laundry for him..
I could really go on all day but I'm not going to...there is nothing that I can do to elicite change in him cept for get pissed and fight with him..then he'll do a bit of a dance and I think things are turning around but nope their not...
here's an example...now last night we argued and there was no making up....
he has my car today and the kids aren't feeling well so instead of me just taking the truck and the kids to do the food shopping I called and asked if he would be home in time for me to go food shopping with my car and possibly without the kids...sure!
huh? no, well I have to do this or that first when I get home...no well can you feed them first...no as long as you get back in time to put dd to bed...no nothing just sure I should be home by 4....
Quote: he has my car today and the kids aren't feeling well so instead of me just taking the truck and the kids to do the food shopping I called and asked if he would be home in time for me to go food shopping with my car and possibly without the kids...sure!
huh? no, well I have to do this or that first when I get home...no well can you feed them first...no as long as you get back in time to put dd to bed...no nothing just sure I should be home by 4....
LL
So...is asking directly and clearly for what you want (not sweeping life changes but "I need to do xyz today and need this help from you") different than what you usually do?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
So...is asking directly and clearly for what you want (not sweeping life changes but "I need to do xyz today and need this help from you") different than what you usually do?
Sage
NOPE! I am the queen of direct...don't think ya could be more direct than me...his response today was probably a result of our "conversation" "argument" last night...instead of him saying anything he will do things like this for a bit to get on my good side and just when I do think to myself oh ok he really does genuinly give a crap about me and doesn't think the world revolves around him and his needs...poof...back into that self serving sleeping on the couch guy again.
and (((((((((( LOSTLOVE )))))))))) 