HB, Cyrena, Cadet, - thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post. I appreciate it so much. You must be cyber-angels :-) It's a lonely place. Why is it that MLC seems like such a cliche? I cannot really talk to any of my friends about it. I've been reading about it alot and I've been thinking alot.. as for GAL, yes, I do get it and I'm working on it...:-) Every day.
I have so many more questions but I am so confused that I don't know where to start or where to stop. I've started writing another post and deleted it - it made no sense whatsoever!
HB- I couldn't seem to find your story anywhere- I'd be interested to read about it.
After 10 days of no contact I had a text from him yesterday morning saying 'Morning x I was wondering if i could pop by on way to the bank to say hi."
I was so shocked that I said I was still in bed but maybe another time?
I will need to try to sort out my head but will certainly be back soon with more questions.
HB- I couldn't seem to find your story anywhere- I'd be interested to read about it.
You won't find it, as I've been gone for years; I came back last year; because we'd hit a "bump" in the road that interrupted his processing, but that's been resolved as of last week.
You'll find my initial story on the "Sermons thread, lessons and all" that I wrote many years ago..in "The Importance of Establishing a Timeline".
This is in the Resources thread that Cadet posted.
Now, understand that the timelines in the MLC stages I wrote; aren't anywhere near the length of time it can take to come out of the crisis.
I went through a six year transition, seven, if you count the settling down process I went through afterward...it lasted from 2002 to 2008..so, you can see that I didn't hold with the timeline, either...so, I discount it when speaking of the stages.
This is a long, hard road to walk; and the lessons are important to learn as you walk your own journey to wholeness and healing.
Really, what you'll need to do is get on with your life AS IF; he's not coming back...in that process you'll metaphorically leave him behind, just as he left you behind.
It can serve to bring him forward; along with what you learn about yourself; plus learning to set proper boundaries on what you will and won't accept in his behavior toward you.
There are NO guarantees in this crisis; the only guarantee you will ever have is change, and growth as you move forward.
If he decides to rejoin you at a later time, that would be a bonus for you; if not; HIS loss, not yours.
The decision to return to the marriage or not, lies on him; but you can ALSO decide to end this at any time you choose.
You will find that you have just as much power as he does; you will be taking back your power as you realize you have it.
One day at a time, one step at a time; in this process, you will find yourself once again.
Take care.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Thank you HB. After 4 months, I'm already having some good days in between :-) I've also started bikram yoga, and I'm hooked! The first 2 lessons were so intense that I started crying during relaxation, it feels amazing. I can only recommend it.
I would like to get some thoughts from some of you guys here on my sitch. Maybe you can help me determine whether my H is in MLC, suffers from depression or simply wants the easy way out and has turned into a coward!!
Just so you know - I only found this website a few weeks ago so I know now that I made many many many mistakes at the beginning - !!! ouch.
Just to recap. Got married 18 months ago (together for 10 years). started talking about having a baby. came off the pill in the summer. not - so - easy situation with his grown up daughter from previous relationship living in italy (time and money issues)- but nothing major, just the usual hicups. 4 months ago one big argument on the phone and off he went. hasn't been home since. I'm struggling to make any sense of his behaviour. I just need to share it with someone, I'm sure all of this or similar has been here before... during the last 4 months we saw each other maybe 6 times:
first 2 times: hour long walks in the park, him shouting and screaming at me, everything is my fault, in the last 10 years he has 'compromised time with his daughter because of me ' 'he wants to be a free man again like he was 10 years ago', 'he can't see a future anymore'
(I have never seen him that angry EVER. he's normally very calm and collected. very.)
needless to say nothing I said helped. I cried. alot. didn't understand what was happening.
3rd and 4th time: kind of the same but a bit calmer, still, everything is my fault. he can't get over 'all the things I've said and done'
5th time: tried a different thing, went out on a 'date'. had a lovely evening. no R talk. he let me stroke his face. came 'home' after for more wine. left again.
6th time: came round for dinner. thought everything went well. started talking about R again. had a good feeling about it. felt like something had changed in him. hugged me before he left (I couldn't hold back the tears again) and said: 'I'm sorry. I just need to get some things right in my head'.
I texted him when he was on the way back to his mum's house. I said 'I love you' in the text (NOW I know - wrong!) - BUT he replied saying I love you too! So - that made me happy. Thought I'd cracked it!!!!
We spoke again a couple of days after that. I got upset on the phone. I cried. He spoke in a very soft voice and said 'listen, I know this has been hard for you, I can see it now, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm going away again but I will see you when I get back. (sounded like my OLD H for the first time in a looooong time)
I was pretty sure he would come back and that he was planning to return home. Silly me.
So - he came back 2 weeks ago and straight over to see me. BANG. he said "We need to get things sorted. It's just better for us to be apart. It's just better this way. I thought my feelings might change but they haven't. It's too late to fix things now. "
Obviously, and stupidly, I didn't expect that AT ALL and it hit me like a hammer.
I must add that he has been backwards and forwards to Italy to see his daughter maybe 5 times in the last 4 months. (Where normally he would have gone 2, 3 times a year). The last time he came round he had just returned from Italy.
He also says he wants to be part of his Ex-GF' s family again (his daughter's mum's family), that he has missed out on that because of me. He wants to 'live his life for his daughter now' - that's what he's telling some friends of ours.
After I last saw him (2 weeks ago), I decided it was time for me to 'detach' from all this mess and just said to him in an email that 'I accept his decision to be separated, that I didn't agree with it but I accepted it.'
I haven't seen him since.
I had one text and one phone call from him (withheld his number!!) over the weekend, both times he wanted to 'pop by' the house, either to 'say hi' (???) or to pick up his post. I said 'no' once and once I wasn't in anyway.
I'm trying to keep busy, GAL, work, rest, meet friends and all that. My life is getting better every day. It's just that I do worry so much about him.... This is what confuses me the most:
- He is just not himself. There's an invincible 'wall' around the man I once knew. - He's ... cold. Most of the time. And sometimes he's not! - He doesn't seem to have the slightest clue how his behaviour seems completely weird to everyone.. He's upset everyone and doesn't seem to realize it at ALL. He still says 'give them my regards' to me for my mum, my dad and friends when he knows I'm seeing them....when everyone is really pi**ed off with him for how he's treating me!! It's just so strange!!! Its driving me mad! - He's 'hiding' from our friends... some of them have tried to get in touch with him, or go for a beer, to get to the bottom of his weirdness but he always declines saying he's 'too busy' - he's still paying 50% of the mortgage, regularly, into our joint a/c. (phew) - his post is still being delivered here - he has hardly picked up anything from the house. most of his clothes are still here, so is everything else. - he contradicts himself all the time.
have I married a ghost?
and what is my next step? get on with my life and see what happens? we're both invited to a concert next weekend. is it a good idea for me to go if I know that I will bump into him? If I do, how do I react? Kiss on the cheek and then ignore him for the rest of the evening?
This is so weird, he's my H!! And I miss him so.
Writing this has already helped ;-)
Sorry this is confusing.... Thank you for reading....! xx
It's all driving you mad, because you ALLOW it to drive you mad.
It's him, not you; and since you didn't cause it, you can't fix it.
Quote:
BANG. he said "We need to get things sorted. It's just better for us to be apart. It's just better this way. I thought my feelings might change but they haven't. It's too late to fix things now.
They think because the feelings they had don't come back in a short period of time; that they are lost forever.
The feelings they have are "buried" deep within themselves; and almost unreachable for a LONG time...that is also an issue they face within; they KNOW instinctively something is wrong; but instead of looking within; they look outside of themselves for answers that cannot be found; UNLESS they look within.
This is your still husband on the outside; but not the man you once knew on the inside; at least for awhile...forgive yourself for all of the mistakes you made; and go forward; you cannot change the past; therefore, you don't need to beat yourself up for what you cannot change...you can ONLY go forward; and do the best you can.
At this time, he doesn't know what he wants; and you can't give him what he THINKS he wants; nor can you fix him..you are human; not divine.
For everything you "fix" there comes about another issue for him; and it is an endless cycle; until you get your focus OFF him; and put in on yourself; holding firm; regardless of what he says that is "wrong" with you.
They make "controlling statements" designed to keep the LBS trying to do SOMETHING that pleases the MLC'er, but NOTHING will work...you can only detach, distance; and work on yourself FOR yourself, NOT for him.
In the end, he either accepts your changes; or walks away; HIS CHOICE; but the JOURNEY within yourself MUST be taken, regardless.
Quote:
and what is my next step? get on with my life and see what happens?
That's the ticket; get on with your life; work on yourself..take the time given you to grow and change...don't expect anything; but hope for everything.
And know that all things are in the Lord's hands to work with.
There is always hope as long as you love your husband; but in time, since there are NO guarantees; you must reach the place in yourself that you will be just fine, regardless of what happens.
Take care of yourself; all the while moving forward with your life...he will either follow, or not..but you must understand that the decision to return to the marriage or not lies on HIM, and not you.
This is the uncertainty that upsets and confuses people...but it's true, I lived through it; learning that I would be all right, no matter what happened...left him alone; got on with my life; until he decided to begin to participate with me in our relationship.
I didn't talk any "R" talks for a very long time; it became enough for me to just exist; work everyday; and take care of my family...leaving the rest to the Lord to deal with..I recognized my powerlessness; but I also recognized my own strength and the power I really had to end this any time I chose to.
Love was why I stayed; and I took my vows very seriously..in the end, I made up my mind that I was NOT going to be the one who ended the marriage, HE was, IF he chose to.
There came a time that I wanted him happy, EVEN if it wasn't with me; I couldn't "make" him happy, anyway; and he did find happiness within himself later on, just as I had done.
Like I said, it was a LONG HARD ROAD; it was VERY painful to look within me; and see someone who needed a TRUE emotional overhaul; but I worked on myself steadily until I overhauled everything within me.
What seemed to be even MORE painful, was when I saw my husband for what he really had been; in that process, my rose colored glasses fell off and shattered on the floor. I realized he had NOT been the man he should have been....and then, once I processed this through, I had to decide whether I would really WANT him back.
Yet, the Lord counseled me; telling me it was best to try and keep what I already had..it is possible to jump out of the frying pan into the fire; getting someone MUCH worse than I had.
He was right in all that he told me; as I'd known people who had divorced their spouses; and ended up with worse than they had.
After thinking about it for awhile, I decided to go ahead and stand once again for my marriage, come hades or high water; and though, it still took time; I now have the marriage that I always dreamed of...my husband is a much better man than he was beforehand.
The journey becomes ongoing; and the growing, once started, never stops.
There IS a light at the end of the tunnel; and it is NOT the proverbial runaway train.
Either way this goes; you will have gained MORE than you lost; but you won't see this until hindsight kicks in.
All you can see right now is that he's acting strange; and getting stranger as time passes.
Again, don't worry about him; get your focus OFF him; and onto yourself; detaching and distancing from his drama..there is NOTHING you can do to help him at this time...and the more quickly you detach from him; the more peace you will attain within.
Let go, let God do His work..and all else will fall into place, given time.
MLC is a process; and that process MUST be completed within; before anything else is done going forward.
Though you feel you are on "hold", standing is NOT being still; it is being active; and taking care of yourself.
Take care.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
HB is one of the best on this site--I hope you get a lot from her insights.
You ask whether your H is in MLC. One of the best indicators is, did something happen in his life which triggered the change in him? The death of a parent or a friend, a severe health scare of his own, some devastating loss??
Also, were there issues from his childhood that were never resolved--some kind of abuse, dysfunctional parenting, etc? These are typically at the root of MLCs.
HB- thank you again for taking the time to reply to my long and confused post! I cannot thank you enough. It gives me a great sense of relief to see that there is someone out there who can relate to what I'm going through. I guess I am not the only one looking for 'answers' or for a 'solution'. Knowing that there isn't one - and there isn't a quick fix to his 'problems' is just sooooooooooooo frustrating. It makes me want to bang my head against the wall. But I'm ok. I'm learning a lot about myself (e.g. I have always been much 'better' at taking care of others than taking care of myself, I always put someone else's needs first, including my H's...), I am asking myself questions I would have never asked myself, and I'm getting stronger every day. It's a scary journey. I do NOT want to live my life without him. I have taken the decision to stand for my marriage a while ago and I will try to be as strong as I can for as long as I can. Every day is different but it definitely helps to check in here every now and then. :-)
Cyrena, you were asking if there was a 'trigger'... I can only guess here but I think the fact that his daughter turned 18 in August 'hit him' - made him realize how quickly time had passed. He also didn't go over to Italy for her birthday- on the actual day. something he is now blaming on me, although he was the one who - in the end - DIDN't GO. I didn't stop him, I just allowed myself to have an opinion about it as we had taken her on holiday and organised a big party for her here in the UK only a couple of weeks beforehand.... so that didn't go very well. I guess there were probably many things (the business he had started only a year ago didn't do well at all, he ended up having no money, I really wanted a baby... which he wanted too but deep down inside it scared him ...) I think all that 'pressure' just became too much in the end and he just couldn't handle it anymore... but as I said, I'm only guessing.
Who knows. I realize now he never really opened up about anything to me.
I know we cannot turn back time but I am praying that we will have a second chance. One day (soon please?? ;-))
With an MLCer, there isn't a quick fix because the issues which they need to work out took years to make, have festered (and been consciously ignored and resisted) for so long--generally at least 2 or 3 decades--that they take a LONG time to fix. Plus, the process of working oneself out of a depression is not a speedy one.
In the meantime, it's wonderful that you're starting to look at yourself, to recognize your caretaking tendancies (shared by most MLC spouses when they first arrive here) and your communication issues, and to begin to work on them.
I know that right now it looks as though this is happening to you for no good reason. Perhaps it would help to try to think of this as an opportunity: to understand your need to caretake and figure out healthier ways of relating to others before you have children, to examine why you had a marriage where one partner never really opened up to the other and figure out how to prevent that in this or future relationships.
There are people on this board whose spouses have had a quick fix and come back to them fairly rapidly. What they discover is that, until all of the issues have been dealt with by the MLCer, it is impossible for their relationship to work out. Consider it this way: the MLCer was always a ticking time bomb, carrying the seeds of this depression inside him. Isn't it better that he's dealing with them now, rather than after you got pregnant, right after the child was born, when the child was a toddler who couldn't understand why Daddy abandonned her, etc.?
I hope you will get your second chance, and that it will make this time of pain worthwhile.
Hi Cyrena, yes, I see what you're saying and you're right. These things do happen for a good reason. I think I'm lucky as I think I can say I am quite a positive person and after the first 3 months in complete shock I feel much better about myself and I feel like I am more ready to face the situation and deal with it properly and as 'myself' (no more drama, no more begging, no more crying!). fingers crossed.
You say caretaking tendencies shared by most MLC spouses? Is that so? Is that why 'this' is given to us, because we can deal with it and 'sit it out'??
It's funny as I've always thought I've 'put up' with quite a lot in my relationship (my friends kept telling me that as well) with H being away constantly, for work and to see his D, him sleeping at his Ex's house whenever he was there... I put up with things many other W's or GF's would not have put up with I'm sure. For him.
Hence I ask myself sometimes: But why me? I really wasn't a bad W! ;-) Makes it even weirder... The things he complains about now (wants more freedom, doesn't want to compromise anymore etc) - he really had a lot of freedom in this relationship. It's almost funny.
I've got more thinking to do.
Do any of you have have the feeling that their brain starts to 'itch' from all the thinking??? ;-)
MsRae - thank you for your message. I just read your story and posted on your threadx
"You say caretaking tendencies shared by most MLC spouses? Is that so? Is that why 'this' is given to us, because we can deal with it and 'sit it out'??"
Well, apparently we marry people whose issues mesh with our issues in such a way that we are what David Schnarch calls "perfect sparring partners"--together, we create dynamics which force us to become emotionally more healthy (and therefore satisfied with our relationships). We force each other to make the changes we need to make. So "this" isn't really given to us to sit out--we need to work on ourselves while our partner works on himself.
The thing about caretakers is that they tend to ignore their needs because their needs were ignored when they were children. They hope that if they rescue/help others, they will get the love they seek, and feel great about themselves. So, they need to learn how to feel good about themselves without being codependent on other people. Also, they need to learn to allow others to stand on their own feet without needing to be rescued (because the people being taken care of come to resent the "martyr" stance of the caretaker).
I'm sure that as you read the various situations on this forum, you will see all the ways in which the LBS overcome their caretaking tendencies and begin to live more authentically, which will get you thinking about what you'd like your life to look like.
You say you "put up with a lot" in your relationship--was this really what you wanted to be doing? Is this what an ideal relationship really looks like, in your heart? Or was it a case of caretaking--putting his agenda ahead of yours to feel good about your generosity and open-mindedness? It's worth thinking about.
And, yes, people here find themselves thinking in a way they've never done before.... But scratching this brain itch does lead to new insights.
