i have only been married for 3 1/2 yrs and have 1 D with my wife. i would guess our problems started in the spring of '09. our D was born in oct '08. we were living in the northern part of the state and would travel tovisit her family in the southern part. we were planning on moving by her family when i finished college in may. my W and D moved a month before me. when we moved down we had sold our house up north and were living with her mom, an uncomfortable situation for me, until we found a place of our own. i didn't like going from having a house to living in a bedroom at her moms. i retreated up north to my friends and family often that summer and purposely missed many events with her i.e. a wedding, 4th of july, a company picnic. i was so foolish and took her for granted. she tried then to tell me she was unhappy but i blew it off and believed it would all be ok when we got out of her mom's. finally in the end of august we were able to buy a house and move out, unfortunently at that time i lost my job and had to take a new one that had me traveling alot. i was still blind to her feelings. finally one night in oct she sat me down and told me that she wasn't sure if she was in love anymore. it hit me like a rock, i panic. for the next few months i did everything DB tells you not to do. i was always around, brought out wedding albums, and did everything she wanted with no opinion of my own. things just fell apart more. finally in january she told me that she wasn't in love anymore and wanted out. we agreed to stay living together until the house sold. we usually spent our weekends taking turns going out while the other person watched our D. in march my W had a company work party at a bar and would be out all night. the next day she was acting strange, i kept after her until she admitted that she kissed a guy from work. he works a branch in the indianappolis but was visiting. i blew up, felt like i was gonna die. we went on living together with the house not selling. in spring we she slowly started to ask me to come to things with her and our D. i was delighted. i had been backing off and not preasuring her about our M. in mid july we went to this big town party with her friends and danced, laughed, and kissed. she told me she wanted to get back together and put our bands back on. i was on cloud 9. we started out great. even took the house off the market. but both of us avoided our issues, especially me, because i think we felt they would just go away. we had good times and a few times my W even wanted to discuss having another baby. we hadn't been saying "i love you" and i pressured her to say it before i would talk more about a baby...i feel this was a big mistake! i was missing all of the small signs. in the end of oct i could feel us pulling apart again. our sex life had dropped off, she was acting distant. i panic again and began always trying to kiss her or hug her...huge turn offs to her. in the beginning of nov, i finally got a new job were i would be home every night. a week into she came into the kitchen in the morning and said we needed to talk that night. i noticed she wasn't wearing her ring anymore. that night she told me that she couldn't keep going like this and wanted us to be over. she said she just wasn't in love anymore. she has been living with her mom since mid nov and has put the house back on the market. i hoped it wouldn't last but has. i wrote her a letter, tried to contact her alot and did everything short of begging her. i found out that that guy from work was back in mid dec and they have been having an EA/PA. i am crushed! we split time with our D. she often texts me when i have her and tells me how much she misses her. she invited me over for thanksgiving and x-mas since my family lives hours away and she said she didn't want me to be alone for the holidays. i found DB after x-mas and read it immediately. i wish i had done this a year ago, i truly feel my marriage would be different. i'm trying a 180/ last resort tech. i have joined the gym, started hanging out with friends more, and not preasuring her about our M. i have seen small signs of improvement. one day i stayed home from work to watch our sick D, my W brought us breakfast before work and actually stayed to eat with me insted of rushing off. i felt things were going in the right direction until i talked to her on the phone the other day. i have my daughter this weekend. in our conversation my W told me that she would be out of town this weekend. i asked were she was going and all she would say was out of town. i became very defense and we argued for most of the rest of the call. indianappolis is about 7 hrs away so she must be flying. i feel i am back at square one. i know my weekend will be horrible with little sleep and terrible thoughts. how do i keep going? i want to saved this marriage! what do i do now?
iwllbd1, First, let me say "Welcome." Second, let me say how sorry I am that you are here. Third, let me congratulate you on taking the initiative to buy some reading material and help yourself instead of just wallowing in your pity. Fourth, relax. You have stumbled into the best place to be right now. This forum is full of folks just like yourself. Lost, hurt and don't know what to do. Heck, I am one of them.
Please understand, when applied properly, the techniques you read about do work. This program is not a "one size fits all," but it does work if you pay close attention to how you use it. So, have some faith and follow the instructions. You will start to see some positive progress, I promise.
Over the next couple of days, you will probably be bombarded with replies from folks on here trying to help. Read their replies. Every single day that I come here, I find some wisdom or some guidance that I can use in my own situation. Over time, you will find that your situation is not unique at all. And, that is a good thing because you should not feel alone in this. We are all going through this together. Take some time and read my original post. It was entitled, "I failed miserably." It is kind of long, but read my opening post. Not only will you see that our situations are very similar, you might also notice they have followed the same time line. Heck, I got a chill just reading your story because it was so close to mine.
None the less, you might here from Denver, 2stepboogie, Lostandscared, Dixiegal, Onestep, MJ144 and many others. They are all good people who are going through the same thing.
Please, spend some time here. It will help. I came here very skeptical. Now, I am a believer!!
Good luck, my man. Just remember, with a situation like this, the only easy day was yesterday. Keep your chin up!
Fellonblackdays
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
Just dropping in to Welcome you to the rest of your life! DBing is where you need to be. This is now a journey that the rest of us will help you with. We gain strength from each other everyday so make sure you come back and write everyday.
Sending you big hugs...
Me:35, 2 kids from PR H: 37, 2 kids with me T: 15 years M: 8 years in Feb. Second walk out: 14-01-2011 H had PA: 2007
Thank you all for the advice. i don't have internet at my house, only the library, but am trying to get on here as much as possible. Somehow I made it through the weekend. She texted me on sat to see how our d was. I know she misses her terribly. On sunday she called in mid morning and asked to talk to her. My d didn't really wanna talk, I thought the conversation would be over, but she wanted to keep talking. We talked for about 15 min and had a pretty upbeat talk. I hung up feeling good. Even sent her a picture of our d and dog together. She immediately replyed how much she missed then. Then at about 1, my d was napping and I checked updates on fb on my phone. She had posted a picture of just him standing there on her page in a bears sweatshirt bc we are packer fans. It completely ruined my day!!
On wednesday she called me on her way home from work to ask if i had recieved any oil change coupons in the mail, we often do, i told her i wasn't sure since i wasn't home. she then initiated a long conversation about our D2, expressing her concerns about how our day-care lady had noticed changes in her. my W made a small remark about how she wishes she could be with her everyday instead of her going back and forth. i calmly agreed but didn't say much beyond that. i figured it is better to not push anything right now. that night we were both watching idol and sent a few humorous texts back and forth. she always did like my sense of humor. What could this all mean?
FOBD i searched your thread "i failed miserably" but wasn't able to find it. i would really like to read it. also i am an "old" air force man and like the B.I.T.S. stuff. hope i can join the club. thanx
It is kind of long, but give it a read. You will notice two things. 1) Our sitch's are very similar with the exception of the fact that we did not have children. 2) You will get to read all the good advice I picked up from others. There is some great stuff on there.
As for the FB picture, ouch. But don't let that derail you too much. Remember, you have history with her, he does not. Come here as often as you can. I have been on here for three months and I always find some good support here. I feel for you buddy, so I am officially opening your membership into BITS. All you have to do is sign off with "BITS" each time and we will know that you are part of the club. I guess we have close to 10 members now. I hope you can find some peace here.
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
IW - I saw your post on my thread and wanted to catch up with you. It is very late right now, so I can't write everything that I want to for you right now. I will try tomorrow. Please remind me on my thread if you don't see anything from me. Your sitch is similar to mine and I do have some thoughts.
In the meantime, I'm going to repost 37 DB rules that I found when I first came here. They helped me a lot when I was first starting, and still do. Read them, then read them 100 more times. Learn to live and breath by these rules... talk to you soon.
BITS Denver
Here ya go:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
"damn i like your attitude denver. "What I do know is that OM is in for a big disappointment. He's not going to destroy my M or my family. I will prevail." PERFECT way to put it. i have a similar situation. my thread is "young couple with WAW". i hope you get a chance to read it. i would appreciate any feedback."
Hi IW. In response to your post on my thread... first, thank you. I do think that having a positive attitude is important with this whole process. If you're having problems with that, just give it some time. It becomes easier. And certainly becomes easier as you begin to see some victories, even small ones. Your confidence will build. But it all starts by how you view things.
I've learned an awful lot since the bombs were dropped in my sitch and coming to this board. I started off in a terrible place. Someone described themselves as being in the fetal position... that was me. I cried for nearly 3 weeks straight. I thought that the world was going to end if my W didn't change her mind.
The first thing that I've learned that I'd like to pass onto you is that: the world is not going to end. The sun will come up tomorrow regardless and you will still have a life to live. If our W's do not come back, we will have to choose, 1) live a happy life, or 2) live an unhappy one full of regret and bitterness. I think that everyone in our sitch should think about this choice from day 1. Which life will you choose IF your W does not come back to you?
Secondly, I think that we all have to decide what we are willing to do and go through for our W's, for our M's. What do our M vows mean to us?? I know for me, when I got M'd, I didn't REALLY think about the vows. They were what they were. When faced with my sitch though, their meaning to me hit me like a train. I realized that they were a matter of personal integrity to me. I asked myself, when I told my W that I'd always love her, did I mean it? If I didn't, why did I say it? Did I mean it when I said that I'd be with her during good times and bad, through better and worse? If I didn't mean those words when I spoke them, what good is my word with anything? I read Truegritter's entire thread, all parts, and it really helped me process my feelings on this. But for me, I decided that my word is my honor... so for me, this is the "bad" this is the "worse times" that those vows refer to.
If one decides that their vows are meaningful to them and that they meant them, the next questions are what are you willing to endure and what are you emotionally capable of enduring? Being a LBS is a rough, rough thing. It is not for the weak that is for sure. The pain that I endured in the early weeks of being a LBS felt as bad as an actual physical wound to my heart. I literally felt pain and shock. It does get better, but the pain endures for weeks and weeks, months and months, and, for some, for years. How much are you willing to endure for your W, for your M? It was either Timeheals or Truegritter who asked rhetorically on some thread, "Are you willing to walk through the gates of hell for you W"? Bc that is what you will do if you choose to take the DB journey. I am choosing to walk through the gates of hell for my W. But that is my choice.
As I'm sure that you have seen, there is a lot of talk about detaching on this forum and in DR. I have struggled with this concept and the different definitions for it that you will see out there. To me, it really means getting your mind off of what your W is doing, thinking or feeling. To get yourself to a mental and an emotional place where you do not worry about those things. At first, I thought about day and night. I could not concentrate on work or anything else in my life. I did work on detaching, but have never fully detached in the true sense.
Detaching IS important for you to do at least to some degree. Especially in the early phases of being LBS. It will help you get to a place where you are emotionally stable so that you can function in the other aspects of your life. It will help alleviate some of the pain that you are experiencing. And it will help you mentally prepare for the mountain that you are choosing to climb if you choose to DB. You need a lot of emotional and mental strength to do this, and detaching helps you get to that place.
What I have found though, is that, for me anyway, detaching does not have to be an all or nothing proposition. For me, detaching has been:
1) the realization that I love my W unconditionally, 2)that she has free will, 3)that I want her to be happy in life, 4)that I cannot control her choices or actions, 5)that I only control mine, 6) and what happens in this period her life without me will not matter in the long run... whether or not we end up back together.
Once you understand unconditional love, you can say to yourself "I want my W back, but if that is NOT what she chooses, I can accept her free will, still love her, and still hope that she finds happiness." At the same time, you can also say, "I will also choose to try and find happiness for myself." Once you are here, and I admit that at times I am while others I am not, you will find that your interaction with your W is not so focused on your own wishes and desires. That you are able to also understand where your W is emotionally and mentally. That, right now, she does not want to be married to you. This will help you when you have interaction with your W... You will be able to better to 1) listen to your W; and 2) validate her feelings. These 2 things are something that you need to learn to do. And they are weapons for you to use to DB. There is plenty on the board to read about them.
At this point, you choose what you will do with your own life. I think that you have 2 options. 1) Let go of your hopes that your M will be saved (I think that this is really complete detachment) or 2) to proceed with your life by doing things that will continue to give hope to the possibility of reconciliation. You can choose #2 with the idea that it will be an indefinite period of time that you will do this, or you can give yourself a timeline which includes milestones where you decide that you will reevaluate the situation.
For me, I chose #2 and have given myself a 6 month milestone, where I have said that I will reevaluate where things are. At that point, I again will choose bw #1 and #2 above. The reason that I chose to give myself a date certain to reevaluate, is bc I believe that my own happiness will have to be a priority again. My own dreams and goals in life will have to be recognized and addressed. At some point, if there is no reconciliation, I will have to seek happiness somewhere else... I will have to seek complete detachment.
OM or OW in WAS sitch definitely complicates all of this and makes reconciliation much more difficult. If you've read my thread, my W did have an EA with OM (even though she has never agreed that it was A). And, to this day, I do not know if that ever progressed to PA and do not know the present status of that R.
I really struggled with the fact that OM was in the picture with my W. My ego took a severe hit... still does. Throughout my life I have ALWAYS said that I would never, ever tolerate my W having an A of any kind. Well, since it has happened, I realize that we can never really say how we will respond to a traumatic situation until we find our self there. When we do, we realize that there are so many factors and circumstances to it that it is not as black and white as we previously thought.
For me, it was the fact that I realized that I had been a terrible H to my W. While there really is no excuse for an A, I drove my W to it. I also realized that my W is human and makes mistakes just like we all do. My W has a very high moral character, but she is human. I had created a situation where our M was a very lonely place for her. I was not fulfilling what she needed in her life. I allowed her very human weakness to be exposed. OM saw the opening and took advantage of it. That's what OM and OW do. They are predators with very little respect for themselves, the sanctity of M, or their fellow humans. Most likely bc of their own emotional frailties.
After much thought on this and much self reflection, I realized that I did not want to succumb to the threat of this predator. I had created the danger to my W and to my family, so I have decided to defeat it. I look at like it is an infection to my M... a virus.
If I had done all of my thinking and self reflection and came to the conclusion that I had been a good H and that OM was the result of some moral flaw in my W, I think that I would have made a different choice. But, like I said, that is not the case. If I had been a good H and not made my W's life so lonely, she would never have allowed an A to occur. Never.
So how do we defeat the predator, get rid of the infection... by being the better man/woman that we know that we are. That is what I chose to do. And it all circles back to loving our W unconditionally and accepting the choices that they are making RIGHT NOW.
Be the better man - This is where you apply all of the DB techniques that you read about.
GAL - this is about enjoying your own life and helps with detachment, but it is also about becoming a better person. A person who is not unhappy, predictable, and bitter towards your situation. Those are all unattractive qualities and don't help "being the better man". GAL helps you have a PMA... helps you have some happiness in your life... makes you seem less predictable... makes you exciting... helps you smile a bit. These ARE attractive qualities, and do help you be "the better man".
180s - Being the better man includes figuring out where you have come up short in fulfilling the needs of your W and your M and fixing them... in yourself. What is it about OM that your W finds attractive? OM is definitely meeting some need that your W has. Whatever it is, you need to start working on it, doing it, doing a 180.
Be the man that your W fell in love with. That person IS the better man when compared to OM. Your W married you!!! NOT OM. Once upon a time, your W chose you as the better man... over all men!! Be that person again! I cannot stress this enough.
These are the weapons that we need to use for this WAR. And don't let anyone fool you, that's what this is if you choose to fight it. You don't fight it with ultimatums to your W, threats to D your W, personal threats to OM, or other tactics that have been referred to on this board as the "hard line approach".
You fight it by showing unconditional love... by being the better man...
I hope that my perspective helps. Good luck man. I will continue following your situation. Now go crank up the volume on some "this is war" by 30 Seconds to Mars or whatever upbeat music that gets your adrenaline flowing and get to the battle!
BITS!! Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
It amazes me every time I come on this site and see so many people, who have never even met me, give me so much support that obviously comes right from the heart. THANK YOU TO ALL!!
Well this was my weekend without my D2, so headed to my uncles 2 hours away to help him do some logging on his land. My W texted me to tell me she was going to come over to get our D2 sled and asked me if I was home. I just texted back that she had mail on the counter and that I wasn't home. I went to work in the woods and didn't get back to my phone until noon, when we broke for lunch. I had 3 missed calls from her and texts asking were the sled was. She left me an angry vm, saying how mad she was that I wasn't answering my phone. I called her back but she didn't answer. I left her a vm that told her that I was working and not at her beck and call. I also told her that had she told me about the sled even a day before, I would have had it out for her.
She called back shortly, telling me that she had to go buy a new sled and that this was just like me to never answer my phone. I told her the same points I did in the vm. The conversation was tense but in the end I told her to enjoy her day with our D2. This put a damper on the rest of my day. I just kept playing the situation over and over in my mind. That night I decided to text my W, as we often do, to see how our D2 is doing. Which I feel has become a way for each of us to break the ice and start a conversation. Anyways, she sent me a long response, first telling me our D2 was fine, then preceding to appologize for her vm. She said that once she knew I was working, she understood why I couldn't answer. Also that she was frustrated because me had not often answering my phone has always been an issue for us. She is right. I always knew this bothered her but was foolish and ignored her when she would tell me how much it bothered her. I have realized this and have been trying hard to correct it. I texted her acknowledging that this had been a problem and reminded her that I now rarely miss a call. we shared a couple other nice textes about our D2 and then wished each other good night.
Tonight she called me to talk about some changes in our D2 day care schedule. We taLked about the upcoming snow storm. I made a remark about how I can never snowblow the driveway when I had our D2. My W actually said she would come over and watch our D2 while I got the driveway cleaned out. We chatted a little more and I made sure I was the one to end the conversation.
I feel I am beginning to see small signs from her which is encouraging. I am keeping my cool and working on patience. I truly believe that if I had read DR a year ago, I wouldn't be in this situation. I will post my list of goals on here soon and keep everyone updated. God Bless
