Living Like Roomates 2

[Gnosis]

Hi Punchy, I'm an old-timer who managed to save his marriage. I drifted away from the forum a while ago. I'd like you to think about the following:

1) The fact that she continues to see the OM

Q1: Why should she stop seeing him if he meets her needs?

2) No update from her as to the status of our relationship

Q2: What makes you think you're entitled to one?

I would like to confront her on this, but am not sure what the impact would be.

Q3: You've confronted twice before, what would make a 3rd, 4th or 100th time any different?

Is this the quick path to divorce?

No. Divorce is always a LONG painful process. Will this lead to divorce? There are no guarantees to anything in life. What works in one situation does not necessarily work in another.

Should I just hang back and hope that their flame dies out?

I don't think you understand the power and influence of the mind. This (according to you) has been going strong for 18 months.
Q4: Why should this change?

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

The best advice I can give you is this:

STOP LIVING IN FEAR.

Fear cripples your ability to make decisions.
Fear forces you to swallow bitter pills.
Fear prevents you from living your life.
Your spouse can sense your fear.

Perhaps I missed this in one of your threads (and yes I read all of them)...
Q5: Has your W ever backtracked from her statement of living together for the sake of the kids?

I hear this forum is heavily moderated and I hope this message gets through to you.

IMHO I think it's time you went into a modified form of the LRT.

[punchy]

Thanks for the comments. Wife has not back tracked from her statement about staying for the kids. However, the last time we discussed the R was back in early December almost 2 months ago.

I agree that OM is meeting her emotional needs. I have offered to go to MC to address my shortcomings in this regard and she has refused. Pretty tough to meet her emotional needs when she has this emotional wall between her and I.

I have thought about the LRT, but in my mind that would look like I was reverting to my old self except for the anger part. Not sure how far to go with this? What is your modified form of the LRT?

In my mind, I am not living in fear. If she wants a Divorce, then I am more tha willing to go down that path. Living like this is painful and I am only doing it for the benefit of my kids. My wife has not even apologized for her EA. I just want to know whats going on so that I can move forward with her either in or out of my life.

[coldwinter]

Punchy,
I would do Nothing. Continue being the best you can be.

We both know this can't go on indefintely, but for now the ball is in their court. It is so hard for me not to confront my W about some of her actions. Sometimes I just want to be very blunt and tell her to make up her mind already.
Then I read somewhere here, "If someone wanted to shoot you, you wouldn't hand them the gun!"

My W over the past couple of weeks is now coming home an hour or so later from work almost every day, even my D is asking me,"where is she and what is she doing"
My response is; Don't know , Don't care. But of course I care and the uncertainty about our future kills me. Once again this is my W's mess and I'm not goin to get sucked in.(not easy)

I started taking a couple of courses at a local comm college a couple nights a week. I actually started them last year but when the bomb hit I put everything on hold. Not anymore, they are subjects I was always interested in when I was young
but never had time for.(supporting a family, chasing a career etc.)

All of a sudden while at my wed night class I get a text from W,"hoping I have a good night and drive safe on the way home". Yesterday while at work she texted me again "hope your day is going well, only 2 more days till the weekend!"
I'm thinking whats going on here, she never texted me before. I didn't reply, but I told her last night I rec'd them and that was nice.

I'm bringing this up because up until now there has been very little progress.
Is this progress?, for me it is, but I have no expectations, she could change tomorrow.

Punchy, is it fair to be strung along like this? Absolutely not! We have to be the stronger ones now, they are still working things out on their timetable and I believe they are very confused on what to do. Lets not give the OM any ammunition.

Keep working on you and stay busy, don't let your emotions guide you, use your head.

Oh! and one more thing, my W 2 months ago told me that she knows contact must stop and would be moving her things back in our bedroom, guess what.... believe very little what they say now.

Sorry for being a little long and hope this helps.

Cold

[Gnosis]

Thanks for the comments.

You're welcome and I hope I can help you.

Wife has not back tracked from her statement about staying for the kids.

I didn't think so. She has everything she desires for the meantime. She has no reason to change the status quo.

However, the last time we discussed the R was back in early December almost 2 months ago.

And if I remember correctly she told you she would think about it. She did... and chose not to answer.

I agree that OM is meeting her emotional needs.

True, however he is not meeting ALL her emotional needs. When that happens she will move forward with the D.

I have offered to go to MC to address my shortcomings in this regard and she has refused.

You're doing too much pursuing. A lot of your behavior reeks of pursuit. That book you mentioned... that 40 days one. In all the time I've been on the board I have never seen it work with a WAW once.

Pretty tough to meet her emotional needs when she has this emotional wall between her and I.

I understand your driving desire to do this. I know the "burn" and the pain of rejection. While she is involved with the OM in whatever way, means or form your efforts are mute.

Yes, she acknowledges some of your changes and tells you that. Makes you feel good... but then she stops short. That's because she does not want to give you hope. She has made it very clear what she wants and she is just waiting for you to accept it because in her mind "you just don't get it."

I have thought about the LRT, but in my mind that would look like I was reverting to my old self except for the anger part.

Do you see the fear here? I do... it's pretty apparent. You're scared to do this because you FEAR that this will drive her away.

If she wants a Divorce, then I am more tha willing to go down that path.

You're NOT LISTENING to your W. She does NOT want a divorce either.

Her desire (and probable plan note: I "AM" mind-reading here) is to deceive the kids that you are a big happy family until they are out of the house, thereafter she can D you. There used to be a question bandied about where the LBS was asked that went something along the lines of, "Is this the marriage model you want to teach your kids?" It was controversial and had pro's and con's. But now we're getting off topic...

Living like this is painful and I am only doing it for the benefit of my kids.

I know.

My wife has not even apologized for her EA.

Most do not. At least while they are still involved IN the EA.

I just want to know whats going on so that I can move forward with her either in or out of my life.

I hear you but you are NOT listening to her again. Listen to her ACTIONS.
You already know whats going on but refuse to listen. Why do I say this? Because your W has told you what is going on. She is having an EA and she is going to continue the EA (in secret.) You have received your answer via her silence.

I'd like you to SERIOUSLY consider this question. Put yourself in her shoes and think: What reasons does she have NOT to continue with the status quo? She can more or less do as she pleases. The only consequences to her actions have been you becoming nicer to her. Your W is happy with the way things are and in her eyes you're starting to accept it because you're being nice to her. She has nothing to lose, does she?

Not sure how far to go with this? What is your modified form of the LRT?

I don't have "my" version of the LRT. In your situation you cannot go completely dark on her because you're both under the same roof. Another reason you cannot do the LRT "as prescribed" is because you have kids.

You will need to "tailor make" your own version of the LRT and going dark on her. One of the DB mottos is "Do what works and stop doing what doesn't."

So...

1) Confronting hasn't worked.
2) Pursuing (doing things for her... e.g. breakfast, flowers etc) hasn't worked.
3) Worrying about what she is doing... the same.

Here's somewhere to start on creating your custom LRT:

1) In all your interactions with her be: Cool, calm and collected. Nothing phases you. That means: You DO NOT become angry, sulky, grumpy and any other behavior that turns her off.
2) You avoid drama AT ALL COSTS... this means if you can't handle it... walk away. Cut the conversation short.
3) Stop satisfying her Emotional Needs - she has OM for that. AND NO YOU DO NOT TELL HER THAT.
4) You STOP EXPLAINING things to her. She's a big girl, if she doesn't want you stop forcing yourself onto her.
5) You STOP sharing with her what is going on with your life. When asked you give her a "gray answer" e.g. "Nothing much"
6) You GAL like a mad man... and I mean it. Avoid her at ALL costs. You don't want to be around her... and not because you're sulking... but because you are BUSY ENJOYING your life.

Those are six points to start on. You have the book, read it and tailor it to your needs. REMEMBER: This is for YOU not for WAW.

The most important thing here during the LRT is that you are the 4C's and impeccable in your behavior.

[punchy]

Thanks Cold, this is very helpful. I was feeling very emotional about this last night and was prepared to jump off the ledge and have the R talk. As you suggest, I need to do nothing other than work on myself.

I needed to hear it from someone on the Board that this is the right approach. Everything in mind is telling me that the best approach is to confront. I was looking at some other sites and they recommend full confrontation and full exposure. Pretty scary stuff and most likely a quick path to divorce.

Thanks for the advice and direction. It is very helpful to have the advice from people on this Board before taking action. This is a painful journey, but one that I can get through with support such as yours.

[punchy]

Thanks Gnosis. This is really thought provoking. I really need to absorb and process this. You have given me some great insight into where I am. I do agree with you that I am fearful of what she may think if I stop doing these things. On the other hand they have not generated any change so why keep doing them.

This will be a big step for me and maybe that's what I need to do for me right now. I need to accept where she is at with the OM and move on.
This is a more aggressive approach then just doing nothing. I liked the doing nothing approach because although this is a painful place to be, it is better than a divorce.

I am going to re-read your response and figure out where I need to go. Many thanks for this.

[Gnosis]

We both know this can't go on indefintely,

You're mistaken. It can.

but for now the ball is in their court.

Because you have chosen to put it there. We are human beings and we have freedom of choice. How we choose to exercise that choice is what determines our lives.

It is so hard for me not to confront my W about some of her actions. Sometimes I just want to be very blunt and tell her to make up her mind already. Then I read somewhere here, "If someone wanted to shoot you, you wouldn't hand them the gun!"

I agree with this to a certain extent. If you are doing this to "blow off steam" is a NOT a good idea. You have to determine what the purpose of confrontation would be. You have to weigh the consequences of the confrontation. Both good and bad. If your purpose is to lay down a boundary then be prepared to face up to the consequences.

Let me share something with the two of you... it's so obvious that people miss it. Everything you do has consequences... everything you DON'T do has consequences. For that reason you have to weigh your actions and in-actions. Determine the results of both and choose the ones that yield the most favorable results.

I'm thinking whats going on here, she never texted me before. I didn't reply, but I told her last night I rec'd them and that was nice.

I'd like to touch on this because it's very important.

Don't UNDERESTIMATE the power of silence

You have felt the affects of it by being shut out of your WAW's life. I'll let you in on a little secret... it works BOTH ways. Too many LBH's try to fix this by "talking." Talking does not work. Talking about feelings is a feminine trait. Masculine traits are taking action, trying to fix etc.

Try the power of silence. Coldwinter is getting a taste of this. The moment you stop pursuing and stop "talking" i.e. making noise WAW's take notice. Then they want to know what is going on...

So what do LBH's do? They open up and share IMMEDIATELY... thinking the WAW is coming around. Once her curiosity is easily satisfied she turns around and carries on with the status quo. Don't open up so easily.

Let the silence be your friend for a change. Stay dark. Don't open up. Don't talk too much. Stay mysterious and be elusive.

I don't come here often and I've spent too much time already. I'll share a few more things with you:

1) Your fears of losing your WAW's is a lie. The truth is you have already lost them. The sooner you can honestly come to terms with this the easier it will be to DB.
2) Don't take a temperature check every day. Women are emotional creatures... their feelings fluctuate faster than alternating current. Instead LOOK FOR CONSISTENCY in their behavior and actions over a set period of time: two weeks at least.
3) Beware of false reconciliation where they say what you want them to say in order to get you to "get with the program". When a WAW wants back in she is glaringly obvious. She will pursue you and try to reassure you on her own accord. You don't need to spell out what it is you want. She will WORK to convince you that she is being sincere. Watch out for crocodile tears.

[punchy]

Thanks for the advice and the time you spent here today. I feel much better about my situation then I did earlier today, Many thanks.

[Denver_2010]

Wow, this is all very good and thought provoking. I hate to say this Punchy, but I think that I agree with most of what Gnosis is saying. Not sure that I agree that you have "lost" your W, but most everything else.

I agree that on what you need to do. The idea of a tailor fit LRT is something that you should consider. What you are doing now is not working, that much we know.

I do agree with ColdWinter though that you should NOT confront your W anymore about EA. It hasn't gotten results in the past, so its unlikely that it will in the future.

What can you do to impletment LRT in your situation?

Denver_2010

[Gnosis]

Thanks Gnosis. This is really thought provoking.

You're welcome pal. It was meant to be.

I really need to absorb and process this.

Please do. Take your time there is no rush. When we rush into things we make mistakes. As I said above... weigh the consequences.

I do agree with you that I am fearful of what she may think if I stop doing these things.

In all the people I've helped the very first step is to get them to conquer their fears. Be honest with yourself and be careful.

This is a more aggressive approach then just doing nothing.

You've been doing nothing for 3 months now. I think you have had time to evaluate how effective it has been.

I am going to re-read your response and figure out where I need to go. Many thanks for this.

Sorry, but I just gave you and ColdWinter more to think about.

With that I'd like to add... don't lose the changes you have made for yourself. Part of this process is discovering who you are and who you would like to be.

Punchy you're a heck of a lot stronger than I you think you are. I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit for this. I'd like you to acknowledge this. To suppress yourself, improve yourself and keep on fighting for your M for as long as you have takes a lot of strength. Kudos to you.