Someone suggest H is having a MLC....I don't know?

[Queen_of_Swords]

SC, I am not real sure why you came to the MLC forum.

I came here because a) I was told there was more traffic here and perhaps my husband was having an MLC. Up until I posted here I hadn't considered it. Up until I read Cadet's links I didn't know for sure.

You seem to have made your decision regarding your sitch.

I've come to no decision yet. I'm still wavering between complete despair and hopelessness, and maybe I have a fighting chance to repair and remake a relationship that has lasted longer than anything I've done in my life, and perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel.

You have had some very wise, long term posters write to you. And I'm not real sure you have really heard what they had to say.

And I appreciate everything they and you have offered me. I understand a bit more of what is going on. What is it you think I am missing, if you don't mind?

Here's the thing. I think it's great that you are taking action to try to heal yourself. I know how important that is. I, too, had a very difficult time being kind to myself and believing in myself. I heard my mother's voice always telling me I'm not good enough.

So,when h told me he didnt want to be married anymore, well, all I heard was, I do not want you, you are unworthy.

Exactly! and more.

And I am sure that whatever program it is that you are on will be an enormous help. But, MLC is a horse of a color you have not ever seen before.

So, I think that the people here are just trying to help you understand what it is you are dealing with.

I hear what your h is telling you. And I am here to tell you I have heard the same words. So have countless others. It is part of their script. It is part of their crisis.

My h told me 3 years ago that he was not happy, that I was not good enough, that he has been unhappy for years, that he no longer finds me attractive, that I am not worth it, etc. Sound familiar?

Much too familiar and hurtful.

He has in the last year told me many times, I am the best person he knows, that he is still very unhappy, that he wasnt worthy of me.

Now, I am much further along on this path and I know that those feelings can all change tomorrow. It doesnt really matter. I know the truth now.

My point being, only you can decide if you dont want to do this anymore. And that's ok. But you came here for some help and we are trying to help you.

I want to do what is best for me, best for the kids. Divorce isn't it, but I will be truthful, I don't know that I have the personal strength, toughness, and thick skin I need to see this through with an uncertain result. I am doubtful about my ability. Again, I thank you for responding. I'm really floundering here.

Your timeline is short for this, believe it or not.

How is my timeline short? From my understanding in reading your responses and the links provided, MLC Is a long, painful, drawn out, infuriating, multilayer process.

Now, you can certainly go and find someone else. It's your life.

We were just trying to share, as people who have been walking this path a long time, what we know to be true.

And that is, that MLC affects people's abilities to be rational. It changes them in ways you never thought possible.

Your h very well may be done. Or he may not.

And that is not what matters. What matters is that you feel comfortable with whatever decision you make.

[courageous wife]

I want to do what is best for me, best for the kids. Divorce isn't it, but I will be truthful, I don't know that I have the personal strength, toughness, and thick skin I need to see this through with an uncertain result. I am doubtful about my ability. Again, I thank you for responding. I'm really floundering here.

HI SC

I think if you went back and read even a few posters threads from the beginning you will find that almost everyone was in the same place as you are in the above quote!

Read them from the beginning and you will see the strength that everyone has gained throughout this process!


You may not have it now, but it is within you if you want to work on it!

[Twink]

...but I will be truthful, I don't know that I have the personal strength, toughness, and thick skin I need to see this through with an uncertain result. I am doubtful about my ability.

Scylla, forgive me for jumping in here, but I have followed your thread.

This ^^^^ quote is exactly why we here believe you should slow down, make no decisions right now, and work on healing from the pain and building yourself back up. The point is not to "see it through," or even to consider the result right now. The point is to find that strength, that toughness, that resilience that will allow you to heal fully from this, find some measure of peace and acceptance, and go forward making decisions proactively rather than reactively. If you do not do this, it is likely that you will be forever angry and bitter about how you have been treated, and carry that baggage into any new relationship you enter into. That is not fair to anyone.

DB is a long-term process, but it is for you and you alone. It really has nothing to do with your H or your M. If your H comes around, and you still want him back, fine, but if he doesn't or you don't, you will be a whole and healthy person going forward.

Reread you thread, Scylla. You have many experienced (if not old, like me LOL) DBers posting to you, and they know what works. Open your heart and mind to see things in a different way. You will not be sorry.

[Jimbo]

...but I will be truthful, I don't know that I have the personal strength, toughness, and thick skin I need to see this through with an uncertain result. I am doubtful about my ability.

SC- This described me to a tee when I first started out here, too.

And since being here, I have been forced to confront my biggest fear....that fear being the uncertain result you speak of.

And I have succeeded. You can too.

Please don't sell yourself short.

[Grace_O]

SC,

Like Jimbo, you described me too. The truth is, you do have the strength, but you're scared. You mentioned getting older in one of your posts and alot of us know the fear of not being 20 or 30 or even 40 something. I'm in my 50's and raising 2 D's (one of whom has had some really serious psych stuff going on) and if I can do it, so can you. You really are stronger than you know.

Does that mean I don't think about having someone to share my blessings and burdens with? Of course I do. Sometimes the loneliness blindsides me, but that's only sometimes.

It isn't easy and there are times I really think I'm done with it. That's when I don't do (or say) anything and I just sit with it. When it reaches the point I don't come back from that thought, then I will act. Do I have a snowballs shance? Who knows and the truth is, it really doesn't matter so much anymore. I do what I do for myself and my D's.

HUGS

[handlingplanb]

You WILL be surprised at what you can do, and you will do it. Do you have a choice? Nope.

Last weekend I mounted the TV my son got for his birthday to his wall and re-wired the outlet and cable jack - moved it up close to the ceiling. Then I patched the 3 holes in the sheetrock (had to make 2 extra holes to track the wire.....) and got it painted. Granted, I did a lot of things before (my dad prepared me well - who knew!!) - but for about a year after the bomb I wasn't able to do much more than lay in bed and sob.

I have a ways to go - I am far from "healed," actually I go through bouts of being a basketcase (privately) - but I face the world as if I have it all together and those bouts are not as frequent as they once were.

I hope someday to be able to post that I am over it - that I am healed, but that's not me yet - and I am 3 years post bomb.

You can do this!

[PEI]

You are “I know, I knowing” your way through all of this. Go read PEI’s thread if you want to see another who did that. Boy she was stubborn and cerebral…

Yup. Was she ever. And defensive and explanitory and "misunderstood" too! LOL ...

S_C,

Honestly, I can't say anything to you that hasn't already been said, at least twice.

You are hurt and sad and broken and angry.

But your H didn't do that to you. You did. That's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth. It was my truth. I believed what he said about me because I had no self esteem, no identity, no sense of worth and no defined core prior to this crisis. But I thought I did. I was tough. I could handle anything. Manage anything. There is so much you say that I identify with. I'm not kidding. I also see the condesending tone Cat talks about with your responses and I too, like B-lady, wonder what you are here for???

My H felt completely emasculated. What came through to me, once I was ready to truly understand, is that his choice to not ever use his voice (completely confrontation avoidant - seriously, you should read my threads, some major parallels) means that he feels like he emasculated himself ... he can't deal with that, that would mean turning inward and he is no where near ready to deal with that. So he blames me. For all of it. Even now, he finds ways to make the parts of his life he doesn't like ... my fault. Now, it amuses me. I see it for what it is. And I hope for his sake that someday he does the work to dig out.

Trust me, finding someone else could feel like the answer in the short term. I tried it (you'll read about that in my thread too). But what I found after the fact was that there were parts of my journey I couldn't complete during that time. The two biggest being my fear of being alone and my need for external validation. Hard to fight a fear of being alone ... if you're not ... alone. The statistics on second marriages aren't good as it is, IF that's the road you end up walking, IF you find yourself, complete your journey and make a choice from a compassionate, healthy place to move on ... wouldn't you want the best shot you've got? Because that means you need to do the work first.

Re-read your thread S_C, you haven't been here long enough to know you've drawn the attention of some of our most experienced posters and some of the most amazing people I have come to know.

Stop. Take a breath. Step back and read your thread with clean eyes and an open mind.

And quit "I know, I knowing", you can't listen when this is what's going through your mind. I know.

Peace
PEI

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Scylla,

You're looking too far down the road. Look to tomorrow, and do that everyday.

[PEI]

My H felt completely emasculated. What came through to me, once I was ready to truly understand, is that his choice to not ever use his voice (completely confrontation avoidant - seriously, you should read my threads, some major parallels) means that he feels like he emasculated himself ... he can't deal with that, that would mean turning inward and he is no where near ready to deal with that. So he blames me. For all of it. Even now, he finds ways to make the parts of his life he doesn't like ... my fault. Now, it amuses me. I see it for what it is. And I hope for his sake that someday he does the work to dig out.

I need to expand on this because it makes it sound like I don't/didn't see the truth in how he felt. I do. My take charge, managerial approach to our life greatly contributed to how he felt. I remember one conversation we had (my stbxH has had various moments of clarity where we've had interesting conversations) where he told me that even when I WAS listening to him, he felt like I was only hearing as much as I needed to start formulating my rebuttal/defense in my mind and the rest of the time he could tell the wheels were turning and the I was no longer listening. That stopped me in my tracks. Now, my first instinct was to deny ... but ... it was true. So true. Unfortunately true. And it's something I will never forget.

[Queen_of_Swords]

But the longer I am alone dealing with the fallout, living along, making a life for myself without H, the less I can care, amd the more I lean to pessimism.
Don't get me wrong I still feel strong instances of great affection and love feelings for H, but they are becoming more and more rare. I'm shutting off and finding myself going into analytical/cerebral mode.

Scylla, there isn’t a person here who hasn’t been alone dealing with the fallout.

There isn’t a person here who didn’t want to quit from time to time.

There isn’t a person here who can’t empathize with you. To a degree…

Okay. I am not trying to discount or diminish anyone's feelings here by expressing my own.

In that 6 hour seminar I took, they made the example of this you have:
Your marital relationship
Your business relationship
Your parenting relationship
Your business/working relationship remains to some degree
Your parenting relationship in collaborative raising of your kids stays intact in most instances.
Your marital relationship is over.

I am willing to bet this was a seminar about surviving divorce.

No, it was a parenting after separation course. Attendance is mandatory by the provincial government to get a divorce along with a certificate of independant counsel. After a year of separation a divorce is pretty easy to get, so in a moment of preparing for the worst,I elected to go when I had time.

It is actually a great way to look at it. However, was there anything in there about building a new marital relationship down the road?

No, the focus of that course was just to get your head around the effects of fighting, hard feelings,pettiness, using kids as weapon etc. etc. ...on the kids, and to try to help separated or divorcing couples understand they still have a relationship that needs to be workable because of the kids. Nothing about building a new marital relationship.

What is your goal? Restoring your M or surviving D?

Restoring my M. I love the guy. Is it possible to rebuild something so battered? I don't know. Do I have the determination, inner strength, patience, and ability? I don't know that either. I do know I'm willing to work, I love the H & my children. I am willing to learn, adapt/change. I have changed already.

I see you starting to get defensive, and scoffing at DB ( since what your DB coach told you did not meet your desired immediate goal )

That's your interpretation of what I wrote. It's merely a statement of fact. 93% of communication is non-verbal.
There is no blame attached. I chose to follow the advice, I had hoped for a different outcome, but I knew this was a possibility.

Were you really prepared for this to be the outcome?

In my head, yes. H had already told me he wasn't coming back, he told me in that counselors office he didn't want to work on our M, he said had tried. ( this was pre DB). Emotionally was I ready? No, no way. It hurt and still does. At the same time I was in stasis for so long, not going forward, not going back, H living away, me being alone, something had to give, and it did.

It doesn't sound like it to me, and that is why it is unadvisable to ask for things related to a R, with a MLCer, unless you are really ready for the outcome either way.

He sent me a separation agreement he got off a government site somewhere,filled in his name on the form and wrote: "Fill in what you want." I didn't do a thing with it.

I wouldn't either. Unless you want a D. Let him do the work if that is what he needs to do.

Yes. I am not choosing to participate, I may be forced to by financial circumstances.

Some MLCer’s NEED to get divorced. It is part of their process. They do things that they think will make them happy, like leaving, and then they still aren’t happy. They believe that the D will be what finally brings them the happiness that they are so searching for. IF after that, they are still not happy, at least it can hopefully no longer be your (the LBS) fault.

Mach1, I'm sorry you see it as rebuke, it's certainly not intended that way. I'm doing my level best to answer questions here and in my own mind and heart honestly and completely.
I have done a lot of deconstruction of what's he's said to me and tried, really tried to see his POV. I think I've stated that if I saw me the way he sees me, I'd not want to stay married to me either. The picture is very distorted though and I think you know that, given your understanding of MLC which is better than my own right now.

Yes, you have stated that if you saw yourself as he did, you wouldn’t want to stay married to you either.

And I asked you how you have changed, what have you done or are doing to become someone he and you would want to be married to?

Which you haven’t really answered except to say that you have started this program.

Okay, so you wanted concrete changes.
I yell rarely anymore, I'm usually able to get a grip before I reach that point.
I use my actions a bit more than words( still work in progress)
I have reduced ny anxiety, I am more relaxed and flexible. I no longer compulsively clean or fidget or tap when I need to be still and listen.
I laugh more, I smile more.
I don't anger easily or often, when I am angered I am able to take a time out, pinpoint the source and defuse it pretty quickly.
I am pleasantly assertive more than aggressive.
I can listen better ( any keep my own mouth shut) and empathetically. ( Doesn't necessarily mean I read or comprehend better )

And from your perspective, his perspective is very distorted. Which it may or may not be. I don’t know you so I don’t know. However, if it is MLC, there is a lot of distortion surrounding a small amount of truth.

I see lots of explanation and defense of yourself. A lot of you have already or are doing what people are talking about. A lot of blaming you H for not appreciating everything that you did during your M. You are “I know, I knowing” your way through all of this. Go read PEI’s thread if you want to see another who did that. Boy she was stubborn and cerebral…

When you “I know” your way through this process, you are paying lipservice to it.

I have been told I am defensive. I don't know how I am being that way, I can't even see it. I don't know what it means, in terms of how it comes across in words. I don't know what the behaviour is to change with that.

What are you so afraid to look at?

Maybe that all the things you say and my H has said to me is absolutely the truth, and I am a horrible, emasculating, condescending, bitchy, unpleasant individual to be around or even talk to.

Mach1, that five year plan is the WORK. It is the digging deep, it is the finding of my core personality, it is the purging of the bad crap; the vicious memes, and poisonous life commandments I've been given that have dictated how I should be behave, what I MUST do to get approval and acceptance, and how I unthinkingly react to old triggers. It is rewiring my brain and getting rid of trauma programming from abuse.
It takes three years to rewire a neural network. It takes fuve years for the new neurons to have myelin sheathing thick enough to make it "stick", and the old neurons to die, shrink and be absorbed for the new network to take it's place.

Ok so you have given yourself five years to get your crap together, but you won’t give your H even two.

At this point, you need this time as much as he does.

I see your point.

Your response to Mach1 was filled with condesenscion. It was filled with argument. Maybe that is not how you intended it, but it is how it came across. Verbal communication is only 7 percent of communication patterns, however, it is 100 percent of the communication we have here.

Ok, I accept that is how you see what I wrote. If I may ask, can you tell me how am I being condescending?

Read your posts. Read the responses to your posts. As an outsider.

I have read and re-read this thread several times. I can see how it can seen seen as argumentative.
Is using the words however, though, although, and but the part that is being seen by others as defensive?

I guess in seeking to clarify things I just piss people off?

How do you think you come across?

You just told me. How I think I come off is clearly not how I am coming off.