What should I do?

[Forrest Gump]

Scylla_Charibdis

My post was in no way meant to be a slap.. or to discourage you from posting. Was it over the top?.. Maybe. I like to challenge people and I am very sarcastic. Your post was very good and solid advice. It was heartfelt and well thought out. I could "see" you put some effort into it. I would say.. I like your "heart". It is (heart) something I look for when I post to someone.

I am a "Newcomer" but I am not a "Newbie". I understand the dynamic that is plaguing my household. I see both sides.

The reaction to my post to you is very similar to the reaction I get at home when trying to "discuss" things. The point I was trying to make with my little dig at you is that when one persons "needs" are placed higher than the others "needs" this will happen. My outlook on life seems "dirty" or "nasty" to someone like yourself. It is really hard to argue or get a point across when what you hold close is looked down upon. It is just as strange to me that you place so much value in the "kids".

With that said.. I asked you some questions and would really like you to answer them. Think about why I asked them.

Just remember I am sarcastic.. and always smiling.

Well I was smirking a little bit when I was posting to FB2.

[Forrest Gump]

"Only this time, none of you seems to have the energy and the resolve to work through this. Last time it was you, right?"

I think everytime it has been me. I am stuck. It is not totally unexpected. The lack of effort on her part has been just as lackluster as she envisions mine.

"And there is a gap there because you feel you do the work but you dont get the educated response you should."

That would be a very good description of the situation as I "see" it.

"Try to approach her with open mind, fresh attitude. Pick yourself up Forrest. Our state of mind is ALWAYS, cruicial in these cases. You have a choice, make the good one every single time for a while. Invest in little things, little things do matter."

I feel like I am doing just that. My activity level is down because I feel I need to "see" some movement on her part. At the beginning of 2010 (The Turning Point) we had a conversation and I was a bit blindsided by it. She indicated that she realized that we needed to get help and asked if I would be up for going. I indicated that I would. I also left that ball in her court. Nothing happened. Here we are. Her solution to the issues seems to be to tell me to get out. Cheeseless Tunnels.

"I dont think it's weird you are not attracted to her. Being rejected for too long can do that to humans. It's a protective mechanism. "

Sounds a lot like I Love You.. But I am not In Love with you.

It is silly how we can have the same walk.. and be so close to each other.. but still miss it somehow.

We got here together.. we will see if we get out together.

Off we go...

[Forrest Gump]

"OK. No alcohol and porn for the next 30 days. Be all ears. You are capable of much more than this actually!"

I will get back to you and SG the Mod. I think it would take a long post to say what I have to say.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Scylla_Charibdis

My post was in no way meant to be a slap.. or to discourage you from posting. Was it over the top?.. Maybe. I like to challenge people and I am very sarcastic. Your post was very good and solid advice. It was heartfelt and well thought out. I could "see" you put some effort into it. I would say.. I like your "heart". It is (heart) something I look for when I post to someone.

I am a "Newcomer" but I am not a "Newbie". I understand the dynamic that is plaguing my household. I see both sides.

The reaction to my post to you is very similar to the reaction I get at home when trying to "discuss" things. The point I was trying to make with my little dig at you is that when one persons "needs" are placed higher than the others "needs" this will happen. My outlook on life seems "dirty" or "nasty" to someone like yourself. It is really hard to argue or get a point across when what you hold close is looked down upon. It is just as strange to me that you place so much value in the "kids".

If you want me to explain the value of the kids I will. Just as sex is pretty much etched in your brain as a primary biological drive, protection and nurturing of children is ours.
It doesn't mean we love our men less, or find sex distasteful, it is OUR primary biological drive. When you value the children you had part in creating, play with them, laugh with them, cuddle them, you're on the same team with us, you value our efforts in raising decent human beings. We feel warmly affectionate to you.

I am not placing her needs above yours Forest. Someone has to start the dynamic spinning. You, as the male take the lead here, she's not going to for some simple biologically based/psychosexual reasons.
I don't think ML is dirty or nasty by any stretch. Your focus is there, you are male. I understand that.

With that said.. I asked you some questions and would really like you to answer them. Think about why I asked them.

Just remember I am sarcastic.. and always smiling.

Well I was smirking a little bit when I was posting to FB2.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Scylla_Charibdis I'm going to write something that I have learned.
I haven't read your thread so forgive me.

In a NORMAL and healthy female/male committed relationship there is a dynamic going on.
The dynamic is this: Men are 10% emotionally based, and 90% sexually based. Women are 10% sexually based, and 90% emotionally based.

When you ML , your bucket that is full 90% and empty that 10% gets filled by the 10% she has available, and you feel connected and loving towards her.
he reverse is true for her. If you give her that 10% of emotional connection she needs, you fill her emotional bucket to 100%, and she feels connected and loving to you!

Then a happy little circle continues to go 'round and 'round and you both get what you need. This is easier to see as a diagram, so I hope I make some sense to you. If not I will describe how to draw it, if you are a visually based learner.

The challenge for you is this. I feel emotionally connected to you by doing it to you and with you acting like you like it. That's primarily how I get emotionally 'fed'. You don't have to problem solve, and you don't have to do it for hours. Although the first time I do this you're gonna wish I would stop. My need to do you will diminish the more you allow it until it becomes natural and comfortable and shouldn't require more than 5 minutes of your full attention per day.

Sorry... had to do it.

Turn about is fair play I suppose.

But.. to answer your questions.

"D'ya think you could initiate a conversation, really be involved and an active listener?"

I can listen.. as long as it is not pointing out how I am failing.

This is a situation I'm all too familiar with. You hear criticism and buzzsawing - cutting you down at the ankles. She's trying to get your attention and not in the best way. I'm having difficulty changing the way I approach things with males too.
We do that when we deal with our kids. We know you're not our children, but switching gears is a little difficult.
See, we women think we're "helping" when we do that, not really knowing we're hurting ourselves and our cause with the men we love so much.

"The let her initiate for the "no pressure part" This may take some time. I'm not saying it's an instant solution."

Is 4 years long enough?

4 years? Oh wow...no wonder you're ready to call it a day. I didn't know it was that long! In that case I think she needs to just do it, even if she's not feeling it...she then will feel like doing more of it eventually.

"Did you know the Hebrew word for love means " to give of oneself"? Can you give of yourself without asking for a return right now?"

I don't know that I knew the Hebrew. Describe "give of yourself". I don't want anything in return.

That's giving of yourself.

"If your wife's emotional bucket gets filled by seeing the children you created together with their loving Dad enjoying their presence, and interacting together, then try..."

What if my "vision" of that does not meet her expectations?

Have you asked her how she believes your interactions with your kids should look, given that you "play" with children differently than she would? Have you asked he what her expectations are?

"It's not the material things that matter here...it's your TIME."

Define "TIME" for me more clearly.

The time here would be the dedicated 20 minutes or longer you would spend focused and interacting with your kids and only your kids. Not multitasking, not texting while saying "uhmm" as you look at your Blackberry screen and dash off a text. Not being mesmerized by a screen of some sort.

Hope I answered your questions sufficiently.

[Queen_of_Swords]

Bah I will get the hang of this nested quoting business, eventually sorry everyone!

[Kalni]

Forrest,
can you please give us some info about the sitch? Like what you said about you sleeping in different rooms etc. How ar eyour schedules? Did you ever manage to find time alone?

I agree about women and kids, I even felt guilty when I read S&C's post about it. Cause I was like that and I AM NOT anymore. Because I now, truly believe that the BEST thing I can do for my kids is to be HAPPY with their dad. PERIOD. And that's something I learnt the hard way 3 years ago and again 2 months ago when my dad died. He made it crystal clear to all of us, in words, how my mom has always been his no1 priority. We always felt it was us, but that was the amgic of their relationship and the magic of my dad as a father and man. How does that help you, you may ask me. I dont know
K

[sgctxok]

Kalni--
I agree. It doesn't get better than that.

[fb2]

And one more action item: do a 180 on the sarcasm. It will make you easier to understand, and saves time.

[awest1217]

I agree with K and fb2.

With fb2 I will say that if you are as sarcastic in real life as you are hear that could be the problem. I don't know what you are like in real life and may not be that way at all, but if you use the same method of communication I know I would feel like I am constantly beneath you and never someone you cared about. It could be your W's problem with the kids. You have older children I believe like junior high/high school. That age group loves to use sarcasm, but will get hurt very badly very quickly when it is used on them (from my experience as a high school teacher).

Make sure you are communicating and opening up. Sarcasm usually takes a conversation to a battle very quickly and in my personal life usually leaves the other person feeling humiliated, which will shut everything down quickly.