2Step, Sorry to hear about your frame of mind right now. But, it is normal. I spoke at length about this with my MC and he said it is OK.
For the first four weeks after my W left, I cried, missed work, didn't eat, didn't sleep and could not function. But around week 6 after we both went "dark," I started to get angry. Same thing as you, I was pissed and felt like I didn't deserved this. My MC told me that "anger" is one of the stages of grief and it is perfectly normal to experience this. He actually said that not only is it normal, but that I should not deny myself the anger. He stated that if I didn't spend some time angry, I would never be able to move to the next stage or get better. He told me that when I would get angry, I should either stand in front of the mirror and say all the things I was feeling or write a letter to my W. So, I did what he said and it really, really helped. I said some of the most awful things to the mirror. I wrote numerous letters laced with profanity. But, when I was finished with the letter, I would print it out and put it in a box hidden in my closet. He did say I could NEVER send any of the letters to my W or anyone. The letters were for me only. He told me to let the anger flow, but NEVER, NEVER, NEVER in front of my W. Also, he wanted me to make sure the anger never reached a level where it became dangerous to myself or others. His advice worked perfectly.
While in "anger" is really when I began taking care of myself. I joined a gym, which really helped with the anger. When I would get mad, I would go work out for two hours. I would burn up my anger on the dumbells. It is a double-bonus. I look better and I am not hurting anyone with my anger. The anger was good as it kept me warm at night and motivated.
But, I do have some bad news. It does fade. A couple of weeks ago, I started changing again. I have been much more depressed lately. I told my MC about this and he assured me this is also very normal. He told me that the anger will not and should not last forever. If it does, I would be in trouble. I think the anger fading is why I have been able to have such good meetings with my W.
So, try it buddy. Write some letters, scream at the mirror, hit the weights, go out into the woods and break something with a sledgehammer. But, there are two things you shouldn't do. Don't try to squish or hide the anger. It will eat you up. Two, don't ever, ever, ever turn this on your W or anyone else.
Keep me updated. I will gladly share with you how I coped with this. It is natural, so let it happen.
B.I.T.S.
FOBD
Me: 39 W: 36 T: 15 yrs M: 9 yrs S: 09/10
So you can get on with your search, baby And I can get on with mine And maybe someday we will find, That it wasn't really wasted time...
Something that jumped out to me in your story was that your mother lived with you & W. I saw where you said that W always felt it was three against one when she was there. I assume that was you, the D, and the third had to be your mother. So, how much did your mother have a part in your lives?
Whenever the W ask the H to have his mother move out of their house....and he doesn't do it, then the W feels like she is not his priority, and she doesn't feel respected. Many times a man thinks it's just easier to take sides with his mother, but it is devastating for the W.
I just think that your mom had more effect on things than maybe you've said. Did your W tell you that your mother was controlling your lives, and things like that?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
FOBD and MJ are giving you really good insight. And I have experienced about 95% of what they are talking about myself. FOBD's MC is correct too... these are the stages of grief that we are all going through. You probably don't want to hear that you are going through that bc the last stage is acceptance. Acceptance may be seen as accepting that your M to W is over. What my MC told me when I posed this thought to him, is that we are going through the stages of grief to get to acceptance that our 'old' M to W is over. That doesn't change the infinite possibilities that the future may hold. Beside, do you really want your old M to W?
My answer to that Q was 'no', I don't. I want a new and much better M to my W. That is what I want.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Thank you for coming back and giving a woman's perspective. You are absolutely right about the situation. Let's take a walk down memory lane so that you can get the full picture.
My Mom is 69 moved in when she was 65 with us, at my W request. There were many times my W complained about my mom and many times I felt like I played referee between the two. My mom's perspective was that I always took my W side and my W perspective was I always took my moms. On at least three occasions I was going to talk to my mom to move to one of my brothers or my sister house but my W stopped me, not only did she stop me she was very adamant about it.
As time moved on she complained and would say " I just want to vent I don't want you to do anything" so I would listen. My mom on several occasions approached my W and asked if the arguments were between us were because of her and my W would always assure her that it had nothing to do with her it was between me and her.
Two weeks prior to my W leaving my mom decided to leave but by this time it was too little too late. I will not hide the fact that my mother living with us was a huge part in our breakdown but there were truly very little options for me. For the past six months I had grown tired of the constant arguing and began to withdraw a lot I am not blind to that.
That is why one of my 180's was to move my mom out. I told my W I needed this time to be about my D and me and this had nothing to do with her. At the time she said 'it won't last. If I was to come back it would just go back to the same thing" I told her my M was too important and that it would NEVER happen. Keep in mind however that she said that back in December before she filed. The longer she is away the stronger and more sure of herself she seems. Maybe it is just a cover up because if I know this woman she is hurting inside as bad as I am only difference is she is angry and anger keeps a lot of those other emotions from coming up.
Sandi, I know that the situation she was in was a difficult one but I did try to change it on numerous occasions. This is a big part of the guilt I carry with me.
Well it's Sunday night and as I mentioned I was away this weekend for some training. I was busy both days and normally when I am away I would always look forward to come home to my W but today I started to feel despair when I realized I would be coming to a empty house. So I thought a lot and reflected on my situation.
I am upset and sad at the same time. It is clear most of us are here because for one reason or another we have had a problem communicating with our spouse at some level; in other words we have made mistakes. I am no different, perhaps I have made a little more than most but I have been honest and open with all of you. Today on my way home I began to think why I was pursuing this any further and what was I truly trying to get out of this.
The truth of the matter is when W first left I was relieved and felt ok about it, I was feeling just as tired and frustrated with the constant arguing as she was. It wasn't till late November that I really began to feel sadness and by December I was really down in the dumps. January is the month that I have cried the most with today being no different. I begin to get angry. My vows mean something to me, always have. Do they mean less to her? Even at the height of our arguments I never thought of D but at times I must admit that I thought maybe we should separate. Why then do I feel worse today than I did two months ago or even a month ago?
Is it possible that she is going through the same emotions? Is it possible that she feels worse today than she did at first? My honest assessment is no. I think she feels better. She has been able to detach and I haven't. This is something I have struggled with. Of course she has a new apt, a new job, and even a new state as for me I am in the same house and have changed very little since she left include a D who is devastated and I have a constant reminder of the pain in my life.
When I look closer however, I realize that I am not totally to blame for this breakdown. Has she made an effort to find solution base options to save the M? No. Has she said let's stop the D and see what happens? No. Has she said let me make a real effort to understand why he acted a certain way as I have done? No. She has admitted to making mistakes, but if both people have openly said we have made mistakes why wouldn't both people then look for ways to address them if there was still love there?
Right now she feels in control, this I know for sure, and that is something she hasn't felt in a long time. I mention all this because I am starting to doubt whether me agreeing with all the "injustice" I have done is really a smart tactic at all. I know I am making changes for myself not for her and believe me I am but ultimately all of us have begun these changes with the single goal of saving our marriage.
If agree with the fact that I practically "pushed her out", what am I really saying? I would think if I am the other person I am thinking "Thank you, I thought so to and that is why I am not going back" If I agree with the fact that I "criticized too much" why would she want to come back to that. The more I agree with her the more I strengthen her position and the more she is justified in leaving. Why in the world would you want to save your marriage if you are justified in leaving?
I mention this because even though we all want our spouses back if we are honest they have made mistakes also. Leaving is a sign of surrender and failure in my eyes. It means to me that their love had an expiration date on it. I find it unfair that I sit here crying in my room and nursing a 11 yr old girl because somebody thought so little of us that they decided to walk out of our home. I have found this website and I have found the books and I have done the DBcoaching. Could she not have done the same?
Even after the fact did she not do any soul searching? Over all I did the best job I could as a husband and I can honestly say that everything I did was with the intention to make her happy. Even after ten years together I could not wait to get home to see my W after work and even after ten years I would tell her in bed that I was a very lucky man and that she was the only woman for me. Do these words fall on deaf ears? I made a commitment that means something to me.
Any thoughts on this point of view? It just seems that the more I agree with her and validate her points the more gleeful she becomes and the surer she feels she has done the right thing.
One more thing (sorry everyone as you can see my mind is going crazy tonight)
Can I really maintain a friendship with a person who has caused so much grief in my life? I have NEVER felt this much pain I have NEVER cried over something or someone as much as I have cried this month. NEVER! Can the heart forgive that? I know only I can answer that but just wanted to get it off my chest.
Well it's Sunday night and as I mentioned I was away this weekend for some training. I was busy both days and normally when I am away I would always look forward to come home to my W but today I started to feel despair when I realized I would be coming to a empty house. So I thought a lot and reflected on my situation.
I am upset and sad at the same time. It is clear most of us are here because for one reason or another we have had a problem communicating with our spouse at some level; in other words we have made mistakes. I am no different, perhaps I have made a little more than most but I have been honest and open with all of you. Today on my way home I began to think why I was pursuing this any further and what was I truly trying to get out of this.
The truth of the matter is when W first left I was relieved and felt ok about it, I was feeling just as tired and frustrated with the constant arguing as she was. It wasn't till late November that I really began to feel sadness and by December I was really down in the dumps. January is the month that I have cried the most with today being no different. I begin to get angry. My vows mean something to me, always have. Do they mean less to her? Even at the height of our arguments I never thought of D but at times I must admit that I thought maybe we should separate. Why then do I feel worse today than I did two months ago or even a month ago?
Is it possible that she is going through the same emotions? Is it possible that she feels worse today than she did at first? My honest assessment is no. I think she feels better. She has been able to detach and I haven't. This is something I have struggled with. Of course she has a new apt, a new job, and even a new state as for me I am in the same house and have changed very little since she left include a D who is devastated and I have a constant reminder of the pain in my life.
When I look closer however, I realize that I am not totally to blame for this breakdown. Has she made an effort to find solution base options to save the M? No. Has she said let's stop the D and see what happens? No. Has she said let me make a real effort to understand why he acted a certain way as I have done? No. She has admitted to making mistakes, but if both people have openly said we have made mistakes why wouldn't both people then look for ways to address them if there was still love there?
Right now she feels in control, this I know for sure, and that is something she hasn't felt in a long time. I mention all this because I am starting to doubt whether me agreeing with all the "injustice" I have done is really a smart tactic at all. I know I am making changes for myself not for her and believe me I am but ultimately all of us have begun these changes with the single goal of saving our marriage.
If agree with the fact that I practically "pushed her out", what am I really saying? I would think if I am the other person I am thinking "Thank you, I thought so to and that is why I am not going back" If I agree with the fact that I "criticized too much" why would she want to come back to that. The more I agree with her the more I strengthen her position and the more she is justified in leaving. Why in the world would you want to save your marriage if you are justified in leaving?
I mention this because even though we all want our spouses back if we are honest they have made mistakes also. Leaving is a sign of surrender and failure in my eyes. It means to me that their love had an expiration date on it. I find it unfair that I sit here crying in my room and nursing a 11 yr old girl because somebody thought so little of us that they decided to walk out of our home. I have found this website and I have found the books and I have done the DBcoaching. Could she not have done the same?
Even after the fact did she not do any soul searching? Over all I did the best job I could as a husband and I can honestly say that everything I did was with the intention to make her happy. Even after ten years together I could not wait to get home to see my W after work and even after ten years I would tell her in bed that I was a very lucky man and that she was the only woman for me. Do these words fall on deaf ears? I made a commitment that means something to me.
Any thoughts on this point of view? It just seems that the more I agree with her and validate her points the more gleeful she becomes and the surer she feels she has done the right thing.
BITS
2Step, I fear we will never know. My W tells me she doesn't believe she was ever in love with me. She has had love for me, but she also believes that we don't have enough in common and that we've truly never been "connected". I find all of this hard to believe, but at the same time these are her feelings. Who am I to tell her she's wrong?
Like you said we are changing, and truly want a chance to fix the things we did wrong in the R, but why don't they? In my case, my W says she's been trying for years. The truth is I believe she's been trying to change me for years, she's has looked at her self to understand if she could change something that would help me. That's the biggest difference we have found by finding this website and reading the books - we understood that we can only change ourselves, not our W's.
Is it too late? I'm not sure. It certainly feels like it at times, but as I've told myself numerous times. As long I still feel love for my W, what is the alternative? All I can do is continue to be a stronger, more thoughtful and understanding person - and hope that my W softens, and finds it in herself to forgive me and give us a chance.
My biggest fear is my W will go through with this, we'll sell our house and finally seperate - and in a period of time she'll come to regret her decision. Can I go through all of this again?
I keep telling myself. This is life, and life isn't easy. Hopefully I can do the things and make decisions that will make my life somewhat easier and more enjoyable.
BITS SIC
Me - 34 W - 33 M - 8 years T - 15 years D7, D5, D2 Bomb Nov 10/2010 "I'm not happy and INILWY" W Staying for the kids Mar 13/2011
You are exactly right. As for what your W is saying, sometimes people on the outside can see much clearer than those involved in the situation. I don't know you personally or your W but I bet you have opened up with us more than most in your life so therefore I know quite a bit. I don't believe what your W says, even though I think she believes it at the time. Those are words of someone who is in pain and has not taken the time to look in the mirror yet.
On your second paragraph I agree again. I believe she did feel as though she tried for years and eventually gave up. Now I see that how she could feel that way and feel exhausted from all this but did she really try? I felt when she left I had tried everything also, then I find you guys MWD and a dozen other books and realize I did not try at all. All I did was the same thing in a different way and got the same results.
On your third paragraph we are on the same sheet of music. At times I feel as though it is too late and other times I can imagine my W and talking six months from now about how close we came to jumping off the cliff. Is this denial? If it is then I am much further behind on the grief scale than I would like to be.
My biggest fear of letting go is the same as yours. When I heal and have moved on with my life IF W ever wants to try again will I want to? I know I can't go through this again. I have collapsed as a man and this grief I dare not repeat. Will I love her again? Will I be able to truly forgive? I don't know. That thought really scares me. My future without her seems bleak at times but how do I detach and still have hope? I guess at that point the burden of reconciliation is with her.
