I wish I could help and suggest THE solution. We both know there isnt such a thing, in most cases. Right now you seem stuck. Only this time, none of you seems to have the energy and the resolve to work through this. Last time it was you, right?
The only thing that comes to my mind is...go back to basics. You have all the knowledge, you ve read tons of sitches here, articles, rules, etc etc But I bet she doenst. And there is a gap there because you feel you do the work but you dont get the educated response you should.
Go back to basics. Shake the negative feelings off. Start by forcing yourself to see what's good in your wife, your life, your M. You've been together for so long, there are many things, I am sure, you can recall that are positives. But you wont find any if you are in the WA spouse mode. You'll be just another typical spouse trying to find reasons to base his leaving. YOu knwo how that goes...
Try to approach her with open mind, fresh attitude. Pick yourself up Forrest. Our state of mind is ALWAYS, cruicial in these cases. You have a choice, make the good one every single time for a while. Invest in little things, little things do matter.
I dont think it's weird you are not attracted to her. Being rejected for too long can do that to humans. It's a protective mechanism.
The hardest part would be to bring her on board as well. Creative positive interactions could wake her up. I am here if you need to talk, love K
That would be open for discussion. She has "grown" into the caring mother. That is what is important. When I am "lacking" there is the issue. I am not sure that is a great "judge" of what our family should be. We differ a bit on what the "family" should be.
"Must you both grow the at the same rate and in the same direction and see things the same way?"
No. But if she thinks she has left me behind.. I am not sure how to change that. If you think it.. you are making movements to "encourage" that thought.
"You "think" you've grown too?"
Maybe. My perspective has changed. To be honest I am tired of playing this silly game. After 17 years it should not be this hard.
"All it takes is one of you to make that choice; in which case the other then has no choice - like murder. I would question it even it both of you made the choice - like murder-suicide. They even say its good for the kids."
FB2.. have you been drinking?
Stop trying to prove a point and get in the game. Give me something I can work with. Your hostility towards me is very apparent.. and I understand it to a point. But it is somewhat.. well.. time wasting. I enjoy it.. but I feel like I could use my time wore wisely. I am sure D4MIL is wondering why I did not respond to her second post.
You keep posting here.. I like it.. just not sure where it is going.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Scylla_Charibdis I'm going to write something that I have learned. I haven't read your thread so forgive me.
In a NORMAL and healthy female/male committed relationship there is a dynamic going on. The dynamic is this: Men are 10% emotionally based, and 90% sexually based. Women are 10% sexually based, and 90% emotionally based.
When you ML , your bucket that is full 90% and empty that 10% gets filled by the 10% she has available, and you feel connected and loving towards her. he reverse is true for her. If you give her that 10% of emotional connection she needs, you fill her emotional bucket to 100%, and she feels connected and loving to you!
Then a happy little circle continues to go 'round and 'round and you both get what you need. This is easier to see as a diagram, so I hope I make some sense to you. If not I will describe how to draw it, if you are a visually based learner.
The challenge for you is this. I feel emotionally connected to you by doing it to you and with you acting like you like it. That's primarily how I get emotionally 'fed'. You don't have to problem solve, and you don't have to do it for hours. Although the first time I do this you're gonna wish I would stop. My need to do you will diminish the more you allow it until it becomes natural and comfortable and shouldn't require more than 5 minutes of your full attention per day.
Sorry... had to do it.
But.. to answer your questions.
"D'ya think you could initiate a conversation, really be involved and an active listener?"
I can listen.. as long as it is not pointing out how I am failing.
"The let her initiate for the "no pressure part" This may take some time. I'm not saying it's an instant solution."
Is 4 years long enough?
"Did you know the Hebrew word for love means " to give of oneself"? Can you give of yourself without asking for a return right now?"
I don't know that I knew the Hebrew. Describe "give of yourself". I don't want anything in return.
"If your wife's emotional bucket gets filled by seeing the children you created together with their loving Dad enjoying their presence, and interacting together, then try..."
What if my "vision" of that does not meet her expectations?
"It's not the material things that matter here...it's your TIME."
Define "TIME" for me more clearly.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Scylla_Charibdis I'm going to write something that I have learned. I haven't read your thread so forgive me.
In a NORMAL and healthy female/male committed relationship there is a dynamic going on. The dynamic is this: Men are 10% emotionally based, and 90% sexually based. Women are 10% sexually based, and 90% emotionally based.
When you ML , your bucket that is full 90% and empty that 10% gets filled by the 10% she has available, and you feel connected and loving towards her. he reverse is true for her. If you give her that 10% of emotional connection she needs, you fill her emotional bucket to 100%, and she feels connected and loving to you!
Then a happy little circle continues to go 'round and 'round and you both get what you need. This is easier to see as a diagram, so I hope I make some sense to you. If not I will describe how to draw it, if you are a visually based learner.
The challenge for you is this. I feel emotionally connected to you by doing it to you and with you acting like you like it. That's primarily how I get emotionally 'fed'. You don't have to problem solve, and you don't have to do it for hours. Although the first time I do this you're gonna wish I would stop. My need to do you will diminish the more you allow it until it becomes natural and comfortable and shouldn't require more than 5 minutes of your full attention per day.
Sorry... had to do it.
But.. to answer your questions.
"D'ya think you could initiate a conversation, really be involved and an active listener?"
I can listen.. as long as it is not pointing out how I am failing.
"The let her initiate for the "no pressure part" This may take some time. I'm not saying it's an instant solution."
Is 4 years long enough?
"Did you know the Hebrew word for love means " to give of oneself"? Can you give of yourself without asking for a return right now?"
I don't know that I knew the Hebrew. Describe "give of yourself". I don't want anything in return.
"If your wife's emotional bucket gets filled by seeing the children you created together with their loving Dad enjoying their presence, and interacting together, then try..."
What if my "vision" of that does not meet her expectations?
"It's not the material things that matter here...it's your TIME."
Define "TIME" for me more clearly.
Slap taken and felt. I'll keep my peace.
BITS Me-51, WAS-52 Kids 2 M-26yrs, H.left 2009, 2 more Bomb drops, Reconnection spring 2013 Change is inevitable, personal growth is a choice. Love is a action and choice you make, every day.
You have my highest level of respect. The hardest thing to do is to piece and build the relationship from the ground up again. We feel we shouldn't have to, and yet in some sense, we do it new every day anyway.
That's where you are. You are faced with balancing your own needs and her needs, expecting to be truly loved and accepted unconditionally, and willing to give her unconditional love. And the truth is--none of us really know what it's like to live with you or with her.
We don't know the level of your alcohol use or what you are like when you drink. YOU might not know what it's like for her when you drink. The same with the porn. What is it like for her? It's completely worthwhile to find that out from her. At worst case, if you chose not to work through this, you would have a real understanding of the impact of your actions. At best case, you build the most loving intimate understanding kind of glue between the two of you.
I'm incredibly humbled by your honesty. Excessive use of alcohol has touched almost all our lives, whether it's us individually or a loved one, or both. The same is true for me--in both instances--I lost my father to alcoholism, we're Irish and it's all over the family, and I love wine, although I won't touch beer. If I have more than two glasses, G is irritated with me. It doesn't mean you have bad character if your alcohol use makes your wife uncomfortable. It does make it an issue between the two of you. To say she should just love you and accept it as part of you, is probably fair, not fair, realistic and unrealistic at the same time. She does love you or she wouldn't be around you. She knows the hero you are, the same guy we see on the board. She wants better for you and herself--because, well, she knows how good it can be, and you can't deliver on that with the alcohol. And unfortunately, you have to make a decision. Actually, not one. LOTS of decisions about this -- you have to make them every single day.
Same thing with the porn--everyone has an acceptable level. Same thing with her lack of involvement with sex. The two MIGHT be intertwined--only you, and her know the levels.
Forrest--you've been willing to talk about 400lb purple gorilla with the pink dancing shoes--that's the thing we seldom do here on this board. We blame our partner. We talk about our feelings. We don't say HEY--BUT THERE'S THIS--which is what you did.
I respect you. Enormously.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"You're posting here, so there is still something in you that feels it is worth the effort, I think."
Part of me thinks that it still is. I am a reasonably creative guy. So when I find myself out of ideas.. I post. I am not the typical "stitch". I am not acting crazy or fighting with her. I have an appointment setup and she has agreed to go. I have researched apartments and counselors. I have tried to talk with her about things. Some conversations have gone well some have not. I have been finishing up things around the house that had fallen by the wayside. I am sleeping in another room at this point and we don't really interact much currently. December was tuff for me.. especially with all this and the memories of times past. I am just simply out of ideas.
I have been accused of not documenting things here. That won't happen this time.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
